Happy Fathers day Illegal Aliens!

[~JC~]

Someone correct me if they can find better data, but I recently read somewhere that the influx of cash sent to mexico by illegals working here is the single largest source of revenue for the entire country. This is a fantastically unbelievable situation.

 

[gmichael]

And how many of you who know/married "immigrants" did your "paperwork" with that person outside the country? How many after that person was in the country on some sort of visa, then you applied to change the status? My wife is Korean (nationality) and from Japan (born and raised in Japan, has Japanese green card). She came into the country on a student visa, we got married, and we applied to change her status while she was here. Would that be jumping to the front of the line? I can't imagine trying to apply and get in from outside the US...

My wife is from the Philippines. We got married there. I had to fly back without her. Filed for the Visa, filed for the K-3 exception, still waited over 9 months before she could come here. Then it took almost 4 more years to change her status to permanent (that only last 10 years, must be a new meaning to permanent that I wasn't previously aware of). Now she must wait 3 more years before she can even apply for citizenship. Not really the front of the line from where I sit. But if you sneak in, work here for a few years under the table (meaning the rest of us make up for their missing taxes) then have a protest, maybe you can skip to the front. Be sure to complain about how hard it is on you to have to sneak around to avoid the cops. Don't forget to burn our flag while you're at it. That always helps.

I know that I am responding to your post but, please don't think that this is directed at you. Unless you're one of those $@%&!ing flag burners LOL.

 

[Resident Loser]

Again...

...I'll bring up the underground economy...the day laborers are paid out-of-pocket cash, sooo...

At the top of the food chain: (a)No state/local taxes paid by the people who pay in cash (it's sorta' a quid quo pro) and (b)hire these mostly unlicensed contractors who have at least two sets of books, who in turn (c)hire the illegals...

They (the customers) pay cash...where does it come from? Can't really declare it as an expense as there is no recipient...how is it handled tax-wise?

Likewise the contractors...they hand out cash at the end of the day...if you don't declare income, you can't declare you have paid anyone wages, it gets sticky...No SSI, no FICA, no Disabilty insurance, no Unemployment contributions...

The illegals...they are untaxed...they don't exist, except they do and they are a burden on our economy, our infrastructure and on our way of life...

Licensed contractors who hire union craftsmen adhere to building codes and basic guidelines, not some approximation of close enough...and trust me in the last few weeks I've seen a great deal of the latter...

jimHJJ(...it's all gonna' fall down around us...)

 

[cyberbri]

Not all illegal immigrants are day laborers who get paid in cash. And the US companies paying in cash and avoiding paying taxes have half the blame/guilt in this. Republicans are pro-business, and business is about profits and bottom lines. So it cuts both ways.

Similarly, what about people who work in restaurants and get paid tips but don't report them or only report a part of the tips? They are cheating the system too, are they not? What about rich people and corporations who use off-shore accounts and banks to get out of paying taxes in the US? I would think that's a pretty big chunk of tax revenue.


I don't endorse it, but some illegal immigrants have face SS numbers and work regular jobs through the system. So they are actually paying taxes and into the SS system even though they don't reap the rewards. So all that money is extra in the system.

Who knows, maybe it evens out.


Resident Loser,

Can you please tell me how illegal immigrants are a direct burden on your life/living? I'm being serious here. I want to understand that aspect to the debate.

 

[cyberbri]

My wife is from the Philippines. We got married there. I had to fly back without her. Filed for the Visa, filed for the K-3 exception, still waited over 9 months before she could come here. Then it took almost 4 more years to change her status to permanent (that only last 10 years, must be a new meaning to permanent that I wasn't previously aware of). Now she must wait 3 more years before she can even apply for citizenship. Not really the front of the line from where I sit. But if you sneak in, work here for a few years under the table (meaning the rest of us make up for their missing taxes) then have a protest, maybe you can skip to the front. Be sure to complain about how hard it is on you to have to sneak around to avoid the cops. Don't forget to burn our flag while you're at it. That always helps.

I know that I am responding to your post but, please don't think that this is directed at you. Unless you're one of those $@%&!ing flag burners LOL.

Yes, it's a hard process, eh? It's much easier to get your spouse-to-be into the US on a visa somehow, get married here, and apply in-country. They don't send you outside the country to wait. So I guess that's cheating to some, skipping to the front of the line to some, or working the system to others.

