Denon AVR-X3600H vs AVR-X3700H or AVR-X4500H?

[chriscym]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum so this is my very first post.

I need some advice please , I'm considering between Denon 3600 or 3700 to pair with the incoming PS5 that can support 4k 120HZ frame rate, I read in comments from Youtube that 3700 isn't worth the extra money considering there is a single HDMI 2.1 and I can do eARC from a compatible TV (for example Sony XH90) which support 4k 120HZ and audio passthrough to the 3600 via eARC, what are the other benefits I would get if I go for 3700? Or 4500 which falls around the same pricing?

I was earlier considering a 2700 but I discovered that this avr doesn't support Pre Amp, I'm also looking to future upgrade to have a pre amp processing to go with an external 2 channel amp for stereo music therefore I'm looking at one level more towards the minimum Denon 3xxx series. If you have other avr to recomend please let me know

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum so this is my very first post.

I need some advice please , I'm considering between Denon 3600 or 3700 to pair with the incoming PS5 that can support 4k 120HZ frame rate, I read in comments from Youtube that 3700 isn't worth the extra money considering there is a single HDMI 2.1 and I can do eARC from a compatible TV (for example Sony XH90) which support 4k 120HZ and audio passthrough to the 3600 via eARC, what are the other benefits I would get if I go for 3700? Or 4500 which falls around the same pricing?

I was earlier considering a 2700 but I discovered that this avr doesn't support Pre Amp, I'm also looking to future upgrade to have a pre amp processing to go with an external 2 channel amp for stereo music therefore I'm looking at one level more towards the minimum Denon 3xxx series. If you have other avr to recomend please let me know

Seems to me, the 3600 is the budget darling. But the 4500 is better overall. Iirc, unless you care about 8k(which is ridiculous IMO) and future proofing. The 4500 has more power, and can process 7.1.4 where iirc the 3600 can only do 5.14. If Atmos doesn’t matter and speakers are easy to drive the 3600 might be the best value.
Also. I’m not a video guy so eArc is something I couldn’t care less about and don’t like 120hz on my displays. so...

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum so this is my very first post.

I need some advice please , I'm considering between Denon 3600 or 3700 to pair with the incoming PS5 that can support 4k 120HZ frame rate, I read in comments from Youtube that 3700 isn't worth the extra money considering there is a single HDMI 2.1 and I can do eARC from a compatible TV (for example Sony XH90) which support 4k 120HZ and audio passthrough to the 3600 via eARC, what are the other benefits I would get if I go for 3700? Or 4500 which falls around the same pricing?

Here are the main differences between 3600 and 3700.

The 4xxx series adds more features. Here is a 3700 vs 4700 comparison.

One of my favorite modes is Auro-3D. It's not available on the 3700. I also like 2 lines on the display instead of one. A little higher power and lower distortion is also part of the package. The 3700 and 4700 add preamp mode where users can turn off the internal receiver amps. The 3600 and 4500 do not. But they do allow you to use an external amp for the fronts.

The 4500 is an older design that's been around for several years. A this point, if I was looking at the 4xxx series it would be worth the extra to me to get the 4700 vs 4500.

The other option is Yamaha. The RX-A3080 and RX-A2080 reportedly run cooler than the 4700 and offer more power in Stereo mode.

RX-A3080 - Overview - Yamaha USA

Born from Engineering Performance. Our flagship 9.2-channel (11.2-ch processing) AV receiver was bred for versatility and engineering performance with two ESS SABRE™ DACs (one ES9007S and one ES9026PRO), seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality...

usa.yamaha.com

 

[chriscym]

Here are the main differences between 3600 and 3700.

View attachment 40408

The 4xxx series adds more features. Here is a 3700 vs 4700 comparison.
View attachment 40409

One of my favorite modes is Auro-3D. It's not available on the 3700. I also like 2 lines on the display instead of one. A little higher power and lower distortion is also part of the package. The 3700 and 4700 add preamp mode where users can turn off the internal receiver amps. The 3600 and 4500 do not. But they do allow you to use an external amp for the fronts.

The 4500 is an older design that's been around for several years. A this point, if I was looking at the 4xxx series it would be worth the extra to me to get the 4700 vs 4500.

The other option is Yamaha. The RX-A3080 and RX-A2080 reportedly run cooler than the 4700 and offer more power in Stereo mode.

