For the love of god or whoever … VOTE!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Samurai
OK, just checking. I have been seeing comments in various places calling for one party and that can't be allowed.
Only commenters belonging to a lunatic fringe calls for that. I don't recall any poster here calling for a one party state.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Only commenters belonging to a lunatic fringe calls for that. I don't recall any poster here calling for a one party state.
I still see people saying that the US should be more like Sweden, but the Sweden they're referring to doesn't exist anymore after finding that some of the programs didn't work (like the employee tax, paid by the employer, that reached a really high rate).

Unfortunately, we have people in Congress/other positions of high office who don't understand the concept of 'balance'.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I think both systems (capitalism & socialism) offer benefits, depending on the economic times. It’s this blind belief in capitalism though, the dogmatism that worries me. Everything is judged in black & white, with no allowance for greys.
The US does in some ways have a hybrid system, in that many of our social programs, even the Earned Income Credit, remind people of socialism and its advocacy of income redistribution. I think where a lot of people are worried about socialism is more in the context of dictating how businesses are run. I'm in this camp. The minute we allow the government to dictate who is in management roles or on the boards of directors, then I get pretty black and white myself.

Why not take the best of both and integrate them like these countries have, here in the US? And tweak them to our needs?

I’ve had these debates with my Republican friends and all I encounter is a brick wall, with talk of American ‘exceptionalism’ and that ‘old’ Europe or Canada can’t teach us anything and they shut down.
I'm not in that camp. There are countries we could learn from, Canada is one of them, but the US has always been such a unique place, and often not in a good way. For example, what other countries have the equivalent of "Italian Americans", or "African Americans", or "Chinese Americans"? Is there such a concept anywhere else? What other country is where budding entrepreneurs want to live? What other large country has to live with such a history of slavery and discrimination, and yet still refuses to come to grips with it? (Don't say Germany, we should do so well.) I think the US has been exceptional in some ways, like our history at attempts in nation-building to create allies rather than colonies, but we're also just different in some ways I'd rather we not be.

There’s an odd dichotomy here in the US where corporate welfare, for example after the Great Recession of 2008 is OK and currently with the virus, but individual welfare is frowned upon and seen as weak & unnecessary. What’s the difference?

Unless you're still a believer in ‘trickle-down’ economics and we all saw how well that worked out in the Reagan years and impacts us to this very day.
The "corporate welfare" was in the interest of saving jobs and the "status quo". Many politicians of the day were convinced that the US economic systems could not function without the financial leaders or the companies that provided esoteric financial instruments and markets. I think a lot of the people that knowingly caused the problems should have gone to prison. The Bush and Obama administrations just had no taste for such a cleansing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1981/12/the-education-of-david-stockman/305760/

BTW Irv I disagree that some European countries despise the US. I speak from personal experience with my Sicilian relatives who I’ve kept in touch with since we immigrated here in 1962 and my travels in Europe at different times over the years … well maybe with the French. :D That’s more from a snobbery angle than anything else. Privately though they still realize where their bread is buttered and value our friendship immensely and admire us.
Please reread what I said. I wasn't saying that France and Italy despised the US, I said they despised rich people, even their own. In Italy, for example, Ferrari is a matter of national pride. These are cars that (in the US) have an entry level of about $250,000, and go way up from there. Or even Prada and Armani? I just find it weird that a country which is one of the premier providers of luxury goods on the planet try to tax their own wealthy citizens to a degree that these industries can't survive without an export market. France is just as confusing in this regard.

I've been to several European countries, and I never felt any contempt for Americans as individuals. Well, maybe once in Spain. Of course, I haven't been to Europe since the start of the Trump administration.

The only European political entity I'm aware of that does seem to have contempt for the US is the EU government in Brussels. It is annoying to watch the incessant fining of US companies over silly anti-competitive claims, as if anything a company creates of value suddenly becomes a national resource subject to government management. IMO, US companies are only successful in the EU because EU citizens want them to be. Slapping Google around is not a strategy for creating successful EU-based competitors.

It’s only when DJT made his grand entrance on the world stage that they questioned our sanity. A constant refrain I hear from my relatives nowadays is; WTF is going on over there? Have you lost your minds?

I can’t say I disagree.
We have lost our minds. And I don't think we're done being stupid yet for a long time.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Senior Audioholic
Unfortunately, we have people in Congress/other positions of high office who don't understand the concept of 'balance'.
Yeeeeeah. Like the last month of election silence from Republicans.:rolleyes:
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I never felt any contempt for Americans as individuals
Next time you go, try telling everybody you meet that you're from Canada.

