Exclusive Denon AVR-3805 First Look!

[steve.m]

Signal imput

I have just taken delivery of a AVR-3805 and luv it. The information found on this site certainly helped with my decision as I have been looking and auditioning for some time now.
My query is that when playing analogue and PCM sources the indicators showing imput channels don't light. They light when a DD or DTS signal is present but not with the others. It's no big deal but if it's a fault.............
Steve M. Thankyou for any suggestions.

 

[keenan]

I just read in Sound and Vision Mag., that the 3805's video upconversion is "interlaced" instead of "progresive" scanning. Does this mean that conecting my dvd player directly to my tv would have better results, or does the 100mhz. bandwidth compensate for the interlaced scanning?

It transcodes composite and S-video to component for output to the TV/monitor. It does not de-interlace or interlace the signal. As far as connecting the DVD straight to the TV, that would be the only way I would do it unless you have multiple equipment with component outputs and not enough component inputs on your TV. The less a video/audio signal is routed through different equipment and circuitry the better.

Jim

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Steve, it sounds like your DVD player is not set to stream DTS. Set it to stream everything and make sure the Denon is set to auto.

 

[Audioholics]

The Audioholics front page under the AVR-3805 section reads:

This receiver is not THX-Select certified, but from going over the specs we are guessing that it would pass the THX certification tests with flying colors as it adheres to all of the specifications we are aware of.

Is this statement in reference to the amplification standards of THX Select or does the AVR-3805 also include THX processing circuitry (re-equalization, surround decorrelation, etc.)?

Also, regarding "bi-amping," as the technique outlined in the review simply amplifies the woofer and tweeter separately is seems plausible that any 7 channel receiver with multi-zone capabilities would be able to do this as well. Any counterpoint?

Thanks, Bido (new to the board)

You are correct to point this out. The Denon 3805 does not have THX processing circuitry which is a large part of what makes a THX unit THX certified. The Denon did not go through the THX procedure and measurements process to obtain feedback and adjustments to match the THX spec.

We were more implying that it has compatible bass management capabilities, power requirements and such.

 

[Jason Coleman]

I've got a couple of questions about bi-amping the 3805. First, what exactly is the purpose of using an SPL meter to check levels? Also, when adjusting volume, do you have to manually adjust the Main Volume and the Zone 2 volume? Finally, when I go to select a source for Zone 2, the display says "Rec Out" instead of "Zone 2." The manual (awful) indicates that it should display Zone 2....any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jason

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Hmm, let me try to explain this simply it is a little confusing. Try and think of it like this, setting the zone2 volume level is like setting the gain, you are trying to match it to the other amps so when you increase the master level they will all go up together. It would seem that +2 is the proper setting, but you should check it. First do a level check on the right and left the normal way, assuming you have already balanced your channels, whatever that level is at the 0db ref point take a note of it. Then switch the speakers leads over to the zone2 and run the Left and right test again. With the master level being at 0 set the zone2 volume setting to match whatever your reading was. That's it, your done. Take off your shorting bars on your speakers, wire zone2 to the woofers, and the mains to the tweeters or vice versa. Get ready to rock. If someone can explain it any easier please do. I had to think about it a minute when I first did it. Then it made sense.

 

[steve.m]

Signal imput

Jeff, thanks for your suggestions but the imput indicators light ok with DTS & DD signals from my DVD, but don't light up when playing CD's thru the coax imput or analogue signals from my TV. I don't think they lit when playing CD's via my DVD player and opt imput either. I have both my CD & DVD players set to auto and don't have analogue connections to them at this stage...........
Regards, Steve M.
Maybe I should go back to my retailer but my unit was a special order as the only Denon's he normaly stocks are the "low" priced units prefering NAD and HK for mid to upper end priced units.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Steve, just because your dvd player shows that it is decoding DTS does not mean it is streaming it out of the digital output. Does your dvd player have built in DTS decoders? if yes then that is why it lights up. Have you went into to your DVD setup menu to check what it is set to stream out on the digital output? it must be set to stream all, otherwise you will only get DD or PCM but no DTS. If it is set correct then I would take back the receiver, because those lights should light up when they detect a DTS stream.