But who is suggesting they "skip to the front of the line"? Is there legislation out there being proposed that would make them all citizens immediately, without penalty? I haven't heard any proposals like that, so at face value it looks like a straw man (no offense to you) to mis-characterize the other side. Same with calling no deportation (of 12M people, could be more!), paying back taxes, full paperwork process "amnesty."



BTW, is anyone upset about the people "skipping to the front of the line" by joining the armed forces and fighting for our country?

Just one article on this:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/14633274.htm

 

[Tomorrow]

We need look no further than your post:



Your absurd manichean view is just nonsense. Under your logic, we'd better end all charitable foreign aid, all UN programs, all assistance and the Peace Corps, because any of those activities obligates us to do the complete elimination of all problems in the world as you said. Ridiculous.

The truth is that it's our erring in the other direction that is our problem most of the time. Our 'wanting it all on our terms' happens too much.

I already mentioned an example of history directly in Mexico for our own interests at their expense, but let's look at some others. Go back to the 1840's if you like and ask which of our principles respecting the right to self-determination we were expressing when we sent gunboats to Tokyo to tell them 'open up to our markets or die'. Which at the end of the century when we overthrew the government in Hawaaii to dominate it.

When the Iranians wanted to get a fair price for their own oil, the natural result of a democratic leader coming to power and representing the people, our response was not to pay a fair price, but to end democracy in Iran and put in a dictator, creating a brutal police force for him for killing and torturing. I've heard there's been some 'blowback' from that (the term was actually invented by the CIA for that incident).

When Chile elected a leader who wasn't a pawn of our corporations, Nixon ordered him gone. Elected Allende dead, dictator Pinochet in.

Similar for Nicaragua when they overthrew the dictator Somoza family who were 'our boys'; we trained, funded and sent terrorists to kill people, destroy their infrastructure, and terrorize the population into our ultimatum to vote out Ortega, even while we said Ortega would not respect the election if he did not win (he left office peacefully).

When the Venezuelans had the same thing as Iran, we tried the same result, only this time the Venezuelans reversed the coup.

When Ho Chi Minh came to use and said all he wanted was to be free of being a colony and asked our help because he liked our constitution so much - he wanted rid of the French, then the Japanese in WWII, then the French yet again after WWII - we put our ties to the French ahead of principle and told him no. That cost us a bit, too.

A century ago, when our ally Columbia, who we had supported against some rebels wanting to form an independant country Panama, told us we could not build the canal we wanted - we sent the troops in and told them that now, there would be a Panama, who of course was happy to give us the land.

You get the idea. We've had some problems where we are not exactly 'fair' and 'compromising' and living up to our principles in respecting other nations.

We've also done huge good at times. Which do we want to do now? Well, we can try to do *something* to help the situation in Mexico so that they become a more prosperous nation and have less need to get our jobs and drag down our wages, which is even in the long term interest of our corporations, even if in the short term cheap labor is nice - or we can be short sighted as your post suggests and leave the problems.

If the latter, we'll see other problems, as we already do from 10% of Mexico's population being in our borders, to their high susceptibility to drug trafficers.

Why don't we instead do what's both morally nice, and very practical and in pretty much everyone's long term interest?

Thank you for yet another lecture. "Morally nice"? Let me remind you that morality is based upon personal bias. Morality? Yours? Southern Baptists? Shiite Muslims? Who is to make that decision?

Governmental "morality" is an interesting byproduct of international politics which is a tad more complex than you give it credit for, and is only judged by history.

 

[markw]

I look at it this way: how many ticks can feed off a dog before it's bled to death?

I have no problems with illegal, er,.. undocumented, aliens per se, but I do draw the line at:

Free medical; Just say no. If citizens have to pay for it, why do they get a free ride?

Free schooling; Hey, our property taxes pay for that. Why should they get a free ride?

Multiple languages; My grreat grandparents took the time to learn the language and made damn sure my grandparents spoke English. ... and they didn't have classes in their own language, either.

Anchor babies; So what if momma calves on American soil? That should not mean a free ride for mommy and daddy as well. Pack 'em up and ship 'em out. Drop 'em at the border and let that country south of us deal with it. And, see free medical for more on this.

as for the employers who exploit these, fine 'em up the arse. Make it too expensive for them to have illegals working for them. If they paid a living wage in the first place, dollars to donuts they won't have a problem finding Americans to do the work.