RX-A3080 - Overview - Yamaha USA

Born from Engineering Performance. Our flagship 9.2-channel (11.2-ch processing) AV receiver was bred for versatility and engineering performance with two ESS SABRE™ DACs (one ES9007S and one ES9026PRO), seven HDMI inputs, three HDMI outputs, Dolby Atmos® and DTS:X™, Multi-Zone functionality...

usa.yamaha.com

I thought the 3600 has a pre amp built in. Thanks for pointing out, when you mention that 3600 allow me to route the front channels to an external amp , the implementation is different from preamp mode?

 

[mazersteven]

I thought the 3600 has a pre amp built in. Thanks for pointing out, when you mention that 3600 allow me to route the front channels to an external amp , the implementation is different from preamp mode?

Read what he wrote again:

"The 3700 and 4700 add preamp mode where users can TURN OFF the internal receiver amps. The 3600 and 4500 do not. But they do allow you to use an external amp for the fronts."

 

[chriscym]

Read what he wrote again:

"The 3700 and 4700 add preamp mode where users can TURN OFF the internal receiver amps. The 3600 and 4500 do not. But they do allow you to use an external amp for the fronts."

Thanks mate

 

[VMPS-TIII]

I thought the 3600 has a pre amp built in. Thanks for pointing out, when you mention that 3600 allow me to route the front channels to an external amp , the implementation is different from preamp mode?

You can use the 3600 as a preamp but the internal amps will still be running. With the 3700 and 4700 you can use preamp mode to actually turn off all internal amps. This will allow it to run cooler and with higher specs.

The problem is it's all or nothing. It would be nice if you could simply select preamp mode for each channel and have that channel turn off. That's not an option. And the HEAT on the 4700 is SIGNIFICANT.

Right now I have my 4700 Fronts, Center, Surrounds on an external amp and rear surrounds and front highs on the internal amp with the 4700 set in ECO mode. This allows the 4700 to run much cooler and doesn't deprive the main speakers of amplification.

I'm thinking the Yamaha RX-A3080 would be a better option as it runs cooler but it's another 3.4" deeper (plus 10 pounds heavier) and will not fit where I have my receiver currently. The other issue is it doesn't support Auro-3D which I have grown to enjoy with the 4700.

So now I am considering buying four Outlaw 2220 amps for the fronts and surrounds and moving all the other speakers to the 5-channel Adcom ext. amp so I can run preamp mode on the 4700 and totally turn off all its internal amps. The other option is the RX-A3080 with a different cabinet.

 

[PENG]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum so this is my very first post.

I need some advice please , I'm considering between Denon 3600 or 3700 to pair with the incoming PS5 that can support 4k 120HZ frame rate, I read in comments from Youtube that 3700 isn't worth the extra money considering there is a single HDMI 2.1 and I can do eARC from a compatible TV (for example Sony XH90) which support 4k 120HZ and audio passthrough to the 3600 via eARC, what are the other benefits I would get if I go for 3700? Or 4500 which falls around the same pricing?

I was earlier considering a 2700 but I discovered that this avr doesn't support Pre Amp, I'm also looking to future upgrade to have a pre amp processing to go with an external 2 channel amp for stereo music therefore I'm looking at one level more towards the minimum Denon 3xxx series. If you have other avr to recomend please let me know

The AVR-X3600H measured better than the X3700H and X4700H in most categories based on ASR's measurements.

All 3, X3600H, X4500H, X3700H, X4700H have 11 channel preamp outputs and 2 subwoofer outputs.

The X3600H and X4500H do not have a full preamp mode, but it has the amp assign feature that allows you to disconnect the front left and front right channel preamp outputs to those two internal power amps, and that would allow the preamp output for those two channels to remain pristine up to 2 V and higher.

The X3700H and X4700H have a "full" preamp mode that allows you to disconnect the preamp output for all channels, to the internal amps, but obviously the preamp mode is only useful if you are prepared to use the AVR as a preamp/processor only. If you intend to use even one of the internal amp channel, you cannot use the preamp model

I hope that is clear.

ASR (Audiosciencereview.com) has the bench test measurement of the X3600/3700/4700/6700/8500, and the Marantz SR6014 as well:
ASR review AVR-X3600H
ASR review AVR-X3700H
ASR review AVR-X4700H
ASR review SR6014

If the X3600H has all the features you need, and if you can get a good price on it, it may be the best value for you.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

On the 4700 you have to select the 11-channel amp assign option to turn off the Front speakers. It's an awkward implementation just to turn off the Fronts amp. If you don't assign all 11 channels then it won't provide the option to use pre-outs for the Fronts. What does that mean? If you don't have 11 speakers attached then you may be sending some of your Dolby audio content to channels with no speakers. Not an optimal movie setup - but you got the Front amps turned off.

