down to 3 choices

[roadwarrior]

well i remember raising everything up by 5db after running audyssey.

Got it but by "everything" are you referring to the subwoofers levels under the manual speaker settings because that is where those levels should be raised from not the separate Subwoofer Reference Offset or the one under options for individual sources as it's not universal?

so not sure why the test zone for the sub is so low.

If it's not low when running the initial Audyssey setup but it is now then the answer is probably what I was referring to before but you shouldn't really need to do that post Audyssey as long as you've run all available mic positions from at least a foot or 2 away from any boundaries. Checking levels afterwards using the receivers internal test tones doesn't account for the filters set by Audyssey as the manual test tones bypass those filters and can be off as much as 5dB depending. I'd just rerun Audyssey(all mic positions within 1-2 feet of head listening level) and check the sub level offset under manual speaker settings afterwards. Then raise the sub level there accordingly assuming the post Audyssey level offset is a -dB below 12.

during audyssey setup the sub tones was loud like the other speakers.

Because that one is always using the auto test tones. Your subwoofer is fine if that sounded loud enough.

i think ill just start over and rerun audyssey

Probably a good idea.

 

[bradymartin]

Got it but by "everything" are you referring to the subwoofers levels under the manual speaker settings because that is where those levels should be raised from not the separate Subwoofer Reference Offset or the one under options for individual sources as it's not universal?



If it's not low when running the initial Audyssey setup but it is now then the answer is probably what I was referring to before but you shouldn't really need to do that post Audyssey as long as you've run all available mic positions from at least a foot or 2 away from any boundaries. Checking levels afterwards using the receivers internal test tones doesn't account for the filters set by Audyssey as the manual test tones bypass those filters and can be off as much as 5dB depending. I'd just rerun Audyssey(all mic positions within 1-2 feet of head listening level) and check the sub level offset under manual speaker settings afterwards. Then raise the sub level there accordingly assuming the post Audyssey level offset is a -dB below 12.



Because that one is always using the auto test tones. Your subwoofer is fine if that sounded loud enough.



Probably a good idea.

i raised in manual speaker settings and the test tone under options, didnt touch subwoofer reference offset

my denon x3300 tells me to raise or lower volume on back of sub until 75db, then tells me its ok and continue.

i think everything is probably fine but tuning the sub for music plus the towers in stereo mode giving less bass than just the towers alone on direct, and checking test tones the sub barely audible just irks me.

i did just listen to the cd that came with the hsu sub and in stereo mode i could def hear and feel the 16hz and above from the sub, had volume at around 60 on the denon. wasnt loud though but it was there.

 

[roadwarrior]

i raised in manual speaker settings and the test tone under options, didnt touch subwoofer reference offset

Good deal. Yeah, that other feature is best left off. When turned on to it's 0dB preset it bumps up any raised levels under the manual speaker settings from where you've already raised them to 0dB. I.E. an original offset of -10dB raised by you another 5dB gets raised another 5 when SLO gets turned on.

my denon x3300 tells me to raise or lower volume on back of sub until 75db, then tells me its ok and continue.

That's just to get your post Audyssey sub level offset within a +-3dB range. Most ignore it with a higher initial subwoofer gain knob setting and finish the other mic positions to obtain a lower sub level offset post Audyssey from which they raise several dB within the receivers manual speaker settings afterwards. Better to have a-6/-8 dB post Audyssey sub level offset to raise from and still stay under 0dB for headroom.

i think everything is probably fine but tuning the sub for music plus the towers in stereo mode giving less bass than just the towers alone on direct, and checking test tones the sub barely audible just irks me.

Understand. Manually checking levels using the receivers internal test tones can be problematic.

i did just listen to the cd that came with the hsu sub and in stereo mode i could def hear and feel the 16hz and above from the sub, had volume at around 60 on the denon. wasnt loud though but it was there.

Nice they give you a bass test CD. You might place the sub in a corner away from any entryways if it's not already to take advantages of the boundaries. You could also turn the sub 180° with the driver facing the wall where it's already placed. Sometimes a matter of inches with subwoofer placement can make a big difference.

 

[Pogre]

Yeah it's all very confusing. Some makes do it one way and others another way. He's saying he's getting bass from the sub in stereo but that it sound better to him in Direct mode with just his mains. Sounds like the sub levels need to get raised several dB under the manual speaker settings assuming his level offset after running Audyssey is under 0dB.

