Do Amps really have signatures?

[Sylar]

I have come across this one so many times. People talking about amp signatures. Do Amps really have signatures?
If I remember it right, today most amps from quality manufacturers have ruler flat frequency response. This would mean amps have no signature.

Am I right or far from reality?

 

[Matt34]

I have come across this one so many times. People talking about amp signatures. Do Amps really have signatures?
If I remember it right, today most amps from quality manufacturers have ruler flat frequency response. This would mean amps have no signature.

Am I right or far from reality?

There is the possibility of an amp having it's "own sound" whether it's intentional or not. There are a lot of variables that could be the cause and you'll get opinions either way on if it's desirable or not.

My thoughts on it is this: In A/B/X double blinded testing, properly designed amps working within their abilities will be pretty difficult to tell apart.

 

[Alex2507]

There is the possibility of an amp having it's "own sound" whether it's intentional or not. There are a lot of variables that could be the cause and you'll get opinions either way on if it's desirable or not.

My thoughts on it is this: In A/B/X double blinded testing, properly designed amps working within their abilities will be pretty difficult to tell apart.

However an amp with greater abilities ... yes, that's where the money goes.

 

[Sylar]

However an amp with greater abilities ... yes, that's where the money goes.

By abilities are you guys referring to the power section ability to drive speakers of different loads. Troublesome speakers requiring more power and headroom.

 

[Alex2507]

By abilities are you guys referring to the power section ability to drive speakers of different loads. Troublesome speakers requiring more power and headroom.

Yep, being stable at low impedance and output wattage are the biggies.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Put me down as believing that all comparable high quality amps sound exactly the same.

Not just similar, but exactly the same - if volume level matched and driving the same speakers and same setup (bypass all RC, EQ, DSP).

So if you ask this question in 20 years, you will get the same answers - some believe amps sound differently (signature) and some believe amps don't sound differently (no signature).

 

[Irvrobinson]

There is the possibility of an amp having it's "own sound" whether it's intentional or not. There are a lot of variables that could be the cause and you'll get opinions either way on if it's desirable or not.

My thoughts on it is this: In A/B/X double blinded testing, properly designed amps working within their abilities will be pretty difficult to tell apart.

I agree. I can't tell the difference between amps in direct comparison testing, but some amps seem to encourage me to listen endlessly and some give me more listening fatigue. Is the effect real or not? I don't know, but it certainly determines my buying habits. I won't buy expensive amps I can't listen to. I used to be this way with source components, but I think they've improved to the point where the differences can't even be measured properly, no less heard.

 

[ski2xblack]

I agree with Irv and the others. You don't buy and amp to listen to the amp, but to simply amplify the signal so you can listen to music.

But amps that do in fact color the sound may be quite beguiling and seductive. Combine that with a little marketing flim-flam, and you have Bob Carver selling amps that consist of <$1000 worth of parts for five figure prices.

I'm wondering when Gene will finish up and post his full review of the Pass Labs amp he's raved about. He's not expected to be one to fall for audio jewelry, so his take should be interesting. Having been charmed by Pass in the past myself, I'm very curious as to what bench tests will reveal. I'm guessing prominent second or third order harmonic distortion (Mr. Pass uses that as a selling point).

 

[KEW]

Do Amps really have signatures?

Yep, there it is, right at the bottom!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yep, there it is, right at the bottom!

This wins my post-of-the-day award.

 

[M Code]

Put me down as believing that all comparable high quality amps sound exactly the same.

Not just similar, but exactly the same - if volume level matched and driving the same speakers and same setup (bypass all RC, EQ, DSP).

So if you ask this question in 20 years, you will get the same answers - some believe amps sound differently (signature) and some believe amps don't sound differently (no signature).

Amplifers can/will sound differently, depending upon the connected loudspeaker..
Since every loudspeaker presents a different load back to the amplifier, each amplifier's output stage and related protection schemes can/will influence its sonics.. Especially if the loudspeaker is one that is difficult to drive such as an electro-stat or low impedance/sensitivity..

Just my $0.02..

 

[Sylar]

Amplifers can/will sound differently, depending upon the connected loudspeaker..
Since every loudspeaker presents a different load back to the amplifier, each amplifier's output stage and related protection schemes can/will influence its sonics.. Especially if the loudspeaker is one that is difficult to drive such as an electro-stat or low impedance/sensitivity..

I was basically trying to understand, if amps emphasize or suppress sounds in any manner as long as they are being used within the limits they were designed for. When they are used within its designed limits, do they really have ruler flat Frequency responses.

By amps I am basically referring to amps (amp or AVR alike) from manufacturers of the likes Denon, Onkyo, Yam, Marantz, NAD.

I guess I pretty much got an unanimous NO for an answer
So amps seem to have a signature, if it is being used outside its designed limits. Like with a more demanding speaker playing at high output levels. While the reality here is, "the speaker is driving the amp", which is not what we want.

 

[Sylar]

out of curiosity, do the lower end amps from manufacturers of the likes Denon, Onkyo, Yam, Marantz, NAD...use *compromised components*? Or is the difference just the power section? (The other features Is not really relevant for this post. Amplification, low noise, frequency response (phase response?) is what I am looking at)

Comparing such higher and lower end amps/models from "well respected" manufacturers, and driving a speaker which both can drive efficiently, now are there any instances where there are differences?

 

[jinjuku]

Amplifers can/will sound differently, depending upon the connected loudspeaker..
Since every loudspeaker presents a different load back to the amplifier, each amplifier's output stage and related protection schemes can/will influence its sonics.. Especially if the loudspeaker is one that is difficult to drive such as an electro-stat or low impedance/sensitivity..

Just my $0.02..

Then a lot of pro-amps should sound good since they can often drive:
Highly reactive, Low impedance, Wide phase angle loads w/o breaking a sweat.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, if we were vampires, a 1000 yrs from now, people would still be asking this question and get different answers - yes and no.

Do amps sound differently?

Which amps/AVR/ preamp are the best?

Which speakers are the best?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...- some believe amps sound differently (signature) and some believe amps don't sound differently (no signature).

Yes, some only believe they sound different because they are afraid to find out the truth.
On the other hand, other know how they really sound... the same

 

[M Code]

Then a lot of pro-amps should sound good since they can often drive:
Highly reactive, Low impedance, Wide phase angle loads w/o breaking a sweat.

Not necessarily...
Pro audio amplifiers are built 1st for reliability..
2nd for sonic performance.
If a Pro audio amp goes down during a set, it can ruin the performance.
One of the best Pro audio amps ever built was the Crown DC300, extremely reliable almost bulletproof..
However its amplifier topology was quasi-complementary rather then full complimentary, its IM distortion was higher and in home applications sounded harsh..



Just my $0.02..

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yep, there it is, right at the bottom!

It seems I was asleep at the keyboard on this one.

 

[Adam]

yeah, if we were vampires...

I KNEW IT!

 

[Adam]

Yep, there it is, right at the bottom!

That's the first thing that I thought of, too.