Denon and Marantz could cease operations in 2025

[MrBoat]

@gene or the way most of not all POP music is being recorded in studios. Multi track overlay where you think you might hear back up singers, but not quite sure. Yes nothing new with multilayer recording it was done with vinyl back in the days. Most (bands) found a sound (master recording engineer) that had the tools to work with. Those bands, used as an analogy, went (that's the sound We want on our LPs.) Gene, remember when electronic synthesizers came on to the scene in the early '70s? Bands started using electronic synthesizers, that trashed rock and roll for Ever!

I was so surprised to hear how Tom Sholz recorded Boston's debut album. At the time, I was sort of disappointed (I think) but it sounded so good I got over it pretty quickly. Then I came to the compromise that if they could actually sing and play without it, I would look past it. Then I discovered how much trickery was going on from well before that. In many instances though, the bands live shows sucked in comparison to studio, enough to where I preferred studio versions of mainstream music, and still do.

I do not care so much about authenticism with recorded music, or even trying to emulate it with my system. As long as it is skillfully done and sounds excellent, I really enjoy it, and so much of it does. It helps that I can go find authentic accurately reproduced music anytime I want, or just find a live show somewhere. I really do not understand chasing such a standard all the time. I think so many set the bar there, just because it has been suggested to them, like the root of just about every fad that has ever been.

 

[Tankini]

I was so surprised to hear how Tom Sholz recorded Boston's debut album. At the time, I was sort of disappointed (I think) but it sounded so good I got over it pretty quickly. Then I came to the compromise that if they could actually sing and play without it, I would look past it. Then I discovered how much trickery was going on from well before that. In many instances though, the bands live shows sucked in comparison to studio, enough to where I preferred studio versions of mainstream music, and still do.

I do not care so much about authenticism with recorded music, or even trying to emulate it with my system. As long as it is skillfully done and sounds excellent, I really enjoy it, and so much of it does. It helps that I can go find authentic accurately reproduced music anytime I want, or just find a live show somewhere. I really do not understand chasing such a standard all the time. I think so many set the bar there, just because it has been suggested to them, like the root of just about every fad that has ever been.

Maybe I'm a little to old school. Take the Mamas and Papas. Before recording engineers found out they could surmise left and right and create a center channel (phantom) or like Gene stated, innovative drumming techniques (Mic) placement.

Very few, Pop artist if you can call them, for the lack of a better word. Some, rarely have writing skills much less. You have what 2-3 cords? Maybe 3 verses in a pop song. I agree a whole lot of magic going on.

There are some talented vocal pop singers. Nothing I would compared to likes of the "Celtic Lady's". Catchy tune, that's played over air, AM/FM were at the mercy of the wave studio's.

Most had to Pay upfront in order for AM/FM studios to spin in the top 10 (rotation) much less billboard.

Wolfman Jack tells my age lol. Most if not all Pop music, frontman/woman are average nightclub voice at best but with the right studio magic you get, Pop magic. Live performances?

Madonna, Cher, I'll leave out "Grace Slick" (White Rabbit) legendary. Wilson Sisters a class act of their own.

Back to why Gene hit on, innovative performance. Spot on about Genesis, I do remember watching him, his techniques were pioneering. I just can't for the life of me get pass electric synthesizers.

First time I heard it was with in the 70's. Stixs II (God of Dust) whole lot of reverb, electronic organ used. All the magics done in the studio man, but you know that already.

Having a great recording master engineer + one who knows of arrangements, with musicians. Mic placements you'll have a great product well engineered pop album is worth Gold baby.

(Synthesizer) with that on Vinyl. Cool? Sure, "How about those Horns blowing that sound, that ain't what they call rock and roll".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Was meant as a joke more than anything else.

 

[highfigh]

@gene or the way most of not all POP music is being recorded in studios. Multi track overlay where you think you might hear back up singers, but not quite sure. Yes nothing new with multilayer recording it was done with vinyl back in the days. Most (bands) found a sound (master recording engineer) that had the tools to work with. Those bands, used as an analogy, went (that's the sound We want on our LPs.) Gene, remember when electronic synthesizers came on to the scene in the early '70s? Bands started using electronic synthesizers, that trashed rock and roll for Ever!

They went for a sound that was good coming through a car radio- good sound from real speakers was a bonus for anyone with good speakers but if you look at the speaker market from 1960-1980, the majority got the job done, but not very well. Synths became common in the '60s.

 

[highfigh]

I was so surprised to hear how Tom Sholz recorded Boston's debut album. At the time, I was sort of disappointed (I think) but it sounded so good I got over it pretty quickly. Then I came to the compromise that if they could actually sing and play without it, I would look past it. Then I discovered how much trickery was going on from well before that. In many instances though, the bands live shows sucked in comparison to studio, enough to where I preferred studio versions of mainstream music, and still do.

I do not care so much about authenticism with recorded music, or even trying to emulate it with my system. As long as it is skillfully done and sounds excellent, I really enjoy it, and so much of it does. It helps that I can go find authentic accurately reproduced music anytime I want, or just find a live show somewhere. I really do not understand chasing such a standard all the time. I think so many set the bar there, just because it has been suggested to them, like the root of just about every fad that has ever been.

Did you know that Tom Scholz designed and built a lot of the equipment used for that first LP, other than the Ampex recorder? He modified and/or tweaked it to work & sound better, but he bought that. He graduated form MIT with degrees in EE and ME when he was 21. Then, he took the demo to the record company and that was released as their finished LP. Still disappointed? The best thing for them is that they didn't need to pay off a big recording advance.

