Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

[DenPureSound]

If we are talking about Salon2, then Titanium inverted dome midrange and woofers and Beryllium tweeters.

I am amazed at all the metals in drivers, like KEF R Series use Magnesium/Aluminum alloy cones, Salon 2's using Titanium, and Beryllium.

What happened to paper impregnated cones, isn't that Ascend w/ reed impregnated cones drivers, and Aperion with woven Kevlar impregnation into what (?).. I asked and drew some blanks from Aperion what their base cone driver substrate is, I am assuming polypropylene, or ?

 

[DenPureSound]

Right--I know they worked pretty hard on that tweeter design to get something that could be crossed low. Also, they use a woven kevlar fabric, which may be better behaved than the standard formlations. I modified one fairly popular bookshelf model (not an Aperion) that crossed at 4 kHz, right smack at one of the kevlar breakup modes. BTW, I met Aperion's crossover designer in Oregon last year--very nice, talented guy. I doubt that they messed this one up.

Is the name of Aperions Xover designer, Ken Humphries or ? I know Ken designed the ASR patent-pending tweeter from what I have read.

That surely explains why they X'd over at 1.8kHz. from the Woven Kevlar 5" dual mid drivers to the ASR tweeter. But by X'g over at this low a freq. to the Small little tweeter, doesn't that decrease the Power Energy in the room at above this freq. 1.8kHz. due to the fact the smaller drivers volume of air displacement per cycle vs. the larger dual 5" mid-range cone drivers?

Why would the ASR Silk Dome Tweeter roll-off so steep above around 15kHz.? As at 20kHz. they are down -5dB. Is this caused by the mass of the silk dome being to heavy and not being able to keep up at 15kHz. and up?

Does one believe in perceiving higher frequencies than their Ears can hear, as "Airy" in this world? To me, this sounds like a tree falling in the forest and no one is around, is sound generated? Yes! and No!

 

[alphaiii]

You never know - I may feel generous one day - the bass still amazes me.

The stock version has impressive bass for such a small speaker... so I imagine it sounds even better with the upper half of the spectrum tamed down a bit to bring it in line with the woofer...

 

[cschang]

What happened to paper impregnated cones, isn't that Ascend w/ reed impregnated cones drivers...

I believe the mid-woof and woof on the Sierra Tower are mineral-filled polypropylene.

 

[cschang]

Does one believe in perceiving higher frequencies than their Ears can hear, as "Airy" in this world? To me, this sounds like a tree falling in the forest and no one is around, is sound generated? Yes! and No!

You need more experience with this.

BTW...RAAL tweeters extend to 40khz. Do you believe that extra FR between 15khz and 40khz is a waste?

 

[Warpdrv]

Don't forget to add the extremely nice Ceramic Mid of the Accuton...

Its a brittle thing almost like an eggshell... def is one of the best mids I've ever heard.... No ringing of metallic, nor breakup of the likes of kevlar from what I can tell..

I'd add the Salk SoundScape M7 large bookshelf to the mix...
Although IMO one would always need to add a good sub to go along with them.... also beware they are not the most efficient.

 

[lsiberian]

You need more experience with this.

BTW...RAAL tweeters extend to 40khz. Do you believe that extra FR between 15khz and 40khz is a waste?

Mostly. Most audiophiles probably can hear that range and if they can it's not gonna be great. Why devote cost to something we can hear or even feel?

I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. Not that the RAAL tweeter stinks. Nothing wrong with a little overboard.

 

[Warpdrv]

You need more experience with this.

BTW...RAAL tweeters extend to 40khz. Do you believe that extra FR between 15khz and 40khz is a waste?

I'm with lsiberian on this one.... you'll be hard pressed to find darn near anyone that can hear above 18khz...

Average thresholds in the 8 to 20 kHz range in ... [Scand Audiol. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract

The sound-pressure level thresholds in the extended high-frequency range (8 to 20 kHz) were measured in 25 non-hearing-impaired young adults from 20 to 29 years of age. The result was not unlike that obtained by previous investigators; the thresholds increased gradually as a function of frequency. However, two notable points were found: one that the threshold reached a plateau above 18 kHz, and the other that it decreased slightly at 12 kHz. As the subjects might respond to the low-frequency noise of the stimulus wave, the threshold became a plateau above 18 kHz. An acoustic resonance in the ear canal caused the threshold to decrease at 12 kHz. In clinical studies of extended high-frequency audiometry, the threshold data should be carefully evaluated above 18 kHz and at 12 kHz.

With that said, its not what the tweeter delivers in the range that we can't hear, but what it does so magically in the range we can....
IMO its worth the extra money every day of the week...

