Denon Total Harmonic Distortion [THD]

[Teetertotter?]

I looked at 3 Denon AVRs, with having the same audio specs. I currently have, their 5 year old S-960, and looking at their X1700 and X2800, all with the same audio spec. With having the same audio specs, does that mean the units will all produce the same sound output? Meaning, will the bass, mids, and highs, produce the same sounds through my speakers? Is there something that the audio could be different in each AVR.?

 

[Teetertotter?]

Denon got back to say that audio software can be different, which was the case with S960 and the X1700. X1700 software is better and AVR available at Denon website. I might buy, as within my budget. There was one reputable YT reviewer that had tested the S-960 in a separate review and said the S-960 was audio junk, Later, he reviewed the X1700 and audio was a world of difference over the S-960.

 

[highfigh]

Denon got back to say that audio software can be different, which was the case with S960 and the X1700. X1700 software is better and AVR available at Denon website. I might buy, as within my budget. There was one reputable YT reviewer that had tested the S-960 in a separate review and said the S-960 was audio junk, Later, he reviewed the X1700 and audio was a world of difference over the S-960.

Who is this 'reputable' YT reviewer?

 

[lovinthehd]

Reputable and YT reviewer often don't go together; there is not a world of difference between those two models in any case. The difference IME with various avrs will be primarily in the eq/dsp for different "sounds" and if the amp section is sufficient for your use. A thd rating alone doesn't tell you a lot, either, altho most have sufficiently low thd where that's not a concern.

 

[m. zillch]

THD of .0001%, .001%, .01%, and .1%, all sound the same to the human ear playing music, inaudible, so where a product falls between those doesn't much matter. Heck even 1% is often tricky to detect with most music material and back when studios used analog tape recorders (nearly all music recorded before the 1980s) it was not unusual for them to allow the musical peaks to occasionally even hit 3% THD, albeit for only a tiny fraction of a second.

Also if you knew how much harmonic distortion your speakers were pumping out into the room, even very expensive ones, you'd realize worrying about your amplification stage distortion (when properly kept below clipping) seems rather trivial in comparison.

 

[mtrycrafts]

THD of .0001%, .001%, .01%, and .1%, all sound the same to the human ear playing music, inaudible, so where a product falls between those doesn't much matter. Heck even 1% is often tricky to detect with most music material and back when studios used analog tape recorders (nearly all music recorded before the 1980s) it was not unusual for them to allow the musical peaks to occasionally even hit 3% THD, albeit for only a tiny fraction of a second.

Also if you knew how much harmonic distortion your speakers were pumping out into the room, even very expensive ones, you'd realize worrying about your amplification stage distortion (when properly kept below clipping) seems rather trivial in comparison.

Not to mention the ability at the low frequencies.

 

[TankTop5]

The answer is no, but yes and then again no. The equipment and sound quality is beyond human hearing so it n general, the answer is it doesn’t matter. But, depending on the leakers and your listening level preference along with speaker choice there could be an audible difference. If your amp cannot power the speakers at your preferred listening volume and your listened distance. I’m n reality, any of these pieces of equipment can drive most speakers to uncomfortable levels

 

[Teetertotter?]

Who is this 'reputable' YT reviewer?

Andrew Robinson on you tube on Denons X1700H and some others. See his review here:
Bing Videos

My HT room is 8x12, small, so 80 watts is just fine. Audyssey XT has a little better performance spec and tweaks. The 5 year old, Denon S-960H has been good with audio and video. I'm a movie person and will see if there is any clarity/distinct sound difference, with the Denon X1700H, over the old S-960H. If the same, I'm good with that.

I look forward to continued enjoyment, of watching/hearing movies with the X1700H. It is to be delivered tomorrow, from Denon.

 

[lovinthehd]

LOL Andrew Robinson is not particularly reliable....not even in print.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Andrew Robinson on you tube on Denons X1700H and some others. See his review here:
Bing Videos

My HT room is 8x12, small, ...

Sorry to hear that. My walk-in closet is that size.