But, the guys in the McMansions want a good price on their construction, nannies and landscapers. Heck, fine them too. Betcha they start making sure the people who work on their property are legal when it hits 'em in the wallet. Maybe they'll have to start living like the middle class again.

Social Sccurity checks ae small beans. Take everyone's fingerprints and match 'em through a national database with SS#'s. If these two don't match, well, lucy, you got some 'splainin' to do.

 

[gmichael]

Yes, it's a hard process, eh? It's much easier to get your spouse-to-be into the US on a visa somehow, get married here, and apply in-country. They don't send you outside the country to wait. So I guess that's cheating to some, skipping to the front of the line to some, or working the system to others.

But who is suggesting they "skip to the front of the line"? Is there legislation out there being proposed that would make them all citizens immediately, without penalty? I haven't heard any proposals like that, so at face value it looks like a straw man (no offense to you) to mis-characterize the other side. Same with calling no deportation (of 12M people, could be more!), paying back taxes, full paperwork process "amnesty."



BTW, is anyone upset about the people "skipping to the front of the line" by joining the armed forces and fighting for our country?

Just one article on this:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/14633274.htm

If they want to go throught the normal proccess the same as my wife did then I have no problem with them. I don't think that's what they are after though. They want the free ride. That's why they are protesting instead of filling out forms. Put down the banners of how unfair the US is to them and pick up a pen and an application. They are available on line. Here's where I got ours. http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm

Yes, how do we know that they will fight for us and not turn on the GI next to them. Do we even know their real names?

 

[cyberbri]

A couple of comments from me:

Free medical; Just say no. If citizens have to pay for it, why do they get a free ride?

What are you saying is free?
I had to go into the ER for a sinus infection, and was in-between health carriers (had started new job, but insurance didn't kick in till the end of the month). I used Cobra to pay for it eventually, but my direct bill for that ER visit was about $2300, because I didn't have a specific insurance at the time. If that hand't been paid, it would have been sent to a collection agency. Plus, we have 40M people or so in this country without medical insurance, nearly half IIRC of them children. How are illegal immigrants getting free medical while 40M Americans don't?

Free schooling; Hey, our property taxes pay for that. Why should they get a free ride?

Does everyone pay property taxes? Or just people who own "property" (land/homes)? So people who rent instead of own don't pay property tax, correct? Does that mean people like me who rent shouldn't be getting a free ride with regards to schooling of our children?

Also, I thought local (property) taxes were just a portion of how schools are funded, although each state/district may have special formulas and ways of funding. But a large portion of money comes from the federal government, does it not?

Multiple languages; My grreat grandparents took the time to learn the language and made damn sure my grandparents spoke English. ... and they didn't have classes in their own language, either.

There are ESL classes to get students up to speed with English, but kids can't put their education on hold for a few years while they learn the language well enough to study math, science, and history in English - especially if the kids are older and the subjects much tougher (younger kids pick up languages much quicker, and the subjects aren't nearly as difficult or demanding). Or, are you saying that there should be no non-English classes, and that immigrants must make it through enough ESL before they continue with their education (ie 1-3 years)?

I think the educational system in this country needs a lot of work, and can be fixed by keeping what works and changing what doesn't.

Anchor babies; So what if momma calves on American soil? That should not mean a free ride for mommy and daddy as well. Pack 'em up and ship 'em out. Drop 'em at the border and let that country south of us deal with it. And, see free medical for more on this.

Are you suggesting kicking the parents out of the country and letting the baby stay? Or kicking the parents and the newborn babies out together? And what do you consider a "free ride"? The chance to become American citizens, or somehow not being charged for medical expenses (which I find hard to believe, knowing what uninsured people are charged for hospital and ER visits).

as for the employers who exploit these, fine 'em up the arse. Make it too expensive for them to have illegals working for them. If they paid a living wage in the first place, dollars to donuts they won't have a problem finding Americans to do the work.

But, the guys in the McMansions want a good price on their construction, nannies and landscapers. Heck, fine them too. Betcha they start making sure the people who work on their property are legal when it hits 'em in the wallet. Maybe they'll have to start living like the middle class again.

