Finally, for us vinyl enthusiasts!

[mtrycrafts]

I'll put my money on guys like von Karajan any day.

Me too

I have a few of his recordings, for my boomox

 

[mtrycrafts]

Now that is an explantion that I think about. I'm definitely aware of the degredation during playback, however, I didn't really think about the pressing process. So essentially, even though analog wave is a more accurate reproduction of the sound that is recorded (b/c digital is only a infinitely close approximation of that sound), the vinyl pressing process introduces elmements that are not faithful to the original recording, thus making the vinyl less accurate relative to the orignal recording?

Not totally correct thinking. Analog signal transmitted too far, any distance, degrades rather rapidly. It is a fragil signal affected by a number of parameters. Youir best bet is a digital mic that converts the signals to 0s and 1s right at the mic. Now that would be as accurate as the condenser in the mic is. Also. in the vinyl chain, not only the pressing is flawed, it is the actual cutting of the master that is also mechanical in nature, is flawed.

 

[HookedOnSound]

ALL recording is "by definition inaccurate".

I'm with you on this one! Finally, someone with some sense!

It's impossible to have an identical replication of sound/music, the end result is a 'facsimile'. Copied and flawed (over generalizing of course)

I have heard so much rhetoric by various ppl on this matter that the facts have been blurred into one mind numbing truth for me: I don't care!

You don't dissect music, you listen to it! sheesh!

IMHO, vinyl sounds great (the few times that I have heard it) but you can't ignore the merits of CDs. Sound quality, convenience, maint. and reliability (no degradation like vinyl).

That laser turntable probably does exactly what it's suppose to as far as not adding any wear and tear but your vinyl collection will eventually expire (hopefully not in your listening lifetime) due to it's inherit qualities.

There is alot of talk about about CDs being "sterile" and I agree, but I don't believe it's the media but rather the rec. engineering behind it. Let's face it, today's music is produced like "Pop Tarts" and all this "compression" (add whatever terms you want) stems from poorly produced art.

CDs has it's flaws also otherwise we wouldn't be moving to HD formats like Blu-Ray and the likes.

They is no reason why both sides of the argument can't win. It all comes down to one thing: Perception.

If it sounds right to your ears that is what counts.

Hey if you don't agree with me, that's ok.

But I make a suggestion: grab a beer (in my case, 3), put on some tunes and have a seat.

Happy Listening!

 

[mtrycrafts]

You don't dissect music, you listen to it! sheesh!

We agree

CDs has it's flaws also otherwise we wouldn't be moving to HD formats like Blu-Ray and the likes.

Well, that is not because CD is lacking much that you will miss listeing to music.
Blue-Ray is designed for HD movies. That has a tremendous apetite for bits, both storage and release capability. And, to put it on such a small CD size disc, space is crucial, hence the shorter wavelengths, smaller pits, more data storage on same size.

They is no reason why both sides of the argument can't win. It all comes down to one thing: Perception.

Well, yes, and no. Perception is just that, one prefers something no matter what and no reason is needed.
The technical side is different. Only the facts please

If it sounds right to your ears that is what counts.

Yes
I like my boombox

 

[HookedOnSound]

mtrycrafts,

you say cd isn't lacking much, than why are the lobbying groups for HD CDs/DVDs feel the need for increasing the sampling rates? why not stick with the status quo?

you also mention technical details, well I have to say I purposedly didn't add much since alot of others already posted enough as it is I didn't feel the need to regurgitate the same old stuff.

I simply voiced my opinion. I enjoy reading a forum thread that contains good technical data but when you're talking about 40-60 posts the message gets lost in translation.

Bottomline, the listening instrument between the sofa and the receiver will always be the deciding factor. And it's probably the most flawed listening device. LOL

Not directing this at anyone in particular, but I'm perplexed about how come ppl are so hung up on technical details when they completely ignore the "content", that's the whole point isn't?

 

[Rob Babcock]

mtrycrafts,

you say cd isn't lacking much, than why are the lobbying groups for HD CDs/DVDs feel the need for increasing the sampling rates? why not stick with the status quo?