 

[steve.m]

Signal imput

Jeff, no my dvd doesn't have built in decoding and it is set to bitstream all signals. The indicators work fine with DVD's and it auto selects DD & DTS. My question is, do your indicators light when you are playing PCM and analogue signals thru your Denon? If they do then I will need to look futher into it or return it. If yours don't then that must be just the way they are set up and I won't pursue it any futher. Steve M.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I have a 2803 and no I think it only says stereo on CD. Nothing lights up though. It does not say PCM anywhere either. I misunderstood your first post. I think you are OK. Maybe someone with a 3805 can verify, your display is a little different than mine.

 

[steve.m]

Signal imput

Thanks Jeff, I'll sit back and wait and see if someone with a 3805 replies.Steve M.

 

[MickeyMan]

Bi-amping revisited

While reading the review I was shocked in an exciting kind of way when I saw the bi-amping possibility. However, thinking for a longer time about it, maybe it is not the way to go. Think about these disadvantages:

1. Each seperate amp gets it's power from the main power unit. Now, when bi-amping in a 5.1 set, the total power will be divided over 7 amps iso 5. This means that the center and back speakers will be less power driven.

2. As I understand you have to make a shortcut from your pre-out to some input connector. Depending on the interconnect you use for this it will lose quality in the signal.

Still, I'm considering doing this when I receive the 3805. I do have a few questions however:
- can this also be done with the 3803? Has anyone done this? (just curious)
- after it has been set up properly, is using the 3805 exactly the same as if it were not bi-amped? Volume, source selection, etc.?
- and maybe the most important question: who does the bi-amping on the 3805 and what are the RESULTS? Is the sound better in any way?

 

[jaglad]

Hi Steve,

I have just tried my 3805 and my input lights only light when playing back Dolby Digital or DTS.

Playing CD's, iPod, TV, mini disc basically anything analogue only lights up the left, right and SW output lights the input lights stay off.

Glad yours does the same as mine as I was wondering about the situation myself.

Stu

 

[Unregistered]

Jeff, thanks for the info. After wrapping my feeble mind around the process and configuration, I was able to bi-amp my 3805 yesterday. I set the Zone 2 volume to +2 and it sounds fantastic. I'm using Paradigm Studio 100's and they have really opened up all around. The highs are crisp and bright (in a good way) and the lows are tight and thunderous. I listened to about 5 CD's after bi-amping and noticed differences right away. Everything from Sting to Aesop Rock sounds amazing. I actually turned off my sub and backed off the bass and treble a bit.

I haven't spent any time exploring the Zone 2 features of the 3805, and I doubt the altogether crappy manual will shed any light, but I was wondering how configurable the Zone 2 is as far as eq settings, levels, etc. I'm not sure how this whole process affects the auto-eq feature of the 3805 (which was definitely a selling point).

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thanks in advance,

Jason

 

[Audiosouse]

3805: Bi-Amping compromises and CRT interference

Purchased a shiny silver Denon AVR-3805 based on your initial impressions and acolades given to all things Denon (in every publication you care to mention).

(1) Bi-Amping:
EAGERLY read the review, especially the bi-amping section as I'm running 5.1 with no zone 2.

EAGERLY bi-amped my mains according to your exact instructions, which worked and had the exact unity gain of +2 db with my SPL at 75 db.

EAGERLY listened as my Paradigm Monitor 7v.3's pumped out 240 watts of....what?!...background noise???

As it turns out, Gere was correct in his review of the 5803, there's a reason Denon "...did not provision preamp couplers for this task (bi-amping)...they did this for a very good reason, eliminate a path for noise. Ordinarily I would have questioned that, but the very fact that year after year, Denon products, namely their receivers and DVD players always measure some of the lowest noise floors in the industry as illustrated by their exceptional Signal to Noise (SNR) measurements in all modes of operation conducted by various audio publications."

Well, I'm not questioning Denon's logic as bi-amping raised the noise floor enough to hear it from the listening position, and I'm not talking quiet passages from a poorly recorded CD with the volume set at reference level. I'm talking no signal, with the volume raised just above off (-80 db). Sob

Quite a contrast to the ABSOLUTE SILENCE I originally experienced (and Denon is famous for) connecting one set of speaker wires with jumpers in place. A glaring ommission in as detailed a review as one is likely to find. The culprit is high Zone 2 volume levels necessary for unity gain with the "front" amplifier channels. This noise, although significanly softer, is envoked with a single speaker cable connection by raising the Zone 2 volume level to +2 db, bi-amping...well...amplifies it. Turn your main volume level with no signal to +2 db and you'll see what I mean.

