Denon AVR-X3600H vs AVR-X3700H or AVR-X4500H?

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
@PENG - I spent half the day trying different modes with the 4700. Setting up a 7.1.4 setup does NOT fix the issue. It does allow you to use preouts with fronts but if you move to preamp "amp assign" then you have to rerun Audyssey all over again or Audyssey EQ does not work, Dynamic EQ is off and the Audyssey menu is greyed out.

Basically, it's a hot mess. If you want to change amp assign settings "on the fly" it's not possible with the 4700 without getting the mic out and setting up Audyssey from scratch again. :p
Thank you for the information. Can't assume anything these days.. As far as I know, users of the 4500 has not complained about this issue. Someone should email Denon and request this addressed via FW update. My guess is, they think since you got the preamp mode, you should be messing around with the assign thing, forgetting that many of us want the flexibility to use some of the AVR's power amps and still want clean output at higher output voltage for the two mains.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Something i am not very clear according to the review https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3600h-av-receiver-review.12676/ there is a graph that mention "This is well above average for some 85 amplifiers I have tested so far: " , if I understand correctly does this statement mean that by using the AVR 3600 alone it is already good enough since it sits above average among the amplifies , there is no need to do a pre amp to an external speaker for better sound quality?
You understood him right, I assume.. If that's what Amir meant, I fully agree with him. The fact is, if the 3600 has more than enough juice you need for your speakers then adding a power amp won't do anything for you unless you have "golden ears" and pair it with power amps that measure much better (that is, amps that are clearly above "average" than the AVR's.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'll assume you're tone deaf or trolling with a comment like that about bi-amping. And I never said the amp was bad, only limiting.
Never said you said the amp was bad. I only mentioned the reviews and the good measurements in case you are not aware of it and you may be happy to know you made a good choice.

My biamp comments were based on my hours of research on the topic of passive biamp using a mid range AVR, it is just my informed opinion, and wish I never offer one when not being asked...:D
 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
You understood him right, I assume.. If that's what Amir meant, I fully agree with him. The fact is, if the 3600 has more than enough juice you need for your speakers then adding a power amp won't do anything for you unless you have "golden ears" and pair it with power amps that measure much better (that is, amps that are clearly above "average" than the AVR's.
Thansk PENG, another benefit by doing this is that if I need to make it a 7.1.4 in future (as I understand so far from my limited knowledge by reading from forum :))
 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
Hi Chriscym

I’m also new here, saw your post, realised how similar it is to mine and decided to chip in.

I’ve had the 3600 and a Sony X950G (last years mode of the H) for about a year now and there are a couple of issues with the setup.

I’m ’m happy with both units but getting them to play nicely together has been a bit challenging. I’m not sure about the new TV but the processors in mine are not quick enough to pass though the audio to the amp over eArc and leaves me with a bit of lag and stutter (however I am running bitstream sound from both my PS4 Pro and Xbox. I may need to test the compressed Dolby option again but I’m not a fan of the compressed sound)

So I run the 3600 as the brains of the setup in 9 channel with bi-amp mode to the fronts and pass through the video to the TV. Works fine for now but only runs at 60hz which means when next gen consoles arrive i need to figure something else out.

Also, how many speakers are you planning? I’m trying to setup a 5.2.4 (or 7.2.2) but the 3600 is limiting me to what I can activate speaker wise if I run bi-amp. This also limits zone 2 output (I don’t need it) as I’m already using all 11 processing channels.

Hope that helps
I came across this setting where u can set the Audio Delay setting. Maybe it can solve your issue, worth a try and let us know, now after reading your comment I am worried if I will face the same issue with eARC

 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
I am not sure if this is a trend, the cheapest 3600 i can find in my country malaysia is selling at 1.25k USD after conversion despite they are clearing the older stock. And 1 thing I notice is that the AVR retain value quite well.
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
I would say just wait until black friday and get something better. You can search for open box deals, would be your only other choice from authorized denon dealers, you get full coverage warranty.

But yea if you want your 4k/120, you would probably need to go with the 2020 models.

Honestly, I dont think it's worth it for you to do that, I was going to get the 4400H, which is great if you want to save money. it falls behind on a lot of the newer models, but for me I stream a lot of my media. If you are streaming you get whatever your TV can put out. The receiver doesn't limit your performance.

