FS: Vista Ultimate and Office 2007 Ultimate

[mike c]

No delivery confirmation. There's more on it here:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53319

Basically abbudabbu is f^%&ed.

yeah i read that, but i was wondering if it was fedex, UPS (which can easily be traceable) or USPS (slightly traceable).

if it was USPS, did jonnythan follow up with the USPS?

 

[abboudc]

Respectfully, I've been selling things online for about 13 years now and that's never been standard operating procedure for individual sellers in this sort of situation. That's procedure for stores and retailers.

Can you name ONE that doesn't operate like this?

I've been trading on line for 10 years+. I think i was one of the first accounts at Anandtech (1999) and traded at AGN while it was still there. I was reading anandtech before they had a logo. I posed the question to the moderator at Anandtech since it's probably one of the biggest online forums of this type and got the following reply:

His response to you of:
"Very very sorry. I'm afraid i can't issue a refund as i can't be held accountable for the actions of the shipper. Sorry."

is rubbish. he IS the shipper/seller of the item. On our forum it is the responsibility of the seller to get the product to the buyer. Even if he has to eat it or to buy the insurance to cover the item he is selling. I will say that if he tried that on our forum, his answer would not fly here."

I also have a mail out to Kyle @ Hardforum, since you seem to frequent both Hardforum and Anandtech.

 

[jonnythan]

The Anandtech forum rules are not the definitive source of trading rules for the entire internet.

This transaction did not occur at Hardforum or Anandtech, so the rules of either of those forums do not apply. As I've noted, it's just as possible that you are attempting to rip me off as it is that the package got lost in the mail. I am sorry, but there's nothing I can do at this point besides offer my apologies.

 

[abboudc]

The Anandtech forum rules are not the definitive source of trading rules for the entire internet.

This transaction did not occur at Hardforum or Anandtech, so the rules of either of those forums do not apply. As I've noted, it's just as possible that you are attempting to rip me off as it is that the package got lost in the mail. I am sorry, but there's nothing I can do at this point besides offer my apologies.

You implied it was not the standard operating rules and i was requesting something that should not be expected. I agree this did not take place at anandtech or Hardforum, I just posted it to illustrate that my expectations are in line with standard operating rules on most of these boards, which you seemed to imply it wasn't.

I'm sorry we couldn't come to an amicable resolution as well, as it would have been better for all involved. I really do hope it shows up within the next week and the unpleasantness can be avoided. If it can't, so be it.

 

[jonnythan]

how was the package mailed? do you have proof of sending it jonnythan?

I don't. I was shipping several things that day (some scuba gear, the copy of Office, a box of magazines). I brought them all to the counter at the post office. The scuba gear went Priority, the copy of Office and Vista got first class stamps put on them (they were both in half-letter envelopes with 2 layers of cardboard), and the box of magazines went media mail. The scuba gear got insured, the copies of Office and Vista and the magazines did not.

In the future, for any forum transactions I will probably require buyer-paid insurance on any packages to avoid such a situation. If I get banned or whatever, so be it I suppose. But I don't understand why I would be 100% on the hook [for what is quite possibly an attempt at a scam from abboudc] for all of the financial loss here because the buyer did not opt into insurance, as is standard on eBay and similar marketplaces.

 

[jonnythan]

I spent a few minutes discussing the situation with a lawyer friend of mine. She told me in no uncertain terms that since abboudc has directly threatened specific legal action against me, I should refrain from any further comment whatsoever. I apologize.

 

[mike c]

jonnythan,

when was the item sent? exact dates please.

im sure you owe the classifieds here and abboudc at least the supposed date it was shipped

 

[Tomorrow]

Legal rights are certainly in question, here. And yes...either party 'could' be scamming the other. But no matter what happened, by internet sale convention the seller is the responsible party and should make it right to the buyer.

Good luck, abboudc.

 

[mike c]

jonnythan, please answer the last question above.

IMO, you have no proof of sending it, clamming up now would only ruin your reputation even if you had all the legal backup in the world.

 

[Highbar]

jonnythan, please answer the last question above.

IMO, you have no proof of sending it, clamming up now would only ruin your reputation even if you had all the legal backup in the world.

I think he's already clammed up mike. I'm guessing we wont see/hear from him till this is over.

 

[mike c]

I think he's already clammed up mike. I'm guessing we wont see/hear from him till this is over.

that's too bad. lawyers just mess things up

there's the legal thing to do ... and then there's the right thing to do.

i just wish there was more data in this thread. instead of "i sent it a few days after" (e.g. how many days after what date?)

maybe abboudc can tell us WHEN he sent payment and WHEN it was received.

 

[Alex2507]

Boooo !!!

