Happy Fathers day Illegal Aliens!

[~JC~]

Together

Are you suggesting kicking the parents out of the country and letting the baby stay? Or kicking the parents and the newborn babies out together?


Definitely together. Letting the kid stay would just make us pay for its' upbringing. Ad it's incarceration.

(I'm sorry, sometimes I just can't lay off the high fast ones. You say something that is intellectually challenged, and I just have to reply)

 

[Davidt1]

A hospital encounter with an illegal immigrant

I took my mom to the emergency room at a local hospital two days ago. She shared a room a Spanish-speaking patient. After the doctor treated him, a hospital staff came and explained the payment options to him. She said, "If you are undocumented, the hospital will take care of everything. If you are a legal immigrant, you have to pay. If you are US citizen, you have to pay." He mumbled something to the affect that he was undocumented. He was quickly released from the hospital. He didn't even have to fill out any paperwork and didn't have to pay a dime for the treatment. I have read about illegal immigrants receiving care for free, but to witness it in person was an unsettling experience.

I don't like it one bit. If I have to go the ER without insurance, I might not be able to pay for the treatment. Yet, this illegal immigrant received his care for free at expense of the American tax payers.

It's not fair. I don't want illegal immigrants here.

 

[cyberbri]

Can you please tell me how illegal immigrants are a direct burden on your life/living? I'm being serious here. I want to understand that aspect to the debate.
Poor CyberBri. Sometimes the clarity is just too blinding. How is it that illegals get their care while others in the US (legals) don't??? Because I work for free. Not that I want to. Not that you want to, but you probably have no social mandate for what you do (in fact, your responses are so immature, I suspect that you are a student with no job, I'm helping you too). But I am a physician, and 10% of my yearly care is provided for free. And I live in a heavily migrant area, and I'm pretty clear where that free care goes. Not to mention that my life is made more difficult by the winter migration south, which allows me to provide care only in the summer. Oh if disease were only so forgiving. Each year, I'm a bit farther behind, at a bit more free care on my part. Don't worry yourself, though. You will never feel it.

I'd thank you for your reply, except you didn't answer "How is it that illegals get their care while others in the US (legals) don't?"

And except you took it to a personal insult level. If you had left that out, it would have been a perfectly civil response to a civil question. I try to stay civil and keep the discussion about (debating) ideas. But I guess that just seems immature to you. I'll refrain from calling you an arrogant sob.

It's not like it matters, but actually I'm 29, have a wife and 2 kids that I support on my single salary, and am doing pretty well for myself here in Silicon Valley, thank you very much.

 

[cyberbri]

I took my mom to the emergency room at a local hospital two days ago. She shared a room a Spanish-speaking patient. After the doctor treated him, a hospital staff came and explained the payment options to him. She said, "If you are undocumented, the hospital will take care of everything. If you are a legal immigrant, you have to pay. If you are US citizen, you have to pay." He mumbled something to the affect that he was undocumented. He was quickly released from the hospital. He didn't even have to fill out any paperwork and didn't have to pay a dime for the treatment. I have read about illegal immigrants receiving care for free, but to witness it in person was an unsettling experience.

I don't like it one bit. If I have to go the ER without insurance, I might not be able to pay for the treatment. Yet, this illegal immigrant received his care for free at expense of the American tax payers.

It's not fair. I don't want illegal immigrants here.

It's the system that is broke, then.
If they told you that you could be seen for free if you didn't have any insurance, what would you do? Say, "Nah, that's okay, send me the bill. I don't want to be a burden on the US taxpayers?"

 

[Sheep]

I got Red from this thread...

C'mon mods, get rid of this stupid system.

SheepStar

 

[markw]

"It's the system that is broke, then." Well, DUH! That's what we've been saying!

It's the system that is broke, then.

I see three ways to fix it.

1) Stop all benefits for illegals to remove any incentive to come here.

2) Stop all illegals from entering or, should they manage to sneak in anyway, oust 'em as soon as they're caught. If your fingerprints and SS# don't match or aren't on file, say goodnight Gracie.

3) Fine the bejeezus out of anyone who helps, hides or hires 'em. ...or lock'em up or deport 'em

I'm sure you've got other alternatives.