I believe if you just connect your system to your TV and getting the ARC, the AVR will reproduce the sound of your system(ps5) out of the TV into your speakers. I maybe wrong

My situation is worse than yours, my tv is 4k/240. So no matter what I get it's going to run the 120, which isn't bad. A lot of things aren't 240. But that's why I was going with the 4400H.

I got lucky and found a marantz open box for 1100 off, it was only missing the audssey multi eq and purchased that from marantz.

That's why I said look around.

Also, you may want to consider the little lower line, Denon S750H. Cant vouch for the performance, but I can say I assume you dont have crazy expensive speakers. They provide the 8k/60 and 4k/120 I believe at a much more affordable range.

Not an expert, I just barely got into home theater within the last 6 months. I would probably suggest and think not running more than 5.x on those smaller receivers regardless of what it says. The savings is in components

I got a deal I wouldn't even get at black friday. Some people suggest Accessories4Less website, but I got my receiver for 200 dollars cheaper than that refurbished unit and a full 3 year warranty. *Purchasing from an authorized dealer even OB

I think patience is key. Wait to get better unit for the same price you were planning on dishing out now. ~40 days away
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
I am not sure if this is a trend, the cheapest 3600 i can find in my country malaysia is selling at 1.25k USD after conversion despite they are clearing the older stock. And 1 thing I notice is that the AVR retain value quite well.
But the question is, is that place an authorized dealer? If it's not they will not honor your warranty even if it's DOA. That's how marantz works, and Sound United owns both of them. Denon and Marantz. I would guess it is the same. I would be very cautious purchasing something without warranty when it costs so much.

I would say in my experience of shopping for so many months now. Outside the US, most countries are charging 10-20% more than MSRP. So that just raises red flags in my book. I do realize it is the older unit they are selling.

You can check on the website authorized online retailers just to be safe. Maybe narrow down your search with something to back up your investment.
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
Also, if you are just so eager that you cant wait, you can always finance or get a paypal credit card and pay over period of 6 months 0% interest if paid in full by 180 days. Chopping up the payments is always better than coughing it all up. Possibly give you the opportunity to purchase what you want.

I think crutch field you can break up into 3 payments with them direct, no CC required. Some places do Affirm, etc, for payments.

But I would suggest you wait or really do some deep research into purchasing options before coming to a conclusion
 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
But the question is, is that place an authorized dealer? If it's not they will not honor your warranty even if it's DOA. That's how marantz works, and Sound United owns both of them. Denon and Marantz. I would guess it is the same. I would be very cautious purchasing something without warranty when it costs so much.

I would say in my experience of shopping for so many months now. Outside the US, most countries are charging 10-20% more than MSRP. So that just raises red flags in my book. I do realize it is the older unit they are selling.

You can check on the website authorized online retailers just to be safe. Maybe narrow down your search with something to back up your investment.
Thanks, I cant ascertain from the dealer that it is an authorised Dealer of Denon, But they seem big enough and carry other products. Thanks for your advices and suggestions, in my country we can do installment for 1 year to maximum of 2 years and some shops allow 0% no extra charge :)
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
Thanks, I cant ascertain from the dealer that it is an authorised Dealer of Denon, But they seem big enough and carry other products. Thanks for your advices and suggestions, in my country we can do installment for 1 year to maximum of 2 years and some shops allow 0% no extra charge :)
That's great, but as mentioned, check on the Denon website itself to see if it's accurate. Especially if this store is far away from where you live. If the place you are purchasing from is near by at least you can return the product in person. If something goes wrong you risk the potential of losing all your money, and that is only in the short term.

If it goes out 6 months down the line you are definitely going to lose everything.

A 3 year warranty is value in itself. At least whatever you pay will be divided amongst that, since your money is protected.
 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
Thanks everyone again, at the end I chosen to purchase 3700 instead which I did last 2 days, there is a very good promotion discount & free gift that I find hard to resist such as QED XT-40 speaker cables, QED reference conduit power cord, MS HD power S20V3 6 point power adapter.
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
Thanks everyone again, at the end I chosen to purchase 3700 instead which I did last 2 days, there is a very good promotion discount & free gift that I find hard to resist such as QED XT-40 speaker cables, QED reference conduit power cord, MS HD power S20V3 6 point power adapter.
Where at? Share the wealth
 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
Where at? Share the wealth
Hi, It is in Malaysia, the special promotion ends on weekend 2 days ago. the supply of AVR here are monopolized by a single distributor, even with the discounted price it is selling at 1.4k usd after conversion. The normal price will be about 1.6k USD.
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
Hi, It is in Malaysia, the special promotion ends on weekend 2 days ago. the supply of AVR here are monopolized by a single distributor, even with the discounted price it is selling at 1.4k usd after conversion. The normal price will be about 1.6k USD.
Oh yea, Malaysia. As mentioned earlier, even the best of price isn’t a factor when you have no warranty
 