I promised myself I'd ignore this tired thread, but I can't help one comment- the sampling rate is a red herring and everyone knows it. If "lobbying groups" are trying to increase sampling rates I can't say, as I've never heard of such lobbyists, but most of the push to go to higher rates is a ploy by the studios to convince people to accept a new format hamstrung by DRM and draconian copy restrictions under the dubious pretext of giving us better sound. DVD-A and SACD may indeed give us better sound, but since when does Big Music give a damn about that?

 

[shokhead]

mtrycrafts,

you say cd isn't lacking much, than why are the lobbying groups for HD CDs/DVDs feel the need for increasing the sampling rates? why not stick with the status quo?

you also mention technical details, well I have to say I purposedly didn't add much since alot of others already posted enough as it is I didn't feel the need to regurgitate the same old stuff.

I simply voiced my opinion. I enjoy reading a forum thread that contains good technical data but when you're talking about 40-60 posts the message gets lost in translation.

Bottomline, the listening instrument between the sofa and the receiver will always be the deciding factor. And it's probably the most flawed listening device. LOL

Not directing this at anyone in particular, but I'm perplexed about how come ppl are so hung up on technical details when they completely ignore the "content", that's the whole point isn't?

They feel the need to make more money off us. If they had the end all of end all audio,do you think that would be it? Do you think HD CD's/DVD is the end? When they came out with 4 and 8 tracks,that was it. Then the cassette,that was it and so on and so on. Heck, its never going to end until,well there isnt a until,it just keeps going. Its up to us to either keep going or say,hell with it,i'm happy with this and am staying with it. I'm pretty darn happy with cd's and just dont have much left for anything else right now. Multi-channel is nice but with 2 formats and the lack of recordings,whatever.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

you say cd isn't lacking much, than why are the lobbying groups for HD CDs/DVDs feel the need for increasing the sampling rates? why not stick with the status quo?

Because the status quo won't make equipment manufacturers money. They make their money by selling the new technology at outrageous prices when they are first released. It isn't about better sound quality, it's about planned obsolesence and forcing us to buy more expensive gear.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

I promised myself I'd ignore this tired thread,

Party pooper.

 

[HookedOnSound]

...as I've never heard of such lobbyists

I lacked better words to describe anyone who is pushing/promoting the merits of higher sampling rates.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I lacked better words to describe anyone who is pushing/promoting the merits of higher sampling rates.

Sorry for the confusion.

Okay, I understand now. Well, on general principle I'm all for higher sampling rates and longer word lengths, especially since the cost is (by now) negligable. Certainly for the actual tracking, using 24 bits and later reducing down to 16 for the actual CD is a good idea. I can't prove that 24 bits will sound better than 16, all else being equal, but it's hard to image that under the same circumstances it could sound worse. So why not go with higher rez?

Still, IMOHO, the biggest improvement offered by DVD-A comes not from the higher rates but from the greater number of channels. I've found properly done MC to simply sound more realistic than any stereo recording I've heard. And in the case of mulitracked electronic rock & pop music, where there really is no "real" sound to capture, MC recordings are often much more interesting than 2 Ch. Of course, there's no lack of crappy MC discs, although of course the same could be said for plain vanilla 2 Ch stereo stuff, too.

 

[mtrycrafts]

mtrycrafts,

you say cd isn't lacking much, than why are the lobbying groups for HD CDs/DVDs feel the need for increasing the sampling rates? why not stick with the status quo?

you also mention technical details, well I have to say I purposedly didn't add much since alot of others already posted enough as it is I didn't feel the need to regurgitate the same old stuff.

I simply voiced my opinion. I enjoy reading a forum thread that contains good technical data but when you're talking about 40-60 posts the message gets lost in translation.

Bottomline, the listening instrument between the sofa and the receiver will always be the deciding factor. And it's probably the most flawed listening device. LOL

Not directing this at anyone in particular, but I'm perplexed about how come ppl are so hung up on technical details when they completely ignore the "content", that's the whole point isn't?

HDCD is nothing but a gimmick to lure in the gullible audiophiles.
DVDA and SACD was designed for multi channel audio discs. Now they do sound awsome when done well, not just to show off.
Besides, the public is conditioned over the years to buy the latest and greates, last years is old, must have something new today.

The technical issues come in when some start claiming technical advantages that can be tested

 

[shokhead]

Of course CD's,HDCD,DVD-A and SACD and DTS all can sound good/bad depending on who is doing the mixing,right?

