Denon PMA-A110 Integrated Amplifier Review

[PENG]

Hello

I would be interested in the differences to the PMA-1700NE. A Japanese magazine called it something like the "poor man's A-110." I guess the specs are not too different. The differences in sound I would found most interesting. By the official specs the A-110 needs a lot more power by running the unit. Maybe there is a higher Cass-A bias with the A-110.

Best regards

Florian

Comparing specs is always interesting because most of the time you don't see the details. For example, the power consumption figures are not defined, or defined by the manufacturer who may or may not apply the same rules, basis, to the individual products you are comparing.

In this case, the PMA-110 has higher power consumption specs (400 W vs 295 W) than the 1700NE, but again, we don't know if those two numbers are based on the same rules/basis. Yes the bias will likely be different, but the preamp section could also be very different. For one thing, the 110 has twice as many DACs and probably DAC chips that needs more power whereas the cheaper 1700NE may use those low power type DACs such as those ESS makes. The 110 also has USB DAC, so overall the A110 may have a lot more parts, and they all consume power, and add up to the higher total consumption when compared apples-apples basis.

 

[lovinthehd]

Seems like a good place to drop this article https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings

 

[woodchamber]

I got a small power consumption meter, nothing professional. The PMA-1700NE needs without DAC (Analog Modus) around 100W, and with DAC 110W.

 

[Trell]

I got a small power consumption meter, nothing professional. The PMA-1700NE needs without DAC (Analog Modus) around 100W, and with DAC 110W.

This is power consumption when it’s idling, that is, powered on but not playing?

 

[woodchamber]

Hello Trell

Just playing music moderate with volume knob at 9 o'clock .

 

[Trell]

Hello Trell

Just playing music moderate with volume knob at 9 o'clock .

Do you recall what the power consumption was during idling? I’m just curious, that’s all.

 

[PENG]

Do you recall what the power consumption was during idling? I’m just curious, that’s all.

Me too, and I'll bet if his "moderate" means less than 70 dB from 10 ft, then the difference between that and at volume 0/minimum (I try to avoid idling, not being sure about what it might mean for the specific model) would be very negligible, may be 1 W difference.. For such small difference, those simple power consumption meters are not really suitable for the job.

 

[adk highlander]

I cannot comment on power consumption but I have the PMA-1600NE and I love it. It pushes my Dali's nicely. I use an external DAC and no TT.

 

[rohurulz]

Reviving this thread..
I have recently bought a pma a110. I am in love with the DAC of the 110 but need a more powerful amp to handle my Focal n2s which sometimes drop below 4 ohms at higher volumes causing the 110 to go into protection. Therefore, since I also have a poa 2400 power amp with a pra 1200 pre, I plan to use the recorder out of the 110 into the pre in of the 1200 and finally to the line in of the poa-2400. Will this work? Will it enable me to use the pma a110 as a dac, the pra 1200 as a pre and poa 2400 as a power?

While I understand the recorder out is a fixed level output on the PMA a110, what I am unsure is whether the output will be post the preamplification stage leading to a double amplification in the pra 1200 leading to potential distortion..

Happy to know everyone's thoughts..

 

[TLS Guy]

Reviving this thread..
I have recently bought a pma a110. I am in love with the DAC of the 110 but need a more powerful amp to handle my Focal n2s which sometimes drop below 4 ohms at higher volumes causing the 110 to go into protection. Therefore, since I also have a poa 2400 power amp with a pra 1200 pre, I plan to use the recorder out of the 110 into the pre in of the 1200 and finally to the line in of the poa-2400. Will this work? Will it enable me to use the pma a110 as a dac, the pra 1200 as a pre and poa 2400 as a power?

While I understand the recorder out is a fixed level output on the PMA a110, what I am unsure is whether the output will be post the preamplification stage leading to a double amplification in the pra 1200 leading to potential distortion..

Happy to know everyone's thoughts..

This sort of post makes me sad, and frankly irritated. It really epitomizes everything that is wrong with the audio industry at the moment.

There really is no proper guidance to avoid frankly the far too many not very well engineered and thought out products. So to the non technically inclined it becomes a lottery whether you end up with a match made in Heaven or Hell. Unfortunately yours is the latter.

Let's take the speakers first, they appear likely to be speakers that could sound above the average. Calling them nominally 8 ohm speakers is a bare faced lie. They do quote a minimum impedance of 3.1 ohms and the initiated know this number is more likely than not to be closer to the real impedance.