I agree. There has to be equal punishment/incentive for business. But unfortunately the party in power in all three branches of government (no oversight, no checks and balances) is in the pockets of business for the most part, so any crackdown we see will probably be for show and not serious. We'll have to have a balanced government that actually carries out its duties of checks and balances to get anywhere with this.

But the middle class? The wealth gap is growing, there hasn't been a minimum wage increase in 9yrs, and the people who just voted down a minimum wage increase yesterday recently voted themselves a $3K+/yr pay increase. Data shows that states with higher minimum wages have better economic growth, but somehow it gets spun that raising minimum wage (not even living wages) will somehow be harmful to the economy.

Unfortunately America is accstomed to high wages and cheap prices. But those cheap Walmart/immigrant-wage prices come at a cost. In order to compete and stay profitable, more businesses have to ship jobs overseas to satisfy the consumer's ever-increasing appetite for cheaper-cheaper-cheaper services and goods. And businesses have to pay employees (on the low end) less as well, at jobs that have little or no health benefits. Those employees getting paid less can only afford the cheaper Walmart goods. Tax cuts that mainly benefit the rich have to be countered by cuts in spending, which usually are to benefits to the poor and elderly and increasingly the middle class (medicaid, medicare, food stamp programs, education, student loans, child support). When universal health care (ala Canada) comes up, people complain the quality of service will go down. But when 40M+ people (half that being kids) have no service at all, I would think any sort of service would be better than no service at all. The middle class is shrinking, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer (with a decline in "poor" with the previous president, and the trend is reversing with more poor people under the current president). And yet people keep voting these guys into power, against their own interests. Mainly because they seem to care more about ending abortion and banning gay marriage than their own financial interests and well-being.

 

[cyberbri]

If they want to go throught the normal proccess the same as my wife did then I have no problem with them. I don't think that's what they are after though. They want the free ride. That's why they are protesting instead of filling out forms. Put down the banners of how unfair the US is to them and pick up a pen and an application. They are available on line. Here's where I got ours. http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/index.htm

Yes, how do we know that they will fight for us and not turn on the GI next to them. Do we even know their real names?

So how many immigrants do we allow in the country a year? I have no idea. But it probably needs to be more in order to keep the economy going.


And to counter your logic in your second paragraph -- if they want to be a US citizen so bad they are willing to enlist in the military and fight in a war for us, why would they go and kill other US soldiers and ruin all that? And why would they go to the trouble of joining the military just to kill US citizens when they could just get a gun and kill people on the streets?

And I will turn your attention to WW2, where we were fighting against the Japanese, and this:
http://www.answers.com/topic/nisei-japanese-american

Most Japanese Americans who fought in WWII were Nisei. The 100th Infantry Battalion and 442nd Regimental Combat Team, fighting in the European theatre, became the most decorated unit in U.S. military history for its size and length of service, earning it the title, the "Purple Heart Battalion."

Americans of Japanese ancestry were generally forbidden to fight a combat role in the Pacific theatre. No such limitations were placed on Americans of German or Italian ancestry who fought against the Axis Powers in Europe. However, about 6,000 Nisei did serve in the Military Intelligence Service (MIS) as linguists and in other non-combative roles, interpreting captured enemy documents and interrogating POWs. The initial training facility for the Nisei to prepare for their function was at Camp Savage in Savage, MN. This decision was to locate them in a region where there was less racial prejudice towards the Japanese as compared to the West Coast. MIS linguists translated Japanese documents known as the "Z Plan," which contained Japan's counterattack strategy in the Central Pacific. This information led to Allied victories at "The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot," in which the Japanese lost most of their carrier planes, and the Battle of Leyte Gulf in the Philippines. An MIS radio operator intercepted a message describing Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto's flight plans, which led to P-38s downing his plane over the Solomon Islands. General Douglas MacArthur stated, "Never in military history did an army know so much about the enemy prior to actual engagement." General Charles Willoughby, MacArthur's intelligence chief, said, "The Nisei saved countless Allied lives and shortened the war by two years."

The story of the Nisei is a topic unto itself. There are books written about it and museums devoted to it. It is considered one of the most horrific human rights violations in the U.S. in the twentieth century. The topic of Nisei (and not Japanese Americans per se) is part of the mandated high school history curriculum of many states, including New York State, New Jersey, and California.

So I am afraid I don't quite comprehend your logic of:
"how do we know that they will fight for us and not turn on the GI next to them?"