I kind of understand what he's referring to as I've run my mains without my subs for a couple of weeks breaking in my mains and when I enable my sub's again things sound a bit different but that's the stereo imaging of the mains set full range. I bet once he checks his sub level offset and bumps that up some things we'll sound better.

I get more bass from my towers than I do my subs in direct mode. Sounds like crap to me, but the same happens for me.

Brady, have you run setup and left Audyssey on (dynamic eq also) and lfe only? Also, try giving the subs a 3db bump. My towers are fully capable down to 28Hz and I still use my subs with music. It sounds fuller, fatter and just better with the subs.

 

[bradymartin]

I get more bass from my towers than I do my subs in direct mode. Sounds like crap to me, but the same happens for me.

Brady, have you run setup and left Audyssey on (dynamic eq also) and lfe only? Also, try giving the subs a 3db bump. My towers are fully capable down to 28Hz and I still use my subs with music. It sounds fuller, fatter and just better with the subs.

yeah i left dynamic eq on as well as lfe only. i also upped the sub and all speakers 5db.
my towers alone in direct mode the bass sounds much better, with the sub on stereo the bass is toned down for some reason.

what music mode are you using with your subs and towers? stereo?

 

[lovinthehd]

Why did you raise the speaker levels? Are all speakers set to small?

 

[bradymartin]

audyssey set almost everything to -10 so i raised levels. small room so im sure thats why it set volume so low. speakers are set to small and towers are set to 60. i use stereo mode when i want to use sub and towers with music. im going to check the back of the sub and post settings. maybe something is wrong there

 

[lovinthehd]

The speaker levels are set by a combination of sensitivity of the speakers and distance to your listening position. I wouldn't change the speaker levels after running Audyssey generally. Raising sub level maybe. What do you mean "almost everything" is set to -10? What was/wasn't? What are the particular levels for speakers and sub?

Back of sub you should set the gain in initial setup (to set correct level for the sub at beginning of Audyssey) and then leave it alone and if you want to raise it use only the avr; use the LFE input for the sub and/or make sure the low pass filter is set to max value (some subs using LFE input take the low pass filter out automatically, some don't).

Is Dynamic Volume off?

 

[Pogre]

audyssey set almost everything to -10 so i raised levels. small room so im sure thats why it set volume so low. speakers are set to small and towers are set to 60. i use stereo mode when i want to use sub and towers with music. im going to check the back of the sub and post settings. maybe something is wrong there

HD pretty much covers it, but I'd like to add that if you raise levels on all of your speakers you're completely defeating my suggestion to bump the sub channel only. Distances and levels set by your avr are how it balances your speakers so everything is the same volume at your listening position.

I suggest you start with a new Audyssey measurements and this time leave all of your speakers alone except the subwoofer. Most of us bump it (and only it) up about 3db because it just sounds nicer.

Pure direct, pure direct bloats the bass on my towers to unpleasant sounding levels at full range. I have the ports plugged on them now. This is because i have a wall behind them reinforcing the lower frequencies. It sounds much, much better with Audyssey on, stereo mode, subs on and a 80hz crossover. For music I go with both ports open, eq2, and a q of 0.7. Sounds amazing.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

HD pretty much covers it, but I'd like to add that if you raise levels on all of your speakers you're completely defeating my suggestion to bump the sub channel only. Distances and levels set by your avr are how it balances your speakers so everything is the same volume at your listening position.

I suggest you start with a new Audyssey measurements and this time leave all of your speakers alone except the subwoofer. Most of us bump it (and only it) up about 3db because it just sounds nicer.

Pure direct, pure direct bloats the bass on my towers to unpleasant sounding levels at full range. I have the ports plugged on them now. This is because i have a wall behind them reinforcing the lower frequencies. It sounds much, much better with Audyssey on, stereo mode, subs on and a 80hz crossover. For music I go with both ports open, eq2, and a q of 0.7. Sounds amazing.

J, I was wondering. I know your WAF is at redline right now but have you ever tried moving your mains a little farther into the room? That should help boominess and maybe help imaging some too.(not that its suffering) I snuck mine out about 3' into the room, a couple inches at a time over a month. She never knew, and I got to try different spacing off the front wall.

 

[Pogre]

J, I was wondering. I know your WAF is at redline right now but have you ever tried moving your mains a little farther into the room? That should help boominess and maybe help imaging some too.(not that its suffering) I snuck mine out about 3' into the room, a couple inches at a time over a month. She never knew, and I got to try different spacing off the front wall.

You snuck them out couple inches at a time! LOL! That made me chuckle.

