Front Speaker Placement

[davee70]

I have often heard it said that the front left and front right speakers should form an equilateral triangle with the listening position. I have a relatively small listening room. In order to also maintain equal distance between the front speakers and the surrounds relative to the listening position I ended up with a distance that was only about 61/2 feet. This additional requirement was due to the fact that I had no way to adjust the time delay for unequal distances on my player when playing SACD discs, which most of my multichannel discs are.

Recently I got a new player that allows me more flexibility in speaker placement. Because I was disappointed with the imaging I was getting from the front speakers, I moved the listening position further away. That has improved the imaging considerably. However, in order to maintain an equal distance between the front speakers and the listening position, I would have to spread the front speakers from 6 feet to 8 feet apart. That means also moving the sub and the furniture along the front and side walls. I am trying to decide whether I should leave the speakers where they are (I am delighted with the improvement) or go ahead and do what I would have to in order to move them another two feet apart.

One thing that causes me to hesitate is that I do not have a center speaker and the manufacturer no longer makes a center speaker comparable to my main speakers. In any event, positioning a center speaker would be awkward with the setup I have now. The sound stage is plenty wide enough as it is (I have no complaint there), so I'm wondering whether I would gain anything by moving them further apart and whether I would begin to notice the absence of a center speaker if I did. The sub is well situated where it is now, without the need for EQ adjustments, and I have few other choices about where to put it.

Does the equal distance rule necessarily apply when there is no center speaker or in a simple stereo setup?

 

[AVRat]

Rules are made to be broken! If it sounds good to you, don't futz with it.

 

[davee70]

Sounds Good to Me

AVRat:

I like your attitude. I will follow your advice.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[jostenmeat]

Recently I got a new player that allows me more flexibility in speaker placement. Because I was disappointed with the imaging I was getting from the front speakers, I moved the listening position further away. That has improved the imaging considerably. However, in order to maintain an equal distance between the front speakers and the listening position, I would have to spread the front speakers from 6 feet to 8 feet apart. That means also moving the sub and the furniture along the front and side walls. I am trying to decide whether I should leave the speakers where they are (I am delighted with the improvement) or go ahead and do what I would have to in order to move them another two feet apart.

First of all, you are giving too much credit to the distance of a foot, or two feet, or three feet. Do you think someone in a theater is scrooed if they aren't exactly in the center?

Say you throw the surrounds off by 2ft distance. The differential in time is only less than .002 second, and if you measure to the opposite ear, I believe it could even be less than .001 second. (It would take about 10x that amount of time for us to distinguish reflected ambient audio from the direct sound, just for comparison).

Now for the sub. Subs have greater delay involved, normally, because of the built in Eq/filters, DSP, in addition to the physical distance. IOW, you try setting the phase after you find the best freq response in the room. Your advantage by using subs is that you should be able to have better bass precisely because you don't have to place them exactly as your speakers; only placing with best bass performance in mind.

One thing that causes me to hesitate is that I do not have a center speaker and the manufacturer no longer makes a center speaker comparable to my main speakers. In any event, positioning a center speaker would be awkward with the setup I have now. The sound stage is plenty wide enough as it is (I have no complaint there), so I'm wondering whether I would gain anything by moving them further apart and whether I would begin to notice the absence of a center speaker if I did. The sub is well situated where it is now, without the need for EQ adjustments, and I have few other choices about where to put it.[/SIZE]

Yes, you can* move speakers too far apart where you now have a hole in the middle, relative to where you are seated. It should be pretty easy to listen for. If you love these speakers so much that you will always use them, and that you can find another identical speaker, you can use that in the future as a center speaker if you ever go the way of front projection combined with an acoustically transparent screen. You can pull of a nice combo for about $2k, disregarding light control, or IOW, for the price of a decent flat panel.

 

[davee70]

jostenmeat,

I appreciate your perspective.

I get the feeling I should leave things well enough alone at this point.

I do think the imaging got a bit better moving a little further away. I am doubtful of finding a center speaker that will work well for me.

I failed to say that the sub is where it is because I dragged it to various positions at the front of the room and it seemed to do best where it is (taking into consideration my other furniture). I used a mike and the DD-15's test sweep (and my ears on actual music).