 

[markw]

What are you saying is free?
I had to go into the ER for a sinus infection, and was in-between health carriers (had started new job, but insurance didn't kick in till the end of the month). I used Cobra to pay for it eventually, but my direct bill for that ER visit was about $2300, because I didn't have a specific insurance at the time. If that hand't been paid, it would have been sent to a collection agency. Plus, we have 40M people or so in this country without medical insurance, nearly half IIRC of them children.

Now, had you been an "undocumented" person they would have had to treat you for free. The state would have picked up the tab. Wotta country, eh?

How are illegal immigrants getting free medical while 40M Americans don't?

That smell you're experiencing just might be coffee. It's often the first thing people smell when they start to wake up. It seems they know more about the system and how to use it to their advantage than you do.

Deal with it. They DO get free medical. Ask Colliefornya and Arizona about that.

BTW, Isn't Silcone Valley in California? I'm surprised you didn't know this: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm

Now, how's this for a sobering thought... "Unreimbursed medical care has caused 84 hospitals to close their doors in California, according to Dr. Madeleine Cosman in a 2005 article in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons. "

Here's where that quote came from: http://www.enewscourier.com/homepage/local_story_168201524.html?keyword=leadpicturestory

Does everyone pay property taxes? Or just people who own "property" (land/homes)? So people who rent instead of own don't pay property tax, correct? Does that mean people like me who rent shouldn't be getting a free ride with regards to schooling of our children?

Your landlord is paying the property tax for you. It's included in your rent but you just don't see it.

Also, I thought local (property) taxes were just a portion of how schools are funded, although each state/district may have special formulas and ways of funding. But a large portion of money comes from the federal government, does it not?

Even if a portion of it does come from the federal government, which is funded by our taxes, why should our taxes pay for illegals? That's a pretty bogus attempt to divert the issue, doncha think?

There are ESL classes to get students up to speed with English, but kids can't put their education on hold for a few years while they learn the language well enough to study math, science, and history in English - especially if the kids are older and the subjects much tougher (younger kids pick up languages much quicker, and the subjects aren't nearly as difficult or demanding). Or, are you saying that there should be no non-English classes, and that immigrants must make it through enough ESL before they continue with their education (ie 1-3 years)?

Well, gee, I guess the current crop of immigrants isn't as smart as those that built this country, are they? After all, they studied at night and still managed. ...and they NEVER demanded classes and government forms be in their native language. ...or anything else for that matter.

Come to think of it, I don't see Asians and Indians, or even Africians and Eastern Europeans having a problem fitting in or learnong the language, do you? Then again, they don't sneak in and then stick their hands out. Oh, that's right.. they learned it BEFORE they came here.

Well Golll-eee. Hooda ever thunka that???

I think the educational system in this country needs a lot of work, and can be fixed by keeping what works and changing what doesn't.

No argument there, but that's an entirely different discussion that has nothing at all to do with immigration.

 

[gmichael]

So how many immigrants do we allow in the country a year? I have no idea. But it probably needs to be more in order to keep the economy going.

How many do you want? How many do you think we need? What makes you think that the number the INS came up with is too low?

And to counter your logic in your second paragraph -- if they want to be a US citizen so bad they are willing to enlist in the military and fight in a war for us, why would they go and kill other US soldiers and ruin all that? And why would they go to the trouble of joining the military just to kill US citizens when they could just get a gun and kill people on the streets?

Are they filling out the forms? Are they using their real names? Are they being proccessed? If so, welcome aboard. If no, see ya. I'm not seeing where your logic is, well, logical.

And I will turn your attention to WW2, where we were fighting against the Japanese, and this:
http://www.answers.com/topic/nisei-japanese-american



So I am afraid I don't quite comprehend your logic of:
"how do we know that they will fight for us and not turn on the GI next to them?"

Think harder.

 

[zildjian]

I'm totally hijacking a thread here, but since this topic exists in buckeye's last 3 or 4 threads, I think it's ok...

I had to go into the ER for a sinus infection, and was in-between health carriers...... my direct bill for that ER visit was about $2300....