And hang out with scummier people. They're generally loser with displays of contempt.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Please reread what I said. I wasn't saying that France and Italy despised the US, I said they despised rich people, even their own. In Italy, for example, Ferrari is a matter of national pride. These are cars that (in the US) have an entry level of about $250,000, and go way up from there. Or even Prada and Armani? I just find it weird that a country which is one of the premier providers of luxury goods on the planet try to tax their own wealthy citizens to a degree that these industries can't survive without an export market. France is just as confusing in this regard.
For two countries that act as if they hate the wealthy, they sure seem to be unable to stop electing them to the Presidency.
 
Teetertotter?

Teetertotter?

Audioholic
I don't have a degree of any sort, but self taught. My father taught me to accept responsibility, listen to my elders, show respect, listen to others/advise, work hard, and have COMMON SENSE. Do we have any COMMON SENSE in todays world, for the most part????

How are our current elected Gov't officials doing in this dept?? FOR THE PEOPLE??? You decide!
 
D

Dude#1279435

Senior Audioholic
I really don't care if you believe it, or not. Words have meaning, the noise in your head doesn't.
Now if you've decided the election isn't a fraud and it's really about Trump trying to steal it, then yes I believe you.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Senior Audioholic
I thought this was a good, dry analysis on Copeland and the "prosperity gospel." I use to think otherwise, but I think you have to truly believe what you're doing in order to do it. Oddly, Paula White was responding on youtube after Now This News did a piece on her. I imagine damage control.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
LMAO., look who has come back from the dead !! and he's so out of touch he doesn't even know what side of the fence 'ole Lovin' is on !!

This can't be real.......... I knew I shouldn't of had that second Manhattan tonite ....
Look who has always been dead. King of the speaker cable risers and over-priced amps.
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
The US does in some ways have a hybrid system, in that many of our social programs, even the Earned Income Credit, remind people of socialism and its advocacy of income redistribution. I think where a lot of people are worried about socialism is more in the context of dictating how businesses are run. I'm in this camp. The minute we allow the government to dictate who is in management roles or on the boards of directors, then I get pretty black and white myself.



I'm not in that camp. There are countries we could learn from, Canada is one of them, but the US has always been such a unique place, and often not in a good way. For example, what other countries have the equivalent of "Italian Americans", or "African Americans", or "Chinese Americans"? Is there such a concept anywhere else? What other country is where budding entrepreneurs want to live? What other large country has to live with such a history of slavery and discrimination, and yet still refuses to come to grips with it? (Don't say Germany, we should do so well.) I think the US has been exceptional in some ways, like our history at attempts in nation-building to create allies rather than colonies, but we're also just different in some ways I'd rather we not be.



The "corporate welfare" was in the interest of saving jobs and the "status quo". Many politicians of the day were convinced that the US economic systems could not function without the financial leaders or the companies that provided esoteric financial instruments and markets. I think a lot of the people that knowingly caused the problems should have gone to prison. The Bush and Obama administrations just had no taste for such a cleansing.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1981/12/the-education-of-david-stockman/305760/



Please reread what I said. I wasn't saying that France and Italy despised the US, I said they despised rich people, even their own. In Italy, for example, Ferrari is a matter of national pride. These are cars that (in the US) have an entry level of about $250,000, and go way up from there. Or even Prada and Armani? I just find it weird that a country which is one of the premier providers of luxury goods on the planet try to tax their own wealthy citizens to a degree that these industries can't survive without an export market. France is just as confusing in this regard.

I've been to several European countries, and I never felt any contempt for Americans as individuals. Well, maybe once in Spain. Of course, I haven't been to Europe since the start of the Trump administration.

The only European political entity I'm aware of that does seem to have contempt for the US is the EU government in Brussels. It is annoying to watch the incessant fining of US companies over silly anti-competitive claims, as if anything a company creates of value suddenly becomes a national resource subject to government management. IMO, US companies are only successful in the EU because EU citizens want them to be. Slapping Google around is not a strategy for creating successful EU-based competitors.



We have lost our minds. And I don't think we're done being stupid yet for a long time.
Be careful Irv, you or I may come over to the dark side and start agreeing on some things. :D

You speak heresy sir
. :p

This is exactly what I'm looking for in the US discourse. An exchange of ideas, compromise and implementation. If it doesn't work, re-evaluate why and try again. I'm just frustrated that both parties are 'locked in' and we're just spinning our wheels and important domestic issues (climate crisis, infrastructure, health care, etc.) go unattended.

I'm tired of being two or three steps behind obvious problems, with a finger up our posterior.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top