Denon New AV Receivers have 4 Features Nobody Else Has!

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Both are pretty amazing values in my opinion (if one can say that about things costing this much). I would say the x8500 is the better value:
-With custom amp assign, you can disconnect any channel to get max performance with external amps. Being able to use the internal amplification for surrounds while disconnecting R/L/C is really a great feature for those wanting to use external amps on some channels
-Have the extra pair of speaker terminals you can get automatically speaker layouts used for Atmos/Auro3d/DTSx
If you don’t need 8K, I would get an X8500 which can be had around $2999 (open box full warranty) from places like safeandsoundhq. If/when 8K becomes an issue, it can be sent in for upgrade.
And, for those who believes the DAC chip can make an audible difference, the 8500 has the ex flagship AK4490, 8 of them iirc, as they are 2 channel stereo chips.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Would be hugely appreciated if you can post photos or videos of this feature. I didn't know it was even possible on the 8500, I thought is was all or nothing. Disconnecting amps and select which internal amps should be connected so that the AVR can act as a pure processor is what I'm after.

On my current Marantz 7011 I selected the 11.1 amp assign and selected the mains as pre outs. I also set the back surrounds on "none", because I don't use them. But with the 7011 all internal amps are always connected, no matter the amp assign.
Not true, the way you did it, the front left and right will be disconnected, the other 7 amps will remain connected.
 
I

IMWhizzle

Audioholic Intern
Not true, the way you did it, the front left and right will be disconnected, the other 7 amps will remain connected.
I’m sorry, I was referring to the back surrounds speakers. Although I set them to “none”, they are not disconnected.

For the mains they indeed are disconnected.
 
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
Would be hugely appreciated if you can post photos or videos of this feature. I didn't know it was even possible on the 8500, I thought is was all or nothing. Disconnecting amps and select which internal amps should be connected so that the AVR can act as a pure processor is what I'm after.

On my current Marantz 7011 I selected the 11.1 amp assign and selected the mains as pre outs. I also set the back surrounds on "none", because I don't use them. But with the 7011 all internal amps are always connected, no matter the amp assign.
In the Denon if you go to:
Speakers>Manual Setup>Amp Assign and change Assign Mode to “Custom” click on “settings”. Here I have changed the speaker terminals to “none” meaning disconnected. You can do this with any of the channels. There are other ways this feature as well, but disconnecting the amps is one of them. Basically you can have the any speaker terminal be any channel you want, or just none and disconnect them.
 

Attachments

I

IMWhizzle

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for sharing this. This is exactly what I’m looking for. I’m waiting for the updated version of the 8500 to be released with the new HDMI board out of the box. Hopefully it comes out soon. Thanks for the explanation and the pictures.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
The one Feature the amp Disconnect now that is good. But does it get hot at Reference level. I'm sure it does. Even a Yamaha will get very warm to the Touch at Reference level.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for sharing this. This is exactly what I’m looking for. I’m waiting for the updated version of the 8500 to be released with the new HDMI board out of the box. Hopefully it comes out soon. Thanks for the explanation and the pictures.
Now I can start another poll, but more for real this time, and I think I can count on you as one who would vote "yes".:D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The one Feature the amp Disconnect now that is good. But does it get hot at Reference level. I'm sure it does. Even a Yamaha will get very warm to the Touch at Reference level.
That's why Gene is asking/suggesting them to have Eco mode turned on automatically if pre-amp mode is engaged. For the X8500H, and its successor, it is better to leave it an manual option though for the obvious reason.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
That's why Gene is asking/suggesting them to have Eco mode turned on automatically if pre-amp mode is engaged. For the X8500H, and its successor, it is better to leave it an manual option though for the obvious reason.
Did think of that, makes sense to have Eco come on.
Conserve energy to, keeping heat down on any Electronics is a good thing
 
T

tparm

Audioholic
Yes. To my knowledge it is the only Denon/Marantz that has this feature. With it you can reassign the amp to another use such as zone 2 or zone 3, or it has the option to set it to none.View attachment 36876
I looked through the manual for the 3700, doesn’t appear this is an option, right?
 
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
I looked through the manual for the 3700, doesn’t appear this is an option, right?
Correct. My understanding is that only the x8500 has this as it is the only one with Custom Amp Assign.
 
J

JDmsz

Audioholic Intern
I have a denon x4200w. Is it worth upgrading to the 4700h since it has a 32 bit dac? Am I missing out on the Audyssey app as well to fine tune the graphs?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
I have a denon x4200w. Is it worth upgrading to the 4700h since it has a 32 bit dac? Am I missing out on the Audyssey app as well to fine tune the graphs?
I love the access I have to XT32 and the Aud App...
Unless you are in need of an upgrade (looming failures, for example, or obsolete technology (really need to have that 2,1?)), I would at least wait until the 4700 goes on discount.
:cool:
And then perhaps consider the 6700.
:p

Seriously, and more to the point, is there anything you are unhappy with in the performance of your AVR right now?
 
