Freq Responses graph

[PENG]

Ok so I'll run the XT32 app again and take a FR with REW after. So what's the REW curve, no smoothing, that you need from me to set up a table to enter the values to the Rat App? All of these?
- Subwoofers only.
- FL only.
- FR only.
- FL+FR.
- FL+FR+Subs.

I would just like to see:
FL only,
FR only,
Subs(all 3 obviously) only,
and
FL+FR+Subs (all 3)

and for the range 15 to 200 Hz for the horizontal axis and min: 50 dB, max: 90 dB for the vertical axis so I can see better, unless you can find a way to attach the REW files that would likely be too big to attach.

 

[ciotime]

I would just like to see:
FL only,
FR only,
Subs(all 3 obviously) only,
and
FL+FR+Subs (all 3)

and for the range 15 to 200 Hz for the horizontal axis and min: 50 dB, max: 90 dB for the vertical axis so I can see better, unless you can find a way to attach the REW files that would likely be too big to attach.

Ok will do...will try it tomorrow. Hope you check back...thanks again.

 

[ryanosaur]

I've seen discussion before of doing Center +Subs...
@PENG , your thoughts on the benefit of using Center +Subs instead of, or in comparisson to, Mains +Subs?
Thx!
R

 

[PENG]

I've seen discussion before of doing Center +Subs...
@PENG , your thoughts on the benefit of using Center +Subs instead of, or in comparisson to, Mains +Subs?
Thx!
R

If the center channel is full range or near full range, then it is should be included, to see how it integrates with the other FL/FR and subs. In my case I tried that in the beginning, found insignificant difference either way. So I think it depends, and should be investigated first. I wouldn't worry about center-sub, but if one has time, then may as well do that too. It's just one more graph to plot and the results should tell us what to do next.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yep I did apply my own house curve via the miniDsp.

That is a very typical room curve with room reinforcement in the last two octaves. This is a good reason why I'm contrary, and try and avoid a doctrinal sub crossover. Your mains are towers. What are they, and what is their F3? If speakers are capable, the LFE + main tends to work best. You can take advantage of your speakers bass roll off and then just bring the sub in to splice a decent acoustic curve. Often this means just using the sub below 40 Hz. It is not written in stone that you have to cross the sub at 60 or 80 Hz, and that is often precisely the wrong thing to do. I suspect your solution is along these lines, and then you will also probably have to turn your sub down to not have the 10 db boost in the last octave. When you do as I suggest then you often have to turn the sub down 10 db or so, and things sound much better.

I keep telling everybody you don't need all that power for the last two octaves. The vast majority of systems have far too much power in the last two octaves and are starved above that.

 

[3db]

That is a very typical room curve with room reinforcement in the last two octaves. This is a good reason why I'm contrary, and try and avoid a doctrinal sub crossover. Your mains are towers. What are they, and what is their F3? If speakers are capable, the LFE + main tends to work best. You can take advantage of your speakers bass roll off and then just bring the sub in to splice a decent acoustic curve. Often this means just using the sub below 40 Hz. It is not written in stone that you have to cross the sub at 60 or 80 Hz, and that is often precisely the wrong thing to do. I suspect your solution is along these lines, and then you will also probably have to turn your sub down to not have the 10 db boost in the last octave. When you do as I suggest then you often have to turn the sub down 10 db or so, and things sound much better.

I keep telling everybody you don't need all that power for the last two octaves. The vast majority of systems have far too much power in the last two octaves and are starved above that.

I have tried LFE + main in both my systems but the smoothest integration I got was the 80 Hz crossover. It really depends on room geometry and speaker placement.

 

[ciotime]

That is a very typical room curve with room reinforcement in the last two octaves. This is a good reason why I'm contrary, and try and avoid a doctrinal sub crossover. Your mains are towers. What are they, and what is their F3? If speakers are capable, the LFE + main tends to work best. You can take advantage of your speakers bass roll off and then just bring the sub in to splice a decent acoustic curve. Often this means just using the sub below 40 Hz. It is not written in stone that you have to cross the sub at 60 or 80 Hz, and that is often precisely the wrong thing to do. I suspect your solution is along these lines, and then you will also probably have to turn your sub down to not have the 10 db boost in the last octave. When you do as I suggest then you often have to turn the sub down 10 db or so, and things sound much better.

I keep telling everybody you don't need all that power for the last two octaves. The vast majority of systems have far too much power in the last two octaves and are starved above that.

Thanks for your input. My tower's are the Dali Oberon 7. The listed specs are below.
I'm using a Denon X3700H in a 7.1.4 setup with a Mcintosh MA8900 in HT bypass mode as the external amp
to power the front's since the Denon can only power 9CH but can process 11CH.
I'm quite happy with the response in the bass region. No major peaks and dips plus I was able to get an even response across 3 seats. My only concern is the 130Hz-300Hz region below the Schroeder Freq if there's anything I can do to improve it. Besides I'm already limiting the XT32 Freq Range to EQ only up to 400Hz.

Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz]	36 - 26,000
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB]	88.5
Nominal Impedance [ohms]	6
Maximum SPL [dB]	110
Recommended Amplifier Power [W]	30 - 180
Crossover Frequency [Hz]	2,300
Crossover Principle	2-way
High frequency driver, Quantity	1 x 29 mm
High frequency driver, Diaphragm type	Soft Textile Dome
Low frequency driver, Quantity	2 X 7"
Low frequency driver, Diaphragm type	Wood Fibre Cone
Enclosure type	Bass Reflex
Bass Reflex Tuning Frequency [Hz]	39.5

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for your input. My tower's are the Dali Oberon 7. The listed specs are below.
I'm using a Denon X3700H in a 7.1.4 setup with a Mcintosh MA8900 in HT bypass mode as the external amp
to power the front's since the Denon can only power 9CH but can process 11CH.

Frequency Range (+/-3 dB) [Hz]	36 - 26,000
Sensitivity (2,83 V/1 m) [dB]	88.5
Nominal Impedance [ohms]	6
Maximum SPL [dB]	110
Recommended Amplifier Power [W]	30 - 180
Crossover Frequency [Hz]	2,300
Crossover Principle	2-way
High frequency driver, Quantity	1 x 29 mm
High frequency driver, Diaphragm type	Soft Textile Dome
Low frequency driver, Quantity	2 X 7"
Low frequency driver, Diaphragm type	Wood Fibre Cone
Enclosure type	Bass Reflex
Bass Reflex Tuning Frequency [Hz]	39.5

I had guessed that you had speakers with a -3db point around 40 Hz from your curves.

So try 2 settings, LFE + main with the sub coming in at 40 Hz, and try a full crossover at 40 Hz, and turn your sub down until you curb that rise below 70 Hz.

I bet that will do the trick for you.

Here is my room curve with LFE + main at 40 Hz at the MLP.

Room gain is well controlled until 30 Hz, but a slight rise below that point is not unpleasant.

This is the response at 1 meter of a single speaker. These speakers are actually full range speakers, but the Sub and LFE outputs are blended in via active crossovers and mixing circuits. However it shows you the effect of room gain, and how in this room the 1 meter response has to be allowed to droop a little because of room gain.

No other Eq or Audyssey is engaged, and never is. The bass and the whole frequency spectrum is exceedingly natural. The droop at 15 K is due to omni mic which rolls off at that point.

 

[ciotime]

A couple of pictures of the room. The front picture is a previous setup. The 2 subs now are both to the sides.

 

[Trebdp83]

Still like that room.

 

[ciotime]

Still like that room.

Thanks!!!

 

[ciotime]

I had guessed that you had speakers with a -3db point around 40 Hz from your curves.

So try 2 settings, LFE + main with the sub coming in at 40 Hz, and try a full crossover at 40 Hz, and turn your sub down until you curb that rise below 70 Hz.

I bet that will do the trick for you.

Here is my room curve with LFE + main at 40 Hz at the MLP.

Room gain is well controlled until 30 Hz, but a slight rise below that point is not unpleasant.

This is the response at 1 meter of a single speaker. These speakers are actually full range speakers, but the Sub and LFE outputs are blended in via active crossovers and mixing circuits. However it shows you the effect of room gain, and how in this room the 1 meter response has to be allowed to droop a little because of room gain.

No other Eq or Audyssey is engaged, and never is. The bass and the whole frequency spectrum is exceedingly natural. The droop at 15 K is due to omni mic which rolls off at that point.

"turn your sub down until you curb that rise below 70 Hz"-When I applied EQ via the miniDSP I purposely had that rise. In the Target Settings I had the LF Rise start at 100Hz and LF Rise end at 15Hz with a slope rise of about 7dB difference from 100Hz-15Hz.

 

[ciotime]

Here is the before and after EQ graph.

 

[TLS Guy]

Here is the before and after EQ graph.

View attachment 49057

Well, the lower green line looks to be very good.

 

[ciotime]

Well, the lower green line looks to be very good.

Thanks...the lower green is BEFORE I added a house curve. I used the Ratbuddyssey app to add about a 5dB bump.

 

[lovinthehd]

@TLS Guy why on earth would you use the double bass settings? You just like that reinforcement?

 

[ciotime]

@TLS Guy why on earth would you use the double bass settings? You just like that reinforcement?

The Denon has 2 presets. Preset 1 is the green more flat one while preset 2 is the one with a 5dB bump. I tried the 5dB bump on the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow...gave me a BIG smile.
Anyway I'm good with the FR from 15Hz-100Hz...just hoping I can improve the FR from 120Hz-300Hz.

 

[lovinthehd]

The Denon has 2 presets. Preset 1 is the green more flat one while preset 2 is the one with a 5dB bump. I tried the 5dB bump on the opening scene of Edge of Tomorrow...gave me a BIG smile.
Anyway I'm good with the FR from 15Hz-100Hz...just hoping I can improve the FR from 120Hz-300Hz.

What modes are you referring to in the form of presets, your custom ones or some sort of built-in version?

 

[ciotime]

What modes are you referring to in the form of presets, your custom ones or some sort of built-in version?

The presets made after doing Audyssey calibration. After doing the XT32 app it gives you the option to select preset 1 or 2 before sending it to the Denon. So my preset 1 is the original green flat one while my preset 2 is the one modified via the RAT app. The preset 2 is quite similar to the preset 1 but with DEQ on. I'm using 2 SVS PB1000 pro's and 1 PB1000. Room is roughly 13'X19'X8'.

 

[lovinthehd]

The presets made after doing Audyssey calibration. After doing the XT32 app it gives you the option to select preset 1 or 2 before sending it to the Denon. So my preset 1 is the original green flat one while my preset 2 is the one modified via the RAT app.

Where's the bump and what are its parameters?