2) CRT Interference
Since introducing the 3805 to my system I've noticed green discolourations on the corner and outer edges of my Sony KV34HS510 HDTV. It occurs regardless of running the video direct to the TV or through the 3805. My mains and centre are magnetically sheilded, several feet from the TV and I've purchased good double sheilded video cable with source ground.

Since removing the Monster HTS 1000 MKII it has diminished significantly, but is still ever so slightly visible (hey, I'm a perfectionist, that's why I buy this stuff). I feel it's the AC, in particular, the 3805 sharing a power line with the Sony. Anyone ever come across this? I've been battling it for a month and I'm at the point of tweaking pleasure crossing over into stressful vexation!

 

[Unregistered]

Audiosouse-

I don't have any noise with my 3805 bi-amped. None. I can pause a CD (Pioneer 45a player) and turn the 3805 all the way up and there's absolute silence! There was silence before, and thankfully, there is silence now.

With the variety of problems you're experiencing, is it possible that there's something wrong with your A/C wiring? You may be getting residual noise from something else on that circuit. We've got three dedicated 20-amp circuits for our setup and haven't had any problems (knocking on wood!).

Jason

 

[gene]

Audiosouse;

The background noise you are experiencing doesn't sound right. However, since I don't have a unit personally to test, I can't say one way or the other. I recommend using the Zone2 assignment for the bass section of your speakers, that way if there is a higher noise floor, you wont likely hear it, also you can boost or cut your bass to your liking as well.

As for color issues of your display. I had someone email me on this same issue and it turned out their speakers were not magnetically shielded and they placed them too close to their display. Perhaps this happened to you?

I recommend bypassing the 3805 video section and run the video sources directly to your display to see what happens.

1. Each seperate amp gets it's power from the main power unit. Now, when bi-amping in a 5.1 set, the total power will be divided over 7 amps iso 5. This means that the center and back speakers will be less power driven.

The biamping recommendation mostly has its benefits for two channel. The AVR-3805 is more than capable at delivering full power to 4 channels simultaneously. In 7CH mode, it obviously cannot, but thats not a typical real world scenario. You would be surprised to know most of the power in a 7.1 HT setup of course is in the sub, followed by the Center channels and main speakers. Multichannel music is another story, but if you were stressing this unit in 5CH mode in a normal configuration, its likely that you should opt for a separate power amp to supplement your listening needs. You can always try this configuration to see what works best for you.

In my case, back on the AVR-5803, I did this, and never looked back, until I upgraded to 7.1 speaker configuration with my main speakers being an active subwoofer satellite system. I found my current configuration requires much less power to drive to theatrical levels, especially with its dual 400 watt subwoofers.

Sorry if I missed some questions in this forum, its hard to keep up

 

[Unregistered]

Why did you buy an AVR-3805 over an RX-V2400?

Many, many people (including myself) are wondering whether to buy the Denon AVR-3805 or the Yamaha RX-V2400. I'm interested in hearing from folks who have already wrestled with that decision.

Which one did you choose?

Why did choose it?

Thanks!

 

[m1abrams]

Many, many people (including myself) are wondering whether to buy the Denon AVR-3805 or the Yamaha RX-V2400. I'm interested in hearing from folks who have already wrestled with that decision.

Which one did you choose?

Why did choose it?

Thanks!

I recently have been through that choice.

I choose the 3805, and my reasons were not decided until after I demoed them both side by side. It was obvious to me which one I liked better after the demo. Interestingly I was leaning towards the yamaha 2400 prior to the side by side demo. I just liked the sound of the denon better.

Best thing for you to do is find a shop where you can do a comparison, because on features alone they are pretty equal.

 

[Jason Coleman]

Many, many people (including myself) are wondering whether to buy the Denon AVR-3805 or the Yamaha RX-V2400. I'm interested in hearing from folks who have already wrestled with that decision.

Which one did you choose?

Why did choose it?

Thanks!

I, too, intended to buy the 2400. What drew me to the Denon was the 3 component inputs and Denon's reputation for build quality. I listened to the 2400 with Paradigm Studio 100 v.3's (which I have at home) and thought it sounded really good. Then I listened to the Denon and it sounded even better. Most of my use is 2-channel CD and the Denon is really quite excellent. The only downside to the Denon is that you have to purchase the setup microphone separately ($65). Many dealers are offering loaner mics, but you'd probably want to purchase your own. The new 2805 includes the mic.

Jason