 

[Geno]

To MarkW

“To be is to do” - Immanuel Kant

“To do is to be” - Jean Paul Sartre

“Doo be doo be doo” - Frank Sinatra
"Do Bee" - Miss Nancy, Romper Room

 

[markw]

To Geno - Thanks, back at ya.

“To be is to do” - Immanuel Kant

“To do is to be” - Jean Paul Sartre

“Doo be doo be doo” - Frank Sinatra
"Do Bee" - Miss Nancy, Romper Room

Yabba Dabba Do - Fred Flintstone.

Gee, I thought I was the only one here who remembers Romper Room, but I remember Miss Francis from the 50's.

 

[Geno]

Enough Already

Then, of course, there were the Doobie Brothers.

 

[markw]

Not to mention...

Then, of course, there were the Doobie Brothers.

Scoobie Do.

 

[cyberbri]

I see three ways to fix it.

1) Stop all benefits for illegals to remove any incentive to come here.

2) Stop all illegals from entering or, should they manage to sneak in anyway, oust 'em as soon as they're caught. If your fingerprints and SS# don't match or aren't on file, say goodnight Gracie.

3) Fine the bejeezus out of anyone who helps, hides or hires 'em. ...or lock'em up or deport 'em

I'm sure you've got other alternatives.

As far as #1 goes, what kind of "benefits" are you referring to? Even without "free medical care," America is one of the richest if not THE richest nation in the world. Mexico is among the poorest. So to people wanting to come here, the biggest "benefit" is a better life for themselves and their children. They are running to a better life. If we want to reduce the amount of people coming here, we need to help Mexico improve the conditions there.

Of course we need better border patrol - and the Kean / 9/11 Commission recommended 10,000 additional agents on the border of the 5 years after it came out, although the current Admin only put enough money for about 210 additional agents a year (11% or so of the recommendation - not surprising since they flunked most of the other recommendations for securing the homeland). And we need to enforce more with the people hiring illegal/undocumented workers. Unfortunately the party in power controlling all 3 branches of government are in the pockets of big business, since it takes millions of $ in donations to get elected. So anything they do against businesses is probably going to be just for show. I will admit, though, that although I don't know the exact details of all the proposals and plans, I think this is ONE TIME where I think the President has the right idea. We can't deport 12M+ people, so we have to find a way to integrate them into society, with whatever penalties and fees are decided on. And we need to increase the number of people we allow into the country (and slots for Mexico) to make it less daunting to wait in line to get into the country.

Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion and learning a lot by hearing everyone's viewpoints. I'm glad it's staying civil, for the most part at least.

 

[gmichael]

what are you, a saint? everybody breaks the law, everybody, whether it'd be rolling stops, j-walking, illegal turns, sometimes you forget to pay for something when you go to the store, you drink under age, you smoke under age. everybody breaks the law, should we all live in fear. should we turn ourselves in for not signaling 100ft. before a turn? it's dispicable to read such hypocrasies. we're all hypocrates, i know that, but when some of you say that illegals should have no rights because they're breaking the law, i say b.s. because we all break the law. tell me, would you have married your wife if she was an illegal?
it is a human rights issue, some people say illegals don't pay taxes and use abuse the system, don't we all abuse the system in some way. don't we all take advantage of somebody or something sometimes? these people do pay taxes(anyone ever heard of a sales tax?), what, you people think they don't contribute to the economy, you think they don't buy anything? they do contribute and not all of them abuse the system. most of the "illegals" i've talked to want to live in peace and work just like 99% of the population. unfortunately their countries are usually a mess with no fault of their own. don't you get it? they just want a better life. I work in L.A. and most of the illegals i know don't have any insurance whatsoever. when their kids or themselves get sick they go to a pharmacy. how's that for abusing medical insurance? and when they use their illegal social #, you think their going to recieve retirement benefits?(NO!!!) but you are. we have to help each other, not point fingers at one another. btw, this wasn't all about you gmicheal.

I don't want to take anyone's rights away. I also don't see where I have said that. Just have them fill out the paperwork. Me a saint? H'll no. But I paid me dues. I have my record. It follows me anywhere I go to any job interview etc. But that's not really the point is it? The point is that no one who is hiding from the law should be crying about how unfair it is to them. And they sure shouldn't be having their pictures taken for the paper. Duh.. If an "undocumented" alien was here in the room with me I would treat him or her with evey bit of respect that I'd treat anyone else. But if they asked me how I felt about it I would tell them the same thing I'm saying here.
Pick up a pen and fill out the forms. I know it's a long proccess. I know it sucks. But do it. It's the only way that you'll earn your place here. If not, then you'll always be on the run or hiding. And the only person you came blame is you. Sure, companies creat the market by hiring you and paying sub wages. They should be dealt with also. But that doesn't make what you are doing right either.