I could do that, but it's not a WAF restriction. There are doors on either side of both speakers. On the right is my front door and on the left i have a sliding glass door. If I push them out too much further they'll be right in front of the doorways. Right now the ports in the backs are 20" away from the back wall.

They're only boomy in pure direct with no filtering and ports open. Audyssey does a pretty good job of balancing things out whether I plug the ports or not. The one thing I really like about the app editor is the ability to save multiple calibration files. I *think* I prefer the sound better with the ports plugged and Audyssey-flat, dynamic eq on. The mid bass seems a little bit puncher and the subs do an awesome job below 80hz.

I have a file saved for watching movies too. I slid the loveseat into the middle of the room and did a calibration for having company over for movie nights.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You snuck them out couple inches at a time! LOL! That made me chuckle.

I could do that, but it's not a WAF restriction. There are doors on either side of both speakers. On the right is my front door and on the left i have a sliding glass door. If I push them out too much further they'll be right in front of the doorways. Right now the ports in the backs are 20" away from the back wall.

They're only boomy in pure direct with no filtering and ports open. Audyssey does a pretty good job of balancing things out whether I plug the ports or not. The one thing I really like about the app editor is the ability to save multiple calibration files. I *think* I prefer the sound better with the ports plugged and Audyssey-flat, dynamic eq on. The mid bass seems a little bit puncher and the subs do an awesome job below 80hz.

I have a file saved for watching movies too. I slid the loveseat into the middle of the room and did a calibration for having company over for movie nights.

Nice! I love that mcacc allows for presets. It was interesting. When we were painting our living room, I brought my S-38's(surrounds) into my bedroom to use as mains I ran a new calibration for them. I have 5.1 Yamaha bookshelf's in there and wow, the difference in correction was huge. Performance increase was even huge-er!!!!!

 

[bradymartin]

i ran audyssey again and same thing. in stereo mode less bass and treble seems toned down. eq2 both ports plugged. woofer on the sub moves.
in direct mode full sound from the towers only, sounds awesome.

on channel level adjust screen, i think audyssey didnt change or reset that. im pretty sure i raised everything by 5. not sure though but maybe i should put everything back to zero. but sub raise by 3db?

also, since the bass on those towers is so awesome im starting to wonder if the sub is even working at all. maybe all the bass in movies is from the towers. the sub woofer moves.
is there a way to test the sub is working?

i used the cd that came with the sub, and i did hear the 16hz and 20hz and above. the towers couldnt make the 16hz and 20hz sounds right?

 

[Pogre]

i ran audyssey again and same thing. in stereo mode less bass and treble seems toned down. eq2 both ports plugged. woofer on the sub moves.
in direct mode full sound from the towers only, sounds awesome.

on channel level adjust screen, i think audyssey didnt change or reset that. im pretty sure i raised everything by 5. not sure though but maybe i should put everything back to zero. but sub raise by 3db?

also, since the bass on those towers is so awesome im starting to wonder if the sub is even working at all. maybe all the bass in movies is from the towers. the sub woofer moves.
is there a way to test the sub is working?

i used the cd that came with the sub, and i did hear the 16hz and 20hz and above. the towers couldnt make the 16hz and 20hz sounds right?

EQ 2 with both ports open is what I suggested. You're not getting max headroom with both ports plugged. Unless you just wanted to try it sealed?

Did you plug 1 port, eq1, q 0.7 (as suggested in the manual) when you ran Audyssey? Also, have you tried moving the subwoofer? Did you bump only the subwoofer channel by 3-5db? You're still trying with all of the channels bumped up 5db? Are you using tones only to judge it? Do you have any bass heavy music you've tried yet? Every time you report back, you change something nobody suggested changing it seems...

Resetting levels to zero? Pretty sure you bumped everything by 5? I've never known Audyssey to set all speakers to zero. Usually it's a mix of a couple bumped up and a couple bumped down.

Start all over.

1. As suggested in your manual, plug 1 port on your sub, set the Q to 0 .7 and the operating mode to eq 1. Turn the volume dial (gain) to12 o'clock (this may need adjusted, XT32 - SubEq should let you know. 12 o'clock is a little hot for my subs).
2. Retake Audyssey measurements. Take all 8, following the pattern on the screen. Even if just in one seat. Audyssey does better work if you take more measurements and move the mic around a little.
3. After taking new Audyssey measurements, in the speakers/speaker config menu, set your speakers to small.
4. In the crossover menu set your crossover to 80hz.
5. In the levels menu do not touch any level adjustments except for your lfe or subwoofer channel. Do not bump ANY of your other speakers. Bump ONLY your subwoofer/lfe 3-5db. Everything should not be at 0. Every speaker has a different response.