P.S. I do love my speakers!

 

[michaelbarry]

somewhat front speaker related...

How good are sound bars in comparison to 2 front speaks and a center speaker. I am thinking of getting a soundbar for my game room, but is it worth it?

 

[jliedeka]

I think the equilateral triangle thing is more of a guideline. I've been gravitating toward the speakers being a little closer together.

That works especially well if you also use your system for home theater. You don't want the sound to be coming from too far from the screen. Where I really noticed that was watching Lord of the Rings. There was a waterfall in the background that sounded like it was in the wrong place.

For music, I tried having the speakers farther apart thinking I might get a larger soundstage. That really wasn't the case. Plus I had to toe them in a bit because the tonal balance wasn't right when I was too far off axis.

Jim

 

[just-some-guy]

How good are sound bars in comparison to 2 front speaks and a center speaker. I am thinking of getting a soundbar for my game room, but is it worth it?

just like anything else. there are good and bad. get a good one and you most likely will be satisfied. get a crappy one, and you will probably think they are all crap. but really, it all depends on what you need and expect.

 

[lsiberian]

How good are sound bars in comparison to 2 front speaks and a center speaker. I am thinking of getting a soundbar for my game room, but is it worth it?

Soundbars normally are designed to bounce sound off walls. For a game room I'd suggest a couple of decent pairs of bookshelves mounted up high and angled down to protect them from spilled drinks and etc.

If it's a video gaming room then surround sound is even more critical. Many games use surround sound to identify bad guys.

 

[just-some-guy]

speaker placement

what a lot of people don't understand. is that the "loudness" that you play the system at makes a large difference in the placement guidelines .

say you have large speakers placed far apart. if you don't crank it up enough, there will be that "whole". crank it up, and it all comes together.

so, if you don't crank it up. put your speakers closer together.

 

[davee70]

speaker placement

what a lot of people don't understand. is that the "loudness" that you play the system at makes a large difference in the placement guidelines .

say you have large speakers placed far apart. if you don't crank it up enough, there will be that "whole". crank it up, and it all comes together.

so, if you don't crank it up. put your speakers closer together.

I had never thought of that. Thank you for pointing it out.

BTW, I did try moving my fronts a little further apart. I ended up moving them back to where they were because the sub did not do as well further toward the right side wall. No surprise really.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have often heard it said that the front left and front right speakers should form an equilateral triangle with the listening position. I have a relatively small listening room. In order to also maintain equal distance between the front speakers and the surrounds relative to the listening position I ended up with a distance that was only about 61/2 feet. This additional requirement was due to the fact that I had no way to adjust the time delay for unequal distances on my player when playing SACD discs, which most of my multichannel discs are.

Recently I got a new player that allows me more flexibility in speaker placement. Because I was disappointed with the imaging I was getting from the front speakers, I moved the listening position further away. That has improved the imaging considerably. However, in order to maintain an equal distance between the front speakers and the listening position, I would have to spread the front speakers from 6 feet to 8 feet apart. That means also moving the sub and the furniture along the front and side walls. I am trying to decide whether I should leave the speakers where they are (I am delighted with the improvement) or go ahead and do what I would have to in order to move them another two feet apart.

One thing that causes me to hesitate is that I do not have a center speaker and the manufacturer no longer makes a center speaker comparable to my main speakers. In any event, positioning a center speaker would be awkward with the setup I have now. The sound stage is plenty wide enough as it is (I have no complaint there), so I'm wondering whether I would gain anything by moving them further apart and whether I would begin to notice the absence of a center speaker if I did. The sub is well situated where it is now, without the need for EQ adjustments, and I have few other choices about where to put it.

Does the equal distance rule necessarily apply when there is no center speaker or in a simple stereo setup?

The equilateral triangle is a dumb rule and wrong.

Most speakers on these forums are far too close together. Mains should be a minimum of 8 to 14 ft apart. 12 to 14 ft is optimal.

Equilateral triangle be damned.

Go through the galleries and you will see mains and center so close together it just has to give a poor result, and that's provable!