C

chriscym

Enthusiast
Oh yea, Malaysia. As mentioned earlier, even the best of price isn’t a factor when you have no warranty
there is warranty, i bought it from a reputable dealer. All dealer get their stock from the the main distributor which is the sole authorised by Denon and they are monopolized the whole market then they distribute to the other dealers around the country. Smart? if u ask me they are smart but not very ethical business they practise. In comparison Yamaha AVR which is not under this distributor control cost cheaper than Denon / Marantz.
 
Last edited:
M

MacCali

Audioholic
Oh legit, I didn’t read or hear back from you earlier when I mentioned that the location had to be an authorized Denon retailer.

I bought mine and a mom and pop audio store, nothing amazing or spectacular. But even before I bought it from them I checked Marantz using the website and over the phone that it is authorized.

But again, mine was open box. So it had been on the floor for probably a year or two, but I see nothing wrong could be done to AVR. They have a 15 day return policy and it’s like a 5 min drive from my house. So couldn’t complain, plus the 3 year warranty.

Just always warn people when they want a Denon or Marantz to always purchase from an authorized spot. As said before, especially online.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
Oh legit, I didn’t read or hear back from you earlier when I mentioned that the location had to be an authorized Denon retailer.

I bought mine and a mom and pop audio store, nothing amazing or spectacular. But even before I bought it from them I checked Marantz using the website and over the phone that it is authorized.

But again, mine was open box. So it had been on the floor for probably a year or two, but I see nothing wrong could be done to AVR. They have a 15 day return policy and it’s like a 5 min drive from my house. So couldn’t complain, plus the 3 year warranty.

Just always warn people when they want a Denon or Marantz to always purchase from an authorized spot. As said before, especially online.
Warranty sounds good but it may not be the protection you are hoping for. If a receiver has been in use for a year or two there is a high probability of wear on components from the high heat the Denon/Marantz units generate.

My Denon 4500 Height amps died within 9 months of purchase. I paid $86 to send it into to Denon's authorized repair a month ago and they still don't have parts to fix it. Who knows when the repair might be completed?

With the high heat of these units - buying a used unit is high risk and warranty repairs are really slow with high shipping fees.
 
D

DJ7675

Audioholic
@PENG - I spent half the day trying different modes with the 4700. Setting up a 7.1.4 setup does NOT fix the issue. It does allow you to use preouts with fronts but if you move to preamp "amp assign" then you have to rerun Audyssey all over again or Audyssey EQ does not work, Dynamic EQ is off and the Audyssey menu is greyed out.

Basically, it's a hot mess. If you want to change amp assign settings "on the fly" it's not possible with the 4700 without getting the mic out and setting up Audyssey from scratch again. :p
What about using the USB backup/restore function to save the 2 different setups? You would have to run Audyssey on each configuration but the backup would store everything. Not sure if this solves your problem or not but thought I would mentioned it as I have used it on my x8500 and it has been helpful.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
What about using the USB backup/restore function to save the 2 different setups? You would have to run Audyssey on each configuration but the backup would store everything. Not sure if this solves your problem or not but thought I would mentioned it as I have used it on my x8500 and it has been helpful.
Actually, the iPad app lets me save as many configurations as I want. And it's far easier than trying to use the USB drive restore feature. The problem is every time you change the "amp assign" configuration Audyssey turns off. It wont go back on until you complete a new Audyssey EQ session or reload an existing Audyssey config file that you previously created for that amp assign setting.

You can do a complete redo of Audyssey for each "amp assign" setting and reload it using the iPad, but that means you have to get out the mic, spend 20 minutes on creating each Audyssey configuration and then save them. That's for each amp assign configuration.

In addition, some configuration cannot be initially created on the iPad until first setup using the remote with the TV. This happens when you need to add channels that are not currently active and iPad cannot see them until after the remote activates them.

Once you start trying all this you see what a hot mess it is. :D
If you pick a setting and stay with it - you don't experience this.
 

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