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Hasn't that always been true regardless of the type of media of the end product?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The real issue

Does anyone still buy cd's? Isn't that the real issue? How simple is it to download 200 songs from Napster for $15 a month, or Bearshare and copy to a .05 cent cd-r? How about MP3? Has anyone noticed that some of these digital recordings are absolutely abysmal? What happened? They didn't start out that way. Was it inferior equipment transferring the data? I thought digital to digital was perfect. MP3 is the furthest thing from it IMHO. Fine for the Walkman.

With Sirius and XM satellite radio taking over, who needs FM? I'm not sure on the quality of satellite, but the quality coming from my DVR 8300HD "music tunes" on the 900# channels is unreal. My bet is all recorded music will migrate to memory cards. Hopefully, the quality doesn't go down the tubes once the cd market evaporates. It's only a matter of time. Hold on to your vinyl and your cd collection, because things will change in the next 3-5 years.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

With Sirius and XM satellite radio taking over, who needs other modes?

I have sirius through DishNetwork and was suprised at the poor quality of some of the music. Specifically I heard David Bowie's Space Oddity which sounded like somebody played the CD in another room and then recorded it on a tape recorder through the door. And some Alanis Morisette which I had just heard on my daughter's MP3 player which sounded like all the bass had been filtered from it.

In every other case that I've heard Sirius songs I am familiar with on my home system (The car system is XM and not good enough for reference comparison), the quality has always been less than 128kbps MP3/AAC files.

Needless to say I have no intention of paying for Sirius seperate of my cable bill, or XM when my "free year" expires.

 

[Sleestack]

I have sirius through DishNetwork and was suprised at the poor quality of some of the music. Specifically I heard David Bowie's Space Oddity which sounded like somebody played the CD in another room and then recorded it on a tape recorder through the door. And some Alanis Morisette which I had just heard on my daughter's MP3 player which sounded like all the bass had been filtered from it.

In every other case that I've heard Sirius songs I am familiar with on my home system (The car system is XM and not good enough for reference comparison), the quality has always been less than 128kbps MP3/AAC files.

Needless to say I have no intention of paying for Sirius seperate of my cable bill, or XM when my "free year" expires.

I have to agree. I got a XM system for baseball and a Sirius system for my main system. I use analog outs on the XM. It sounds fine for its purpose (i.e. baseball), but hardly good enough for serious listening. I run a digital out on the Sirius through and external DAC and tube buffer... unfortunately those things can't cure a bad source.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Does anyone still buy cd's? Isn't that the real issue?

I buy CDs. I guess I'm old-fashioned. I like having the whole album, the cover art, the liner notes, the credits, etc. Downloading a song doesn't have anywhere near the same appeal as collecting a group's albums. With albums, I can trace a group's history and listen as they evolve. Downloading songs I have no idea if it's a new song, an old song or who played the instruments.

MP3s are killing the music industry because there is no emotional attachment to bands any more.

And I have better things to spend my money on then a subscription to Napster or even Sirius or XM. I will never pay for my radio, thank you very much.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Of course CD's,HDCD,DVD-A and SACD and DTS all can sound good/bad depending on who is doing the mixing,right?

Absolutely
Easy to screw it up, difficult to do it well.

 

[shokhead]

Does anyone still buy cd's? Isn't that the real issue? How simple is it to download 200 songs from Napster for $15 a month, or Bearshare and copy to a .05 cent cd-r? How about MP3? Has anyone noticed that some of these digital recordings are absolutely abysmal? What happened? They didn't start out that way. Was it inferior equipment transferring the data? I thought digital to digital was perfect. MP3 is the furthest thing from it IMHO. Fine for the Walkman.

With Sirius and XM satellite radio taking over, who needs FM? I'm not sure on the quality of satellite, but the quality coming from my DVR 8300HD "music tunes" on the 900# channels is unreal. My bet is all recorded music will migrate to memory cards. Hopefully, the quality doesn't go down the tubes once the cd market evaporates. It's only a matter of time. Hold on to your vinyl and your cd collection, because things will change in the next 3-5 years.

Taking over? Didnt i read one of those lost a million bucks last year or something like that? I have a problem paying for radio that i hardly ever listen to anyway.