DLP vs. LCD Specifically for Games

[GPFault]

Hi guys, I finally finished my theater room and now the only thing between me and my system is a decision. DLP vs. LCD.

I'm hoping to spend somewhere around $5k (less would be even better, but we'll say give or take $2k) for a projector and its uses will be:

#1. Console games (XBox 360, Playstation, Nintendo - not just XBox - and I say that because I see a lot of projector ratings that only use the XBox for games, and the Nintendo consoles have a lot of games with far brighter, more saturated colors for example)
#2. PC games & PC applications
#3. Movies

So given that games an PC are a big priority, I'm thinking that dark blacks are pretty important (DLP).

One non-negotiable for me is the display of text. I can't handle fuzzy or jaggy text, but I haven't really come across any articles that contrast DLP vs. LCD as far as text display goes.

As far as LCD's go, I was looking into the Panasonic PT-AE900U, and for DLP's I'm still not sure. Maybe Infocus or Optoma.

My room is about 15x15, ZERO ambient light (it's in a basement with no windows), and I'm going to be getting about an 8.5 foot screen.

If any of the 'experts' in this forum could shed any light that would help my decision, I'd be extremely appreciative!

GPF.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Overall, I'd say DLP will give you a bit better blacks, but that's a general fact, not an iron clad truism. Given your good level of light control, either technology should give you decent blacks.

Much depends upon how far away you'll sit, the size of screen you want and what type of image you demand. SDE will generally be more noticeable with the 900U than it would be with, say, the Optoma H72. If you need to sit very close to the screen or demand a huge image, I'd say the Optoma may make you happier. It's also a bit brighter.

On the other hand, most inexpensive ($2k-ish) DPLs lack the mounting flexibility of the PT-AE900U. For example, the Panny boasts a 2:1 focus vs 1.2:1 for the Optoma. The Panny also has an excellent physical lens shift vs none for the Optoma. Lastly, some DLPs, including the H72, have large offsets that may limit where you can mount the PJ.

If you're sensitive to noise, the Panny is possibly the quietest digital projector you can buy today. The Optoma is no slouch, but is a tad louder. Probably not an issue while you're gaming, though.

Under $2k, I'd say the Mitsubishi HD1000U is another one to look at. It's bright, quiet and uses the DarkChip 2 DLP. It's about $1,500 which is pretty darned cheap for 720P.

Assuming you require 720P, it would seem the likely contenters are the Panasonic PT-AE900U, the Optoma H72 & the Mitsubishi HD1000U. There are other good ones, of course- the latest Sanyo LCD may also serve you well.

My admitted bias is for DLP, but try to watch one first. A small segment of the population is very sensitive to "rainbows," or color separation artifacts. One-chip DLPs use a spinning multisegment color wheel which can lead some people to percieve the indivual colors in a disconcerting way. Newer PJs use a 4X wheel vs the 2X wheels of older machines, but a few people still can't stand them. If you, or someone who'll be sitting with you, falls into this camp you'd be better off buying a good LCD.

 

[Rob Babcock]

One non-negotiable for me is the display of text. I can't handle fuzzy or jaggy text, but I haven't really come across any articles that contrast DLP vs. LCD as far as text display goes.

This is a side effect of SDE. As a general rule you'll find DLP is better in this regard than LCD.

Ooops...I saw the "+/- $2k" and read it as your budget being $2,000. There's a wealth of great PJs for $5k!

 

[GPFault]

Much depends upon how far away you'll sit, the size of screen you want

I'll be sitting at least 10-12 feet away from the screen. The screen will be around 8 to 8.5 feet horizontal. (So - whatever that makes the diagonal for 16:9)

re: text quality>

This is a side effect of SDE.

Really! I didn't know that. I have seen some DLP projectors that were excellent for movies, but then you put a Nintendo game on them (via Component Video) and the menus and interface text looked terrible. I'll admit I have no idea what makes for crisp vs fuzzy/jagged text on a projector though.

There's a wealth of great PJs for $5k!

If you have anything specifically good for gaming & PC, please do tell!

Assuming you require 720P

Definitely. I wouldn't go less, and I would consider higher but only if I really needed it.

As far as PC resolution goes, I'm a bit strange in that I tend to choose a lower resolution to get larger text & icons than most people who tend to max out whatever their monitors can display. I think my PC is currently running 1152x864 on a 19" screen.

I've read about the rainbow effect and I will definitely try to preview a technically equivalent model to any DLP I'm considering. My vision is exceptional (20/10), but I can't say with any degree of certainty whether or not it will be an issue.

 

[Rob Babcock]

There's really no way to know if 'rainbows' will bother you; it isn't a matter of visual acuity. For all the hype only a relatively small percentage of people see them or are bothered by them, which is logical- otherwise, how could DLP have risen to dominate the market so thoroughly? Still, better safe than sorry.

720P is the limit right now- while many will accept a 1080i input and scale it, no digital projector currently on the market has native resolution of 1080 (or if a new one has hit the market it's well over the $5k range).

The fact that some DLP PJs (or any PJ, for that matter) look better than others is largely the electronics. They all use the same basic DLP panels and TI makes them all. The reason some handle motion better is than some have better scalers. You could conceivably have a PJ that has a crappy scaler/doubler that looks awful thru one input yet give an amazing picture when the scaling is done off board or the native display is used. That's why any given combo of DVD player & PJ may work better with the progressive output enabled or disabled on the DVD player.

Projector Central has many reviews of PJs, and the AH guys have done some as well. Check out their 5-Star review for the Sharp XV-Z3000 Home Theater Projector. Looks like a hot contender at your price point.