Now, the impedance is around three ohms in the major power band, but above usual sub range. Not only that but in that range the phase angles are strongly negative, making the amp see demands for current lower than the impedance would suggest.

Now lets take this way overpriced amp, of modest power and lacking bass management and any HDMI connectivity. The review here says "it sounds bigger than its power would suggest". Well that is obviously bunk. For that money it should not go into protection driving those speakers. So it is a not very powerful amp and on the frail end of the spectrum.

So there you have it, and if you keep sending your Denon integrated amp into protection you won't have it very long except as a boat anchor.

That is not the amp to drive those speakers. You need a preamp and separate power amp stable down to around 2 ohms to safely drive those speakers. You have to be experienced to discern that though.

Soundbar anyone?

What a disgrace.

 

[lovinthehd]

Reviving this thread..
I have recently bought a pma a110. I am in love with the DAC of the 110 but need a more powerful amp to handle my Focal n2s which sometimes drop below 4 ohms at higher volumes causing the 110 to go into protection. Therefore, since I also have a poa 2400 power amp with a pra 1200 pre, I plan to use the recorder out of the 110 into the pre in of the 1200 and finally to the line in of the poa-2400. Will this work? Will it enable me to use the pma a110 as a dac, the pra 1200 as a pre and poa 2400 as a power?

While I understand the recorder out is a fixed level output on the PMA a110, what I am unsure is whether the output will be post the preamplification stage leading to a double amplification in the pra 1200 leading to potential distortion..

Happy to know everyone's thoughts..

Yeah, that should work but that's kind of a waste of the 110 as a dac only....but if you have the real estate and boxes already, why not. Why would a pre-amp have a pre-in (just what is a pre-in)? I'd think any of the inputs would work other than phono. I'd imagine the rec-out would bypass the pre-amp, otherwise it would have volume control.

 

[isolar8001]

4 grand for that amp ??
Has Denon become Bose ??
It's got some good numbers, except for ya know...being an amp.

 

[gene]

Reviving this thread..
I have recently bought a pma a110. I am in love with the DAC of the 110 but need a more powerful amp to handle my Focal n2s which sometimes drop below 4 ohms at higher volumes causing the 110 to go into protection. Therefore, since I also have a poa 2400 power amp with a pra 1200 pre, I plan to use the recorder out of the 110 into the pre in of the 1200 and finally to the line in of the poa-2400. Will this work? Will it enable me to use the pma a110 as a dac, the pra 1200 as a pre and poa 2400 as a power?

While I understand the recorder out is a fixed level output on the PMA a110, what I am unsure is whether the output will be post the preamplification stage leading to a double amplification in the pra 1200 leading to potential distortion..

Happy to know everyone's thoughts..

I'm very surprised your PMA-110 goes into protection w a 4ohm speaker like a Focal. I ran the PMA-A110 into 2 ohms continuously and it was stable. The amp is a true beast for what it is. The only thing I can think is there's something wrong with your unit or you may have a short in the connection (whiskers at the amp or speaker side) or something really funky is going on with the crossovers in your speakers. The PMA-A110 should have no issues driving Kanta No.2.

The fixed record out doesn't "double amplify" but you won't have level control w the master volume of the A110 so it would be very difficult to make that work the way you want it to unless you use a separate preamp as you suggested but that's a waste of the A110 to only use it as a DAC.

 

[gene]

This sort of post makes me sad, and frankly irritated. It really epitomizes everything that is wrong with the audio industry at the moment.

There really is no proper guidance to avoid frankly the far too many not very well engineered and thought out products. So to the non technically inclined it becomes a lottery whether you end up with a match made in Heaven or Hell. Unfortunately yours is the latter.

Let's take the speakers first, they appear likely to be speakers that could sound above the average. Calling them nominally 8 ohm speakers is a bare faced lie. They do quote a minimum impedance of 3.1 ohms and the initiated know this number is more likely than not to be closer to the real impedance.

Now, the impedance is around three ohms in the major power band, but above usual sub range. Not only that but in that range the phase angles are strongly negative, making the amp see demands for current lower than the impedance would suggest.

Now lets take this way overpriced amp, of modest power and lacking bass management and any HDMI connectivity. The review here says "it sounds bigger than its power would suggest". Well that is obviously bunk. For that money it should not go into protection driving those speakers. So it is a not very powerful amp and on the frail end of the spectrum.