Clammed up, hangin' onto the cash and talkin' to lawyers.
Yet politely apologetic.

 

[Adam]

Doubtful that they would, but I wonder if the post office has a copy of the surveillance video from that day that shows him there mailing it.

If it comes down to trying to find that, though, this whole thing will have escalated far past its worth, IMO. Vista probably cost about $200.

 

[Highbar]

that's too bad. lawyers just mess things up

there's the legal thing to do ... and then there's the right thing to do.

i just wish there was more data in this thread. instead of "i sent it a few days after" (e.g. how many days after what date?)

maybe abboudc can tell us WHEN he sent payment and WHEN it was received.

Agreed Mike. A date from someone would be nice. All we have to go by is when he said it was sold in the thread and that's not much at all.

It seems like people that want to do the right thing are the minority now days and that $uck$

 

[jonnythan]

I mailed it on 3/9. I don't intend to "clam up" but to do anything else would apparently be very stupid. I don't know what you guys expect me to do. Abboudc already said that he's going to sue me. I'm still here but I'm going to do my best not to comment further on the matter.

 

[abboudc]

that's too bad. lawyers just mess things up

there's the legal thing to do ... and then there's the right thing to do.

i just wish there was more data in this thread. instead of "i sent it a few days after" (e.g. how many days after what date?)

maybe abboudc can tell us WHEN he sent payment and WHEN it was received.

I sent it March 4th. According to the USPS website it was delivered on March 6th. After not hearing anything from him that he received it or mailed my package, i pm'd him on March 13th asking him if he received the MO or mailed the package. He confirmed he received the money in a PM on March 15th and said he sent the package "some days ago".

I have the MO stub, Delivery Confirmation stub, and even the receipt from the PO with both. I trade online a lot and find that it's better to keep things until the deal is done in the event something goes wrong. This is the first time i've ever had an issue.

I don't think any of this is in dispute. The fundamental dispute is over who is responsible for a lost package in the mail? The person who sent it or the person receiving it? He says it's me, since i didn't "opt-in" for insurance, whatever that means. I say it's him since the arrangements for deilivery were between himself and the shipping company.

It's not about the money at this point, $120 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's about the principle. Had it been the reverse, i would have refunded his money immediately. And i would have put tracking on the package. But that's me.

 

[abboudc]

I mailed it on 3/9. I don't intend to "clam up" but to do anything else would apparently be very stupid. I don't know what you guys expect me to do. Abboudc already said that he's going to sue me. I'm still here but I'm going to do my best not to comment further on the matter.

If you have another way of resolving the dispute (without you unilaterally declaring you're keeping my money as has happened so far), i'm all ears. Certainly i don't want to "sue" anyone. Small claims is a way to have both sides present the facts (w/o lawyers) and the judge decides the outcome. It's quick (half an hour) and fair. Do you have another suggestion?

 

[jinjuku]

You should have....

That is completely unfair.

I mailed the package to the address provided by Abboudc a couple of days after I received the money order. Abboudc did not ask for insurance on the package so I did not pay for insurance on it.

Abboudc claims not to have received it. I have thus far refrained from insinuating that he did actually receive it and is claiming not to have received it in an attempt to get money back, which is a very common scam.

I have apologized profusely. The CD really did get lost in the mail if abboudc didn't receive it and the address he provided to me was correct.

Jonnythan,

I believe you to be a credible member with out question, but...

You should have sent that with delivery confirmation and $200 insurance. I ship product for customers on a weekly basis. There isn't a package that goes out that isn't:

1. Insured (since if it is damaged in transit it will most likely be me pushing the insurance claim).

2. Delivery confirmation. Because that product is mine until the other party actually receives it.

I have had USPS 'disappear' a shipment before. My bottom line is to get the customer what they paid for and deal with USPS later. My customer is never hung out to dry while I wrestle USPS (or any other delivery service). It's not what they signed up for.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

That reminds me, I never got the Rotel from Warp and Alex stole my acoustic panels...I am calling my lawyer.....

 

[Shock]

After the payment was received it is up to the sender and the company who processed the shipment to make sure the package gets to the buyer. This is with ALL shipping contracts of any nature.

If Abboudc does take this to small claims court he will win.

Whether tracking was paid for or not, any shipping company keeps track of all items shipped regardless. If it was shipped it should only take a few phone calls to figure out where the package is.

Although it wasn't the brightest idea to not get tracking, and to not get insurance on a package from someone you have never dealt with in the past. It's not Abboudc job to make sure his package arrives.

Anyways, here's a tip. PAY FOR EVERYTHING WITH YOUR CREDIT CARD.

If they don't accept paypal find someone who does.