And I married my wife overseas. I had to wait 9 months after that before she could come here. Another 4 years to get adjusted to perm.

I don't want to kick them out. I don't want them in jail. I don't want them to have any less of a chance than anyone else. But I do want them to fill out the forms. Is that really so much to ask?

 

[~JC~]

and am doing pretty well for myself here in Silicon Valley, thank you very much.

Then you should know better.

If we want to reduce the amount of people coming here, we need to help Mexico improve the conditions there.

I realize that our civil debate is over. Do you truly believe that it is our reponsibility to go into another country and improve their living conditions, and that if we don't , we should expect them to come here illegally so that we can support them here?? And thank you, arrogance is my finest trait.

 

[Sheep]

I realize that our civil debate is over. Do you truly believe that it is our reponsibility to go into another country and improve their living conditions, and that if we don't , we should expect them to come here illegally so that we can support them here?? And thank you, arrogance is my finest trait.

This just made me laugh. You already seem to be doing, why not do it where it counts?

SheepStar

 

[markw]

We did

This just made me laugh. You already seem to be doing, why not do it where it counts?

SheepStar

Ever hear of NAFTA? A lot of blue collar workers were sacrificed on that alter and yet it didn't seem to help them at all.

 

[cyberbri]

I think he was referring to our regime-change pre-emptive war in Iraq. But then again, that wasn't really to help people. There are millions dying in the Congo, Sudan, etc. in Africa that we don't help. Now, maybe if they had the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world America would find it worth invading and occupying them to help the people there.


But yes, economic and trade policies are required that would benefit all parties, rather than just make more money for business and widen the gap between the poor and the wealthy (in both Mexico AND the US).

 

[zildjian]

There are millions dying in the Congo, Sudan, etc. in Africa that we don't help. Now, maybe if they had the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world America would find it worth invading and occupying them to help the people there.

This is one of the best points that somehow tons of people seem to be oblivious to.

 

[cyberbri]

And I'm not bashing America (I love this country), or blaming it or saying anything. Other than foreign policy equals our energy policy, and is about America's interests, both economic and in maintaining our dominance in the world (and keeping the contributions coming in from oil, finance, energy, pharmaceuticals, auto, military-industrial, etc. to keep getting elected - spending millions and millions of dollars to get jobs that pay maybe $250K a year).

 

[masak_aer]

And I'm not bashing America (I love this country), or blaming it or saying anything. Other than foreign policy equals our energy policy, and is about America's interests, both economic and in maintaining our dominance in the world (and keeping the contributions coming in from oil, finance, energy, pharmaceuticals, auto, military-industrial, etc. to keep getting elected - spending millions and millions of dollars to get jobs that pay maybe $250K a year).

I thought I did say this once in another thread, somewhere (I just have to find it but too tired to look for it). It evolved into other subjects and it went on and on. I don't like repeating myself but somehow other people have different opinions. Rather than repeating ourselves and the similar responses being thrown out, it's better we leave this matter to the politicians and the lawmakers of the country. Besides, anything we argue on and defending to hell here won't matters that much. We have read many responses and we pretty much argue about the same thing over and over again. Most responses here are pretty long and repetitions aren't avoidable.

Can't we have something lighter and more fun to talk about anymore?

PS: It is 4:04 pm now, so my mind might not be working properly after a long day of work. Forgive me if I'm wrong voicing my opinion.

 

[annunaki]

I think he was referring to our regime-change pre-emptive war in Iraq. But then again, that wasn't really to help people. There are millions dying in the Congo, Sudan, etc. in Africa that we don't help. Now, maybe if they had the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world America would find it worth invading and occupying them to help the people there.


But yes, economic and trade policies are required that would benefit all parties, rather than just make more money for business and widen the gap between the poor and the wealthy (in both Mexico AND the US).

The current administration has dumped more money into Africa than any other president in history. I guess they do not care.

I am not the the biggest fan of what has been happening either, but you have to give credit where it is due.