So there you have it, and if you keep sending your Denon integrated amp into protection you won't have it very long except as a boat anchor.

That is not the amp to drive those speakers. You need a preamp and separate power amp stable down to around 2 ohms to safely drive those speakers. You have to be experienced to discern that though.

Soundbar anyone?

What a disgrace.

You're making way too many assumptions based on the post under question. WE know very little about the circumstances of his system and unit in question. I run 4 ohm Revel F328be at ear bleeding levels without incident on my PMA-110. The power plant is solid on this unit all the way down to 2 ohms from my testing. My only complaints about the A110 is the lack of sub out and/or stereo pre outs. HDMI eARC would have been a nice feature but you can still use toslink from an HDTV into the unit if you want to stream your apps from your TV.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm very surprised your PMA-110 goes into protection w a 4ohm speaker like a Focal. I ran the PMA-A110 into 2 ohms continuously and it was stable. The amp is a true beast for what it is. The only thing I can think is there's something wrong with your unit or you may have a short in the connection (whiskers at the amp or speaker side) or something really funky is going on with the crossovers in your speakers. The PMA-A110 should have no issues driving Kanta No.2.

The fixed record out doesn't "double amplify" but you won't have level control w the master volume of the A110 so it would be very difficult to make that work the way you want it to.

Interesting on this amp but why couldn't he use it as proposed?

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, that should work but that's kind of a waste of the 110 as a dac only....but if you have the real estate and boxes already, why not. Why would a pre-amp have a pre-in (just what is a pre-in)? I'd think any of the inputs would work other than phono. I'd imagine the rec-out would bypass the pre-amp, otherwise it would have volume control.

It might work if the levels match. The pre-out from the 110 will have no volume control. It could overload the input of the preamp.

I would recommend offloading that Denon. DACs are DACs, and I think they all sound pretty much the same. I would not be able to tell which DAC I am using. Parsing the sound of DACs gets you into Audiophilia territory.

My advice is to get a good preamp with digital inputs including HDMI, and bass management and connect to your power amp.

That 110 was a bad purchase. Dump it.

 

[TLS Guy]

You're making way too many assumptions based on the post under question. WE know very little about the circumstances of his system and unit in question. I run 4 ohm Revel F328be at ear bleeding levels without incident on my PMA-110. The power plant is solid on this unit all the way down to 2 ohms from my testing. My only complaints about the A110 is the lack of sub out and/or stereo pre outs. HDMI eARC would have been a nice feature but you can still use toslink from an HDTV into the unit if you want to stream your apps from your TV.

The bottom line is that it goes into protection driving his speakers at the levels he desires. The fact that it did not driving the Revels does not help the op solve his problem.

This again speaks to the fact that power amps belong in the speakers, and that is the direction we should head.

 

[lovinthehd]

@rohurulz just how loud do you want at what distance from your speakers?

If it isn't the amp being defective, rereading the measurements, what else might be going on?

 

[gene]

The bottom line is that it goes into protection driving his speakers at the levels he desires. The fact that it did not driving the Revels does not help the op solve his problem.

This again speaks to the fact that power amps belong in the speakers, and that is the direction we should head.

I would never put power amps inside speakers if it can be avoided. I do prefer rackmount amps and active speakers over passive but I still suspect there's something wrong with his A110 or there are whiskers on the cable connections that could be shorting the unit. I've driven the A110 with a host of speakers including Kanta No2s and never experienced this problem. He should reach out to his dealer and ask for an exchange if the problem persists.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Reviving this thread..
I have recently bought a pma a110. I am in love with the DAC of the 110 but need a more powerful amp to handle my Focal n2s which sometimes drop below 4 ohms at higher volumes causing the 110 to go into protection. Therefore, since I also have a poa 2400 power amp with a pra 1200 pre, I plan to use the recorder out of the 110 into the pre in of the 1200 and finally to the line in of the poa-2400. Will this work? Will it enable me to use the pma a110 as a dac, the pra 1200 as a pre and poa 2400 as a power?

While I understand the recorder out is a fixed level output on the PMA a110, what I am unsure is whether the output will be post the preamplification stage leading to a double amplification in the pra 1200 leading to potential distortion..

Happy to know everyone's thoughts..

I used to own a 50WPC $500 AVR that powered my towers that sometimes go down to 2.7 ohms. Never ever went into protection/shutdown.

So I doubt the amp needs more power unless your volume is 110dB.