AND if you use "Preamp" mode in amp assign then you lose all control functions for zone 2 and zone 3 features Or "B" Fronts. All you get in that mode is what the speaker terminals are labeled. No changes in speaker assignments can be made.

What I am trying to reveal is users will lose some of the configuration options described in the manual by using "Preamp mode" in amp assign. The pre-out assignment for Fronts is very limited AND the Pre-amp mode is obviously an after thought.

 

[chriscym]

Thank you PENG & VMPS-TIII appreciate very much your clear explanation. I understand clearly now

 

[PENG]

On the 4700 you have to select the 11-channel amp assign option to turn off the Front speakers. It's an awkward implementation just to turn off the Fronts amp. If you don't assign all 11 channels then it won't provide the option to use pre-outs for the Fronts. What does that mean? If you don't have 11 speakers attached then you may be sending some of your Dolby audio content to channels with no speakers. Not an optimal movie setup - but you got the Front amps turned off.

AND if you use "Preamp" mode in amp assign then you lose all control functions for zone 2 and zone 3 features Or "B" Fronts. All you get in that mode is what the speaker terminals are labeled. No changes in speaker assignments can be made.

What I am trying to reveal is users will lose some of the configuration options described in the manual by using "Preamp mode" in amp assign. The pre-out assignment for Fronts is very limited AND the Pre-amp mode is obviously an after thought.

There is no issue "sending" 7.1.4. It won't hurt anything. I use amp assign, but if I have to do something funny, I just change to whatever I need it to be, only take a minute to do. You are right about the z2/3 point, you do lose some functions, but for most users, probably not. Similar issue would apply to z2/3 too even with the full preamp mode.

My two cents:

1)The pre-out assignment is not an after thought at all, it is a trick that Gene somehow noticed, for those who need to gave >1.5 V pre out voltage and still want top performance in terms of THD+N. Denon did not design it for such purpose, I am sure about that's what they will tell you if you ask.

2) AVR's preamp mode is probably in fact an after thought, albeit a good one. Most AVR users are doing just fine without such a preamp mode, but it is one of those things, if it can be done easily, why not? So it's done, to me, that is something we should appreciate. Onkyo has that for some models, Yamaha, NAD, Anthem, and Sony don't even offer such feature, so that's my point.... That it is nice for Denon to come up with such after thought, when they implemented it on their flag ship models such as HD's AVR-4520CI, then the X7200W and the X8500H, and finally on all models from the X3700H up in 2020, apparently due to (or at least partially) Gene's request on behalf of users like us.

3) Even without the preamp mode, Denon's pre out performance is comparable to that of the AV7705, and is a real preamp/processor, not a "mode" at 2 V, so users really can't complain..

By the way, I wouldn't use the term "turn off", even if that's what D+M claimed (not sure if they did). As it is now, we already of the misconception among people that when in preamp mode the internal amps are "powered off", so let's not reinforce it further. In preamp mode, it is just the signal flow that is broken between the "pre out" and the "power amp" input.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

There is no issue "sending" 7.1.4. It won't hurt anything. I use amp assign, but if I have to do something funny, I just change to whatever I need it to be, only take a minute to do. You are right about the z2/3 point, you do lose some functions, but for most users, probably not. Similar issue would apply to z2/3 too even with the full preamp mode.

@PENG - I wish it was easy as simply changing Amp Assign and moving on your merry way. But with the 4700 that is not the case. Maybe it's different with your receiver?

Here's why:
My normal setup is shown below. Fronts, surrounds, rear surrounds and front highs. There is no option in Audyssey to use front pre-outs in this configuration.

So I take your advice and I open "Amp assign" and switch Height speakers to front and rear. This enables the option for Front pre-outs. It's odd that I have to add 10 speakers just to get this option but I do it to work around the Denon 4700 design.

Then guess what happens? Audyssey is now greyed out on the monitor and not available. All the EQ is gone and Dynamic EQ is turned off. Audyssey says I can't access this menu until I run Audyssey again.

As you can see, you cannot maintain your settings when you move to a different "Amp Assign" setting. As a test, I go back to "Amp assign" and select Pre-amp mode. Once again all EQ settings are lost and Audyssey menu items is greyed out and Dynamic EQ is off.

Next, I move the Amp assign back to my original configuration. Only then is the Audyssey menu item available and Dynamic EQ restored. There is NO provision in the 4700 to change amp assign modes without completely re-running the entire 15-20 minute Audyssey setup confirmation with the Mic inserted.