 

[Teetertotter?]

LOL Andrew Robinson is not particularly reliable....not even in print.

Show me?

We will see if this X1700H with XT performs better than my old S-960H. No worries, my friend. Have a happy day.

 

[Teetertotter?]

Sorry to hear that. My walk-in closet is that size.

What size room should I have for up close watching, listening, for one person? So, what are you worried about??? I have complete engulfed surround at low or higher volume. One makes do with what they have.

 

[resqguy]

The debate over THD has probably been going on since the invention of the Fleming valve. Long before the introduction of the DSP stage in the audio stream, the value of THD specs and their impact on sound quality has been discussed Ad nauseam. From the perspective of an Electrical Engineer, the THD spec relates more to the design of the electronic gear then it does for sound quality. THD specs are measured using electronic instruments and not the human ear. Think of it as more as a quality control step for the design and less of predictor or measurement of how the device will actually sound. Amps with identical THD specs can have very different sound characteristics.

As long as the THD falls within a reasonable (non-audible) range, I would not use it to gauge how an AVR will ultimately sound. You my find an AVR with % 0.08 THD 20-20k @ rated output, sounds better one rated at % 0.06 under the same test conditions.

 

[lovinthehd]

Show me?

We will see if this X1700H with XT performs better than my old S-960H. No worries, my friend. Have a happy day.

Show you what? If you like his subjective opinions or products he's hyping, go for it.

 

[PENG]

I looked at 3 Denon AVRs, with having the same audio specs. I currently have, their 5 year old S-960, and looking at their X1700 and X2800, all with the same audio spec. With having the same audio specs, does that mean the units will all produce the same sound output? Meaning, will the bass, mids, and highs, produce the same sounds through my speakers? Is there something that the audio could be different in each AVR.?

If you are in the US or Canada, I would highly recommend the X1800H (assuming you can still return the X1700H), it has the best specs among the 3 because it has pre outs and preamp mode for the front left/right channels so you will have an upgrade path by using a two channel stereo power amp in and when you need more juice for whatever reasons.

The EU models don 't have this feature and the X2800H, for unknown reason, also do not have this feature.

 

[PENG]

Show me?

We will see if this X1700H with XT performs better than my old S-960H. No worries, my friend. Have a happy day.

If you watch enough of Mr. Robinson's videos, you might also conclude that while he is an excellent presenters and have lively facial expressions, and often have a something like a guest speaker (forgot her name), their so called "reviews" really cannot be taken seriously, but again, as presenters, they could be entertaining because they are really good communicators.

 

[Teetertotter?]

@lovinthehd, previously said, "Andrew Robinson is not particularly reliable.....and in print." What backs you up with that statement, is the question? Where isn't he not very reliable, to be specific? Any examples, would be appreciated.

By the way, my new Denon X1700H, delivers better colorful and distinct sounds/audio, through my speakers, when watching MOVIES, over the old S-960H. Perhaps, improvement, is due to some Processer or Software change? For my small dedicated room, for one person, this new Denon is great, for my applications. Andrew Robinson was right.......IMO. See you around the campus, next time.

 

[lovinthehd]

@lovinthehd, previously said, "Andrew Robinson is not particularly reliable.....and in print." What backs you up with that statement, is the question? Where isn't he not very reliable, to be specific? Any examples, would be appreciated.

By the way, my new Denon X1700H, delivers better colorful and distinct sounds/audio, through my speakers, when watching MOVIES, over the old S-960H. Perhaps, improvement, is due to some Processer or Software change? For my small dedicated room, for one person, this new Denon is great, for my applications. Andrew Robinson was right.......IMO. See you around the campus, next time.

He's a talking head for the most part, nothing technical, just subjective opinions for promoted goods; If you find that useful, go for it. I used to read some of his articles and watched his videos when he first started going that way. Just won't provide anything particularly critical or even informational in some cases. Your new avr may have better processing, are you using Audyssey? The X1700 has a better version. Colorful and distinct ? What does that even mean?

ps otoh why do you particularly put trust into Robinson?