I suspect you're getting bass bloat in pure direct. Which might just mean you like your bass more than some. How does it sound in stereo (not direct) Audyssey on, with speakers playing full range, and no sub?

And finally... you will get the most headroom with both ports open, EQ2. You will get deeper bass (below 20hz) with 1 port open, EQ1 but you lose a little oomph overall. I think plugging both ports will give you the poorest performance, IMO, IME, YMMV.

*Edit: If Audyssey sets yor subs to -6, bump it up to -3 or -1 even. Do not adjust any other speaker levels.

 

[bradymartin]

crap, youre right. i did have eq2 and plugged both ports this time when listening to music. first times i tried before running audyssey again i had the sub setup the right way, both ports open eq2
ill try again eq2 both ports open and listen to some heavy bass music.

i did plug one port, eq1 and q0.7 when i ran audyssey the second time.

after running audyssey the first time, i raised everything 5db in channel level adjust and speaker/test tones option.
after running audyssey the second time, the channel level adjust settings were not reset it seems. i believe they stayed the same (i raised them by 5db the first time) in second screen i uploaded. so maybe i should set those back to 0.

"5. In the levels menu do not touch any level adjustments except for your lfe or subwoofer channel. Do not bump ANY of your other speakers. Bump ONLY your subwoofer/lfe 3-5db. Everything should not be at 0. Every speaker has a different response."

youre talking about the channel level adjust screen, the second image i uploaded, correct? i think i remember that screen was set to all 0s, but i upped everythign except surrounds by 5. and it didnt change after second audyssey run.

i cant move the subwoofer, front left corner is only spot it can be placed in the room.

when i reran audyssey i did almost everything as suggested.
except i set the front towers to 60

*Edit: If Audyssey sets yor subs to -6, bump it up to -3 or -1 even. Do not adjust any other speaker levels.

so then youre talking about changing the test tone screen.
but not touch the channel level adjust screen? the one i upped by 5 and stayed that way. so should i put everything back to 0 like it was set the first time, in the channel level adjust option? oh well man this gets frustrating

 

[Pogre]

"5. In the levels menu do not touch any level adjustments except for your lfe or subwoofer channel. Do not bump ANY of your other speakers. Bump ONLY your subwoofer/lfe 3-5db. Everything should not be at 0. Every speaker has a different response."

youre talking about the channel level adjust screen, the second image i uploaded, correct? i think i remember that screen was set to all 0s, but i upped everythign except surrounds by 5. and it didnt change after second audyssey run.

when i reran audyssey i did almost everything as suggested.
except i set the front towers to 60

*Edit: If Audyssey sets yor subs to -6, bump it up to -3 or -1 even. Do not adjust any other speaker levels.

so then youre talking about changing the test tone screen.
but not touch the channel level adjust screen? the one i upped by 5 and stayed that way. so should i put everything back to 0 like it was set the first time, in the channel level adjust option? oh well man this gets frustrating

Okay. I know what you're talking about bumping now. Yes, I was talking about the test tone screen. You can do that also. I think part of what's confusing me is why are you bumping everything? We're going for improved bass response, not make everything louder. Yes, put the main speaker and surrounds back to default (which I believe is 0, like you said) in the channel level adjust menu.

There are like 3 or 4 different ways to adjust levels and that makes it a little more confusing.

 

[roadwarrior]

@Pogre

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If you want to know if it's working, walk over to it and watch the driver, or put your hand on it.

 

[Pogre]

@Pogre

You know, I was starting to get a little impatient then I remembered how confusing all of this was for me when I started learning about this stuff.

@bradymartin, you're fine dude. just follow my instructions above and let us know what you come up with. It could very well be the sub placement, but we gotta get your sub dialed in correctly before we can determine that.

 

[roadwarrior]

You know, I was starting to get a little impatient then I remembered how confusing all of this was for me when I started learning about this stuff.

@bradymartin, you're fine dude. just follow my instructions above and let us know what you come up with. It could very well be the sub placement, but we gotta get your sub dialed in correctly before we can determine that.

Yep same here and I don't even own a modern Denon receiver personally (Denon 2805.) I just read the PDF owners manuals to death and live in their respective owners forums and Audyssey 101 plus most subwoofer threads and have for a few years now and it still makes my head hurt sometimes, lol. That's why I thought your longer post covering it A through Z was so good. This isn't easy stuff and it's easy to get overwhelmed by it all.