And if you want preamp mode, you will need to run an Audyssey setup for that and save it so you can switch to it. The 4700 software is not designed to make it easy to change amp assign modes without a complete redo of Audyssey.

Maybe you have not done this? Or your older Denon is different? You really have to stay with the amp assign mode you originally configured or be willing to start the setup all over again.

 

[PENG]

@PENG - I wish it was easy as simply changing Amp Assign and moving on your merry way. But with the 4700 that is not the case. Maybe it's different with your receiver?

Here's why:
My normal setup is shown below. Fronts, surrounds, rear surrounds and front highs. There is no option in Audyssey to use front pre-outs in this configuration.

View attachment 40430

So I take your advice and I open "Amp assign" and switch Height speakers to front and rear. This enables the option for Front pre-outs. It's odd that I have to add 10 speakers just to get this option but I do it to work around the Denon 4700 design.

View attachment 40431

Then guess what happens? Audyssey is now greyed out on the monitor and not available. All the EQ is gone and Dynamic EQ is turned off. Audyssey says I can't access this menu until I run Audyssey again.

View attachment 40432

As you can see, you cannot maintain your settings when you move to a different "Amp Assign" setting. As a test, I go back to "Amp assign" and select Pre-amp mode. Once again all EQ settings are lost and Audyssey menu items is greyed out and Dynamic EQ is off.

Next, I move the Amp assign back to my original configuration. Only then is the Audyssey menu item available and Dynamic EQ restored. There is NO provision in the 4700 to change amp assign modes without completely re-running the entire 15-20 minute Audyssey setup confirmation with the Mic inserted.

View attachment 40433

And if you want preamp mode, you will need to run an Audyssey setup for that and save it so you can switch to it. The 4700 software is not designed to make it easy to change amp assign modes without a complete redo of Audyssey.

Maybe you have not done this? Or your older Denon is different? You really have to stay with the amp assign mode you originally configured or be willing to start the setup all over again.

That's a different issue, but an interesting one. The menu screenshots look the same as that of my AVR-X4400H. Did you set it to 7.1.4 before you ran Audyssey? I have not tried running Audyssey for less than 7.1.4 so I can tell you any better. Though I remember other users of models prior to 2020's, reported the trick worked, and iirc, not all of them were using 7.1.4. If you use the App, you could do a quick experiment by re-running Audyssey and see what what happens. It won't take too long if you just run it for 3 positions.

 

[BlenderBass]

Hi Chriscym

I’m also new here, saw your post, realised how similar it is to mine and decided to chip in.

I’ve had the 3600 and a Sony X950G (last years mode of the H) for about a year now and there are a couple of issues with the setup.

I’m ’m happy with both units but getting them to play nicely together has been a bit challenging. I’m not sure about the new TV but the processors in mine are not quick enough to pass though the audio to the amp over eArc and leaves me with a bit of lag and stutter (however I am running bitstream sound from both my PS4 Pro and Xbox. I may need to test the compressed Dolby option again but I’m not a fan of the compressed sound)

So I run the 3600 as the brains of the setup in 9 channel with bi-amp mode to the fronts and pass through the video to the TV. Works fine for now but only runs at 60hz which means when next gen consoles arrive i need to figure something else out.

Also, how many speakers are you planning? I’m trying to setup a 5.2.4 (or 7.2.2) but the 3600 is limiting me to what I can activate speaker wise if I run bi-amp. This also limits zone 2 output (I don’t need it) as I’m already using all 11 processing channels.

Hope that helps

 

[PENG]

Hi Chriscym

I’m also new here, saw your post, realised how similar it is to mine and decided to chip in.

I’ve had the 3600 and a Sony X950G (last years mode of the H) for about a year now and there are a couple of issues with the setup.

I’m ’m happy with both units but getting them to play nicely together has been a bit challenging. I’m not sure about the new TV but the processors in mine are not quick enough to pass though the audio to the amp over eArc and leaves me with a bit of lag and stutter (however I am running bitstream sound from both my PS4 Pro and Xbox. I may need to test the compressed Dolby option again but I’m not a fan of the compressed sound)

So I run the 3600 as the brains of the setup in 9 channel with bi-amp mode to the fronts and pass through the video to the TV. Works fine for now but only runs at 60hz which means when next gen consoles arrive i need to figure something else out.

Also, how many speakers are you planning? I’m trying to setup a 5.2.4 (or 7.2.2) but the 3600 is limiting me to what I can activate speaker wise if I run bi-amp. This also limits zone 2 output (I don’t need it) as I’m already using all 11 processing channels.