J

JDmsz

Audioholic Intern
Seriously, and more to the point, is there anything you are unhappy with in the performance of your AVR right now?
eARC and 2 channel stereo music listening that's about it. Movies sound just fine for me.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
eARC and 2 channel stereo music listening that's about it. Movies sound just fine for me.
I'm on an SR 6012... you might be a year older than I am? *shrugs.
If eARC is the thing for you, then do it, but frankly I don't think the cost of upgrade now is worth the cost.
The caveat would be that you are upgrading your Video side and can benefit NOW from all that the new gear has to offer.
Only you can decide that for yourself.
My goal is upgrading to something that will allow flexibility in adapting .6 atmos to my needs and fully customizable Amp Assign. The 6700 is SOOOOOO close to that it hurts! ;) And the 8500 doesn't feature the new video technology to go with the Amp Assign feature. FTW! ;)

Needless to say, I'm waiting. Unless your need/want outweighs the cost and your disposable income... :)
...I'd say hold off a bit longer. :D
 
J

JDmsz

Audioholic Intern
I'm on an SR 6012... you might be a year older than I am? *shrugs.
If eARC is the thing for you, then do it, but frankly I don't think the cost of upgrade now is worth the cost.
The caveat would be that you are upgrading your Video side and can benefit NOW from all that the new gear has to offer.
Only you can decide that for yourself.
My goal is upgrading to something that will allow flexibility in adapting .6 atmos to my needs and fully customizable Amp Assign. The 6700 is SOOOOOO close to that it hurts! ;) And the 8500 doesn't feature the new video technology to go with the Amp Assign feature. FTW! ;)

Needless to say, I'm waiting. Unless your need/want outweighs the cost and your disposable income... :)
...I'd say hold off a bit longer. :D
Yeah i might just see what marantz have to offer (most likely the same features) but I'll benefit from marantz on the music end because buyers swear marantz is perfect for music.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Spartan
Yeah i might just see what marantz have to offer (most likely the same features) but I'll benefit from marantz on the music end because buyers swear marantz is perfect for music.
1591667182677.png

I own a Marantz in a Music First system and am considering switching to Denon. ;) Or the HTP-1 from Mono-Mono. Time will tell. But I'm going to wait until the stars align if needs be!
2.1 HDMI
.6 Atmos with flexibility of speaker placement
eARC
Customizable Amp Assign per channel (If an AVR).

:D
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
View attachment 36949
I own a Marantz in a Music First system and am considering switching to Denon. ;) Or the HTP-1 from Mono-Mono. Time will tell. But I'm going to wait until the stars align if needs be!
2.1 HDMI
.6 Atmos with flexibility of speaker placement
eARC
Customizable Amp Assign per channel (If an AVR).

:D
Wait for a full Moon to commit to switching! Oh No! It's not a Moon amplifier! :D
 
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
I'm on an SR 6012... you might be a year older than I am? *shrugs.
If eARC is the thing for you, then do it, but frankly I don't think the cost of upgrade now is worth the cost.
The caveat would be that you are upgrading your Video side and can benefit NOW from all that the new gear has to offer.
Only you can decide that for yourself.
My goal is upgrading to something that will allow flexibility in adapting .6 atmos to my needs and fully customizable Amp Assign. The 6700 is SOOOOOO close to that it hurts! ;) And the 8500 doesn't feature the new video technology to go with the Amp Assign feature. FTW! ;)

Needless to say, I'm waiting. Unless your need/want outweighs the cost and your disposable income... :)
...I'd say hold off a bit longer. :D
Wouldn’t the new 8500a do all you want? Or get an 8500 now and upgrade HDMI when the upgrade module is available?
 
T

tparm

Audioholic
No he didn't say that, he just said disconnect. In fact, he had previously said Denon's preamp mode (dated back to the older models such as the X7200W and 4520) were not truly preamp mode because the power amp sections were still powered. As far as I know, no AVRs have the power disconnect feature. In the Y-tube video he even asked the Denon reps if in this so called preamp mode for the 2020 models, would automatically switch ECO to "ON', in order to run cooler by lowering the rail voltage, implying power is still on.

Regardless, in terms of audio performance it should not matter because if you look at the ASR measurements, the reviewer (Amir) have already verified that even just by disconnecting the pre-outs to the power amp inputs, the AVR-X3600H measured just a touch below the $4999 Emotiva prepro but better than the Marantz AV7705 and TLSGuy seems to like. In fact, the Denon AVR also measured better than the Marantz current AVP flagship AV8805. The Marantz are real AVPs, i.e. without power amps, so we should be able to logically assume while disconnecting the power supply completely to the power amp section must be better in theory, it may not make any measurable difference.

Note that in the chart below, at slightly below reference level, -0.5 volume position, the Denon's SINAD actually exceeded the $5,000 Emotiva RMC-1's 100 SINAD.

Amir noted: If you reduce the output to 1.4 volts, SINAD of the center channel improves to 97 dB whereas the Left goes up to 103 dB. This is at volume position 79.5 dB (above is at 82.5).

The 103 was obviously a typo, if you look at the display it was 100.352 dB, but that's less than 0.001 % THD+N.

That's when he was asked to compare with and without power amp disconnected, so he set it up to compare the left and the center channel. The AVR-X3600H can only disconnect the front left and right channel. I know this sounds confusing but I hope it is clear enough for you.

That's THD+N of only 0.00096%

ASR review - with power amp disconnected vs connected

View attachment 36867
I've read this post a few times as I appreciate the data provided. One question and one thought;

I can't tell if Amir says ECO mode degrades DAC performance only in the channels using onboard amps or also those of LR in pre-amp mode? It appears using an X3700 in pre-amp mode with a Monolith 5X (even though not tested on ASR, bench results on here were very good) and two Emotiva A-150s (I already own one) for the Atmos channels would be an excellent and relatively cost-effective solution.

This would save speculation on if the extra processing in the X4700 & X6700 would actually cause higher levels of noise and therefore not test as well.
 

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