 

[cpp]

form those that might be able to hear what others can't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G60hM1W_mk

 

[DenPureSound]

Mostly. Most audiophiles probably can hear that range and if they can it's not gonna be great. Why devote cost to something we can hear or even feel?

I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. Not that the RAAL tweeter stinks. Nothing wrong with a little overboard.

DITTO -- put the $$ into the domain that we can hear Period. The rest only looks good in text via our eyeballs, but not our Ears.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

DITTO -- put the $$ into the domain that we can hear Period. The rest only looks good in text via our eyeballs, but not our Ears.

I can hear the sound of FedEx truck.

Has the eagle landed?

Are they in warm & loving environment now?

Pictures maybe?

10-4. Over.

 

[cschang]

Mostly. Most audiophiles probably can hear that range and if they can it's not gonna be great. Why devote cost to something we can hear or even feel?

I'd rather spend the money elsewhere. Not that the RAAL tweeter stinks. Nothing wrong with a little overboard.

I'm with lsiberian on this one.... you'll be hard pressed to find darn near anyone that can hear above 18khz...

Average thresholds in the 8 to 20 kHz range in ... [Scand Audiol. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI


With that said, its not what the tweeter delivers in the range that we can't hear, but what it does so magically in the range we can....
IMO its worth the extra money every day of the week...

Like I mentioned before, it isn't necessarily what we can hear with our ears, and I completely understand and agree with what you guys are stating. But speak to an audiologist about how the rest of the body perceives soundwaves in combination with what we hear.

As for the "air" we hear or perceive with tweeters/treble, I would be surprised if you two do not agree that it is related to the tweeter's extension.

And Warp, I would be very surprised if you would be happy with a speaker that rolled off at 15khz.

 

[cpp]

I'm 59 and anything over 14k can't hear it, so much for fancy speakers with out of this world measurements.

 

[cschang]

I'm 59 and anything over 14k can't hear it, so much for fancy speakers with out of this world measurements.

Can I have your Ushers?

 

[Warpdrv]

And Warp, I would be very surprised if you would be happy with a speaker that rolled off at 15khz.

I'm not saying I would want a speaker that rolled off at 15khz, I'm just saying, if you can't hear over 18khz, whats the point of being concerned about a response that goes to 40khz... Don't sweat it Curtis.... I love my RAAL's and wouldn't trade them for anything !!

I'll take my 20-20khz, but beyond that is just worthless for companies to even pad their specs with... There is no-one PERSON that can hear that high...

I'm going to buy that tweeter so I can piss off all the local area animals... !!!!

 

[Nuance AH]

I think ribbons sound better because they have a much lower mass and also a more linear impedance and extended bandwidth. Well, that probably doesn't apply to all of them, but certainly the good ones I'd think. The limited vertical dispersion also plays as role, as generally the masses will prefer the reflections from the side walls over the ones from the floor and ceiling. Either way, it's all in the ear of the beholder.

 

[cschang]

I'm not saying I would want a speaker that rolled off at 15khz, I'm just saying, if you can't hear over 18khz, whats the point of being concerned about a response that goes to 40khz... Don't sweat it Curtis.... I love my RAAL's and wouldn't trade them for anything !!

I'll take my 20-20khz, but beyond that is just worthless for companies to even pad their specs with... There is no-one PERSON that can hear that high...

I'm going to buy that tweeter so I can piss off all the local area animals... !!!!

I think our points crossed somewhere in the ether....

I'm not saying any one individual has a need for tweeters that extend to 40khz. I'm saying even though you can't hear to 20khz with your ears, the body can still perceive those frequencies in other ways.

 

[cschang]

I think ribbons sound better because they have a much lower mass and also a more linear impedance and extended bandwidth. Well, that probably doesn't apply to all of them, but certainly the good ones I'd think. The limited vertical dispersion also plays as role, as generally the masses will prefer the reflections from the side walls over the ones from the floor and ceiling. Either way, it's all in the ear of the beholder.

Definitely lower mass and stored energy. Then again, I still haven't heard the RAAL.

 

[lsiberian]

As for the "air" we hear or perceive with tweeters/treble, I would be surprised if you two do not agree that it is related to the tweeter's extension.

Not sure the air being offered, but it sounds like fun to me.

The RAALs are incredible tweeters, but could they cost less if they only went to 20khz? This is an engineering question so I approach it as that. I really don't want to pay 600 bucks for a tweeter.

I realize they do have cheaper ones in the 200-300 dollar range, but still 600 bucks worth of tweeters is not my thing.

 

[cpp]

Curtis

Can I have your Ushers?

well the wife still has the ability to hear, so they have to stay.