Cyberbri, personal questions I know, but if you'd humor me, I'm very interested...
What in the world did you have done to you to get billed $2300 for a sinus infection? Did you spend the night in a room or ask to have a CT scan done? That'd do it. Can't see why that'd be done, but that'd cost you about $2K.
For a sinus infection, it should have just taken looking into your EN&T, listening to your chest, rapid strep test.... and you'd be sent home with appropriate Rx's.
What caused you to go to an ER for a sinus infection? Wrong clinic for that; you have to get in line with all the narcotic seekers (aka, our regulars) and people with real emergencies. Go to an urgent care center, faster and cheaper than the ER. Just had to ask as I can't recall seeing anybody come into the ER for a regular sinus infection nor can I think of how one could get billed $2300 for a case one nurse practitioner could handle in 20 minutes.

markw is right about the free healthcare for indigents, we don't turn anybody away from the ER. The hospital has to eat the bill and our tax dollars too. Course you have a credit report you'd like to maintain, so you have to pay your bills.

OK, back to those UFO creatures... wonder if they are even carbon based?
Brad

 

[cyberbri]

I'm totally hijacking a thread here, but since this topic exists in buckeye's last 3 or 4 threads, I think it's ok...



Cyberbri, personal questions I know, but if you'd humor me, I'm very interested...
What in the world did you have done to you to get billed $2300 for a sinus infection? Did you spend the night in a room or ask to have a CT scan done? That'd do it. Can't see why that'd be done, but that'd cost you about $2K.
For a sinus infection, it should have just taken looking into your EN&T, listening to your chest, rapid strep test.... and you'd be sent home with appropriate Rx's.
What caused you to go to an ER for a sinus infection? Wrong clinic for that; you have to get in line with all the narcotic seekers (aka, our regulars) and people with real emergencies. Go to an urgent care center, faster and cheaper than the ER. Just had to ask as I can't recall seeing anybody come into the ER for a regular sinus infection nor can I think of how one could get billed $2300 for a case one nurse practitioner could handle in 20 minutes.

markw is right about the free healthcare for indigents, we don't turn anybody away from the ER. The hospital has to eat the bill and our tax dollars too. Course you have a credit report you'd like to maintain, so you have to pay your bills.

OK, back to those UFO creatures... wonder if they are even carbon based?
Brad

I started to get a fever over the weekend, and had a fever of about 103. I went to the ER one night, and then the next night I was worse (maybe the fever went up, or just didn't get better). I went in late at night, waited a few hours, saw a doctor, waited some more, got a shot of something, or maybe they drew my blood. They told me it was a bad sinus infection == the second night, because they didn't do the necessary test or check whatever the first night. That's about all I remember. But it wasn't much, certainly not $2K worth of treatment. Good thing Cobra paid (I think I joined after and they paid retro-active). If I'm going to spend $2k on treatment, it would be the Bunny Ranch kind of treatment, heh.

Come to think of it, it could have been $800 the first night, and $1500 or so the second night. I'm not sure. But I went two nights in a row, because I went from bad to worse. But I was really "sick" from Sunday until about Friday or so - fever, the whole 9 yards.

But like I said, this was at night, past 11PM, night shift. There weren't that many people in the ER, but I still waited an hour or whatever in the waiting room just to see someone. Feeling like S#!@ with a 103 fever.

Granted, this was a few weeks after moving from Seattle to San Jose, didn't know where anything was. I looked in the phonebook for the nearest hospital. Closest had a higher admit fee, so I went to another one that seemed to be a bit better. It may have been a "treatment center" - it was a small place, not like the big hospitals. Who knows... It was 2.5 years ago. All I remember is the intense fever and the $2300 bill. My wife may not have been there yet too, because I remember having to drive there on my own (about 20min away), and it was before the start of the next month when my medical coverage at my new job was set to start.

But when you're uninsured, they really stick it to you. It's much higher than what they charge the insurance companies.