Projectors are wonderful devices but a bit complex. You'd be wise to spend a few weeks reading all you can before you pull the trigger. You probably won't end up with a "dog" as some experts claim you have to try hard to find a bad PJ nowadays. It's more likely that rushing to buy something will lead you to choose a solution that's not entirely optimal.

BTW, a screen will have nearly as much impact on the image you get at the PJ. Be sure to budget out enough cash for a good one.

 

[BMXTRIX]

#1. Console games (XBox 360, Playstation, Nintendo - not just XBox - and I say that because I see a lot of projector ratings that only use the XBox for games, and the Nintendo consoles have a lot of games with far brighter, more saturated colors for example)

DLP & LCD will both deliver for you. The Sanyo Z4 is a good deal sharper than the AE900 is, but also delivers less light. At a 100"-110" diagonal, you are better served with a brighter projector. The AE900 is good, but DLP will almost always deliver far more light (25%+ more!) after proper home theater calibration. This can really give the hightlights some real punch to them. If I had the budget (I didn't when I bought) then DLP would be the way to go. With current pricing putting DLP much closer to LCD, I would shoot to get a DLP projector instead of LCD for the better true contrast ratio. The downsides of DLP models has been discussed above, but if you are doing your room from scratch then this likely isn't going to be an issue for you.

#2. PC games & PC applications

PCs + projectors: Let's be very specific here. Almost always, when a PC looks bad on screen it is because the PC is not setup correctly. For best results you absolutely MUST match the output resolution of the PC to the native resolution of the projector. So, a projector like the InFocus IN76 which is 1280x720 resolution really should be fed 1280x720 from your PC. If this is a bit much for you to deal with, or games only like 1024x768 resolution, then perhaps a 15:9 projector, like the Optoma EP1690 will serve you better.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/optoma_ep1690.htm

There are several models that use 1280x768 DLP chips and they kind of give you that happy medium between home theater applications which are 16:9 and PC applications which are easily established at 1024x768. A very personal decision for YOU to make on this one - but at least you have options.

#3. Movies

Movies are, IMO, one of the most forgiving things with projectors. Because there tends to be a lot of movement, and because you can get such excellent DVD players these days, almost any projector you buy that is designed for home theater usage will do a very good job. Once you have the 'decent' home theater projector - you will have good movies on it as long as the DVD player you use doesn't stink.

One non-negotiable for me is the display of text. I can't handle fuzzy or jaggy text, but I haven't really come across any articles that contrast DLP vs. LCD as far as text display goes.

Text is kind of covered above - but let's focus on it a bit more. Text is a function of what resolution the material you are sending to the projector is. With a PC, if you match the resolution of the PC to the projector, then the text will be pixel-for-pixel accurate and look perfect on screen. Video games are a different story though. The video that is output from a video game is often blurry from the start. It often has some aliasing and imperfections that will hinder the quality. PS2 is not going to ever deliver the way an X360 will or the upcoming PS3 will since the technology is over half a decade old and it was designed for connectivity to a standard 480i television. Likewise, subtitles on DVDs may not appear perfect. But, a better DVD player will do a better job with this and good upconversion can match text for subtitles far better than cheap DVD players.

A good screen, as mentioned, can be a big plus, but in my experience, something like the Carada Critereon screen w/Brilliant White material can do a phenomenal job in a theater black environment and is my goto screen 90% of the time.

 

[GPFault]

Thanks for the replies guys, what about latency in LCD vs DLP? Is there any difference?

Take a music game like Dance Dance Revolution, Guitar Hero, or something where millisecond-accuracy matters. If there's a 10 or 20 millisecond lag between the rendering of the frame on the hardware and me seeing it, that would make the game unplayable (for me).

I'm not even sure if latency is an issue on the newer units, but figured I'd ask if LCD vs. DLP has any bearing on this.

GPF.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Latency isn't the right term for what you are asking. Latency is an issue with LCD flat panels, and that's about it. Projection LCD doesn't have an issue and DLP or LCoS don't either.

But, image processing is projector dependent and could cause a few ms delay in the video going into the projector and being displayed on screen. Keep in mind though, video at the FASTEST currently only delivers at 60hz which is about 17ms per frame on screen. So, if a 10-20ms delay hurts you, then the game is very poorly designed as ALL displays only can update at about 17ms at the quickest except for some nicer PC displays which can run 80+hz for refresh and as analog displays take video straight to the screen.

Bottom line: It should not be an issue with almost any display, but if it IS an issue, it won't be DLP/LCD dependent, but will be specific to the projector in use or the manufacturer. I play PS2 on my 3 year old Panasonic all the time without issue - including DDR, etc.

 

[kkrambo]

I believe that text from a standard definition console such as Nintendo or PS2 will look blurry on an 8 foot wide screen no matter what projector you use. It's more a function of the original standard definition material then the projector.

I have a PS2 connected to my Sanyo PLZ-4 projected onto a screen that is about 7 foot wide. I sit about 11 feet away. Text looks a little blurry as do all standard definition TV channels. The text is readable and standard definition is watchable, the source material just lacks the resolution that the projector is capable of. High Definition sources, however, look incredible! I don't have an XBox-360 -- I'm planning to get a PS3. I'm expecting HD games to look incredible and the text to be sharp. I'll probably pass on the Nintendo Wii simply because it won't be HD.

My Sanyo PLZ-4 has a screen mode called "Normal Through" which displays about a 50" diagonal 4:3 image as oppossed my normal 94" diagonal 16:9 image. Sometimes I use this smaller image for standard definition material for a sharper image.

 

[GPFault]

Yeah, from what I'm reading, it seems the biggest issues with games are the different souce signals coming in that need to get translated to the projector's native resolution.

Would a really nice external scaler help that at all?

My only concern is that an external scaler might add [even more] lag and the time-critical games (like fighting or music games) would become [even more] unplayable.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

GPF.