Hope that helps

If biamp is limiting you, then don't do it and problem solve. There isn't much point biamping with an AVR like the avr-x3600h that has a relatively small power supply. The other theoretical benefits from separating the low and mid/high, or low mid and high are not audible according to many experts in the field. The X3600H is currently the 2nd or 3rd best measured unit when used as a preamp/processor, based on bench tests by Audiosciencereview.com.

 

[BlenderBass]

If biamp is limiting you, then don't do it and problem solve. There isn't much point biamping with an AVR like the avr-x3600h that has a relatively small power supply. The other theoretical benefits from separating the low and mid/high, or low mid and high are not audible according to many experts in the field. The X3600H is currently the 2nd or 3rd best measured unit when used as a preamp/processor, based on bench tests by Audiosciencereview.com.

I'll assume you're tone deaf or trolling with a comment like that about bi-amping. And I never said the amp was bad, only limiting.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

That's a different issue, but an interesting one. The menu screenshots look the same as that of my AVR-X4400H. Did you set it to 7.1.4 before you ran Audyssey? I have not tried running Audyssey for less than 7.1.4 so I can tell you any better. Though I remember other users of models prior to 2020's, reported the trick worked, and iirc, not all of them were using 7.1.4. If you use the App, you could do a quick experiment by re-running Audyssey and see what what happens. It won't take too long if you just run it for 3 positions.

@PENG - I spent half the day trying different modes with the 4700. Setting up a 7.1.4 setup does NOT fix the issue. It does allow you to use preouts with fronts but if you move to preamp "amp assign" then you have to rerun Audyssey all over again or Audyssey EQ does not work, Dynamic EQ is off and the Audyssey menu is greyed out.

Basically, it's a hot mess. If you want to change amp assign settings "on the fly" it's not possible with the 4700 without getting the mic out and setting up Audyssey from scratch again.

 

[chriscym]

If biamp is limiting you, then don't do it and problem solve. There isn't much point biamping with an AVR like the avr-x3600h that has a relatively small power supply. The other theoretical benefits from separating the low and mid/high, or low mid and high are not audible according to many experts in the field. The X3600H is currently the 2nd or 3rd best measured unit when used as a preamp/processor, based on bench tests by Audiosciencereview.com.

Something i am not very clear according to the review https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3600h-av-receiver-review.12676/ there is a graph that mention "This is well above average for some 85 amplifiers I have tested so far: " , if I understand correctly does this statement mean that by using the AVR 3600 alone it is already good enough since it sits above average among the amplifies , there is no need to do a pre amp to an external speaker for better sound quality?

 

[NINaudio]

Something i am not very clear according to the review https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/denon-avr-x3600h-av-receiver-review.12676/ there is a graph that mention "This is well above average for some 85 amplifiers I have tested so far: " , if I understand correctly does this statement mean that by using the AVR 3600 alone it is already good enough since it sits above average among the amplifies , there is no need to do a pre amp to an external speaker for better sound quality?

Correct, as long as the receiver has enough power for your needs you will not get a sound quality benefit from using external amplification. If you want better sound quality, you should look to speakers first, second, and third. Then look to your room and the speaker's placement in them.

 

[chriscym]

Hi Chriscym

I’m also new here, saw your post, realised how similar it is to mine and decided to chip in.

I’ve had the 3600 and a Sony X950G (last years mode of the H) for about a year now and there are a couple of issues with the setup.

I’m ’m happy with both units but getting them to play nicely together has been a bit challenging. I’m not sure about the new TV but the processors in mine are not quick enough to pass though the audio to the amp over eArc and leaves me with a bit of lag and stutter (however I am running bitstream sound from both my PS4 Pro and Xbox. I may need to test the compressed Dolby option again but I’m not a fan of the compressed sound)

So I run the 3600 as the brains of the setup in 9 channel with bi-amp mode to the fronts and pass through the video to the TV. Works fine for now but only runs at 60hz which means when next gen consoles arrive i need to figure something else out.

Also, how many speakers are you planning? I’m trying to setup a 5.2.4 (or 7.2.2) but the 3600 is limiting me to what I can activate speaker wise if I run bi-amp. This also limits zone 2 output (I don’t need it) as I’m already using all 11 processing channels.

Hope that helps

I am planning to do with 5.1.2 as a start. I didnt aware that eARC is having lag issue, I think latest sony TV like the Sony XH90 is advertised to work with PS5, I hope it doesnt have such an issue if I were to pair it with the Denon 3600 via eARC.