 

[htjunky]

There was an article in our local paper the other day. It seems that the illegal aliens in our area have it very hard. They were complaining about how hard it is to go out in public knowing that they could be picked up by the police at any time. It's just too in cruel for anyone to have to live in this kind of fear. And they had their pictures on the front page. The article was titled, "Immigrants live in fear." So sorry, my wife is an immigrant. She doesn't live in fear at all. Know why? We followed the rules. It's only the illegal immigrants that live in fear. Anyone breaking the law should live in fear. Am I missing something?
I've got to remember to change my subscription.

what are you, a saint? everybody breaks the law, everybody, whether it'd be rolling stops, j-walking, illegal turns, sometimes you forget to pay for something when you go to the store, you drink under age, you smoke under age. everybody breaks the law, should we all live in fear. should we turn ourselves in for not signaling 100ft. before a turn? it's dispicable to read such hypocrasies. we're all hypocrates, i know that, but when some of you say that illegals should have no rights because they're breaking the law, i say b.s. because we all break the law. tell me, would you have married your wife if she was an illegal?
it is a human rights issue, some people say illegals don't pay taxes and use abuse the system, don't we all abuse the system in some way. don't we all take advantage of somebody or something sometimes? these people do pay taxes(anyone ever heard of a sales tax?), what, you people think they don't contribute to the economy, you think they don't buy anything? they do contribute and not all of them abuse the system. most of the "illegals" i've talked to want to live in peace and work just like 99% of the population. unfortunately their countries are usually a mess with no fault of their own. don't you get it? they just want a better life. I work in L.A. and most of the illegals i know don't have any insurance whatsoever. when their kids or themselves get sick they go to a pharmacy. how's that for abusing medical insurance? and when they use their illegal social #, you think their going to recieve retirement benefits?(NO!!!) but you are. we have to help each other, not point fingers at one another. btw, this wasn't all about you gmicheal.

 

[Matt34]

what are you, a saint? everybody breaks the law, everybody, whether it'd be rolling stops, j-walking, illegal turns, sometimes you forget to pay for something when you go to the store, you drink under age, you smoke under age. everybody breaks the law, should we all live in fear. should we turn ourselves in for not signaling 100ft. before a turn? it's dispicable to read such hypocrasies. we're all hypocrates, i know that, but when some of you say that illegals should have no rights because they're breaking the law, i say b.s. because we all break the law. tell me, would you have married your wife if she was an illegal?
it is a human rights issue, some people say illegals don't pay taxes and use abuse the system, don't we all abuse the system in some way. don't we all take advantage of somebody or something sometimes? these people do pay taxes(anyone ever heard of a sales tax?), what, you people think they don't contribute to the economy, you think they don't buy anything? they do contribute and not all of them abuse the system. most of the "illegals" i've talked to want to live in peace and work just like 99% of the population. unfortunately their countries are usually a mess with no fault of their own. don't you get it? they just want a better life. I work in L.A. and most of the illegals i know don't have any insurance whatsoever. when their kids or themselves get sick they go to a pharmacy. how's that for abusing medical insurance? and when they use their illegal social #, you think their going to recieve retirement benefits?(NO!!!) but you are. we have to help each other, not point fingers at one another. btw, this wasn't all about you gmicheal.

Then why have any laws at all? So your reasoning is because people break the laws that we really shouldn't enforce them because by golly, everyone does it?

Sorry but that argument doesn't hold water.

 

[htjunky]

matt34,
so then your a law abiding citizen? you don't break the law right. wasn't it jesus who said, "let he who has not sinned throw the first stone", who are we to judge and sentence? you think illegals are hurting you?

 

[Matt34]

matt34,
so then your a law abiding citizen?

That's just it, I am a U.S citizen.

Illegals are hurting this country, it's documented, I see it every day living 20 minutes from the border.

Oh, my day job consist of enforcing the law, so yeah I abide by it.

 

[billy p]

Just a thought

but, shouldn't you guys stop beating this to death! Let your Congress or the Senate work this out and stop with all this counter punching!
PS: I'M SUPRISED THIS THREAD HASN'T BEEN CLOSED.

 

[~JC~]

A response

Can you please tell me how illegal immigrants are a direct burden on your life/living? I'm being serious here. I want to understand that aspect to the debate.
Poor CyberBri. Sometimes the clarity is just too blinding. How is it that illegals get their care while others in the US (legals) don't??? Because I work for free. Not that I want to. Not that you want to, but you probably have no social mandate for what you do (in fact, your responses are so immature, I suspect that you are a student with no job, I'm helping you too). But I am a physician, and 10% of my yearly care is provided for free. And I live in a heavily migrant area, and I'm pretty clear where that free care goes. Not to mention that my life is made more difficult by the winter migration south, which allows me to provide care only in the summer. Oh if disease were only so forgiving. Each year, I'm a bit farther behind, at a bit more free care on my part. Don't worry yourself, though. You will never feel it.