Do you like the second Aerosmith LP? Did you know that some of the guitar tracks were played by Steve Hunter and lord helmet Wagner? If those names don't seem familiar, they were the guys who played the intro to 'Sweet Jane' on Lou Reed's 'Rock N Roll Animal' and recorded/toured with Alice Cooper.

'Train Kept A Rollin', one of the songs with Hunter and Wagner-

 

[mtbdudex]

Class of 1980 HS, 62 years old not quite retired, 3 kids.
Hmm, so I just bought a Denon A1H that replaced my Feb-2018 bought 8500H for my dedicated 2 row 4 seat basement 9.2.6 HT

On top of that I shelled out $480 for Dirac via 20% off.

The whole global economy is still recovering from Covid.
Some brand further consolidation will happen.

Btw, I have 2.1 audio in my basement office.
My 22 year old daughter I set her up with 2.1 instead of a soundbar. That turntable is hers , I was just using it temporarily.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[highfigh]

Class of 1980 HS, 62 years old not quite retired, 3 kids.
Hmm, so I just bought a Denon A1H that replaced my Feb-2018 bought 8500H for my dedicated 2 row 4 seat basement 9.2.6 HT




On top of that I shelled out $480 for Dirac via 20% off.


The whole global economy is still recovering from Covid.
Some brand further consolidation will happen.

Btw, I have 2.1 audio in my basement office.
My 22 year old daughter I set her up with 2.1 instead of a soundbar. That turntable is hers , I was just using it temporarily.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So, you don't use that desk for drafting anymore?

 

[mtbdudex]

So, you don't use that desk for drafting anymore?

Are you a fellow toolie??
If so are you in this FB group?

I got that drafting table from a work friend 20 years ago. It’s from GM tech center 12 mile and van dyke Warren MI. Was missing some parts, I made them, my wife used it initially as her craft room table, so we painted it bright green then.
Use it now in my basement office.
It still can be raised on an angle, but as setup now I don’t do that.

Drafting put me thru college and earn BSME & MSME, helped me minimize student loans.
That’s me lower left, well 41 years ago now…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mikado463]

Are you a fellow toolie??
If so are you in this FB group?

I got that drafting table from a work friend 20 years ago. It’s from GM tech center 12 mile and van dyke Warren MI. Was missing some parts, I made them, my wife used it initially as her craft room table, so we painted it bright green then.
Use it now in my basement office.
It still can be raised on an angle, but as setup now I don’t do that.

Drafting put me thru college and earn BSME & MSME, helped me minimize student loans.
That’s me lower left, well 41 years ago now…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow, thanks for the memories, back in the late sixties I took 'Design Technology' in HS and worked off many a table like those.

 

[MrBoat]

Did you know that Tom Scholz designed and built a lot of the equipment used for that first LP, other than the Ampex recorder? He modified and/or tweaked it to work & sound better, but he bought that. He graduated form MIT with degrees in EE and ME when he was 21. Then, he took the demo to the record company and that was released as their finished LP. Still disappointed? The best thing for them is that they didn't need to pay off a big recording advance.

Do you like the second Aerosmith LP? Did you know that some of the guitar tracks were played by Steve Hunter and lord helmet Wagner? If those names don't seem familiar, they were the guys who played the intro to 'Sweet Jane' on Lou Reed's 'Rock N Roll Animal' and recorded/toured with Alice Cooper.

'Train Kept A Rollin', one of the songs with Hunter and Wagner-

I said "I think" I was disappointed just from the shock factor from not knowing but it didn't last. Yes, I know all about Tom Sholz and have been a solid fan since I heard the very first lick on the radio. Back then, you had to catch the DJ mentioning the band name or it was going to be awhile, along with staying glued to the radio until you could find out who made that wonderful sound. At the time, I thought how incredible it was that they could get all the members to harmonize like that until I found out it was all (mostly?) Brad Delp. I just didn't know how to feel about it, is all. A lot of bands have used Sholz's inventions.

Aerosmith: Loved their first efforts and their debut albums was one of the first I ever bought with my own money, when I was transitioning from pop to rock. They were always in the lineup of records, but not my favorite. My favorite song by them is "Rats in the Cellar."

One of the things that added to the technical confusion at the time was seeing bands like ZZ Top perform live. They were pretty minimalist but still rocked without a lot of electronic help. Jefferson Starship was yet another. I didn't see much more equipment beyond that of some well equipped cover band in some cases. Their music was somehow more believable translated to recordings than others. Loved going to Kiss concerts, with the most technical wizardry coming from the likes of Pink Floyd with their wild light shows. Saw Ted Nugent live and he seemed pretty true to form on recordings, as well.

 

[highfigh]

Are you a fellow toolie??
If so are you in this FB group?


I got that drafting table from a work friend 20 years ago. It’s from GM tech center 12 mile and van dyke Warren MI. Was missing some parts, I made them, my wife used it initially as her craft room table, so we painted it bright green then.
Use it now in my basement office.
It still can be raised on an angle, but as setup now I don’t do that.

Drafting put me thru college and earn BSME & MSME, helped me minimize student loans.
That’s me lower left, well 41 years ago now…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I took drafting from 8th grade, through high school and into college, which is where I decided that I no longer wanted to be an architect. If I had spoken with different people, like friends did, I might have continued but several who finished, left the field or construction industry, some stayed and had set more realistic goals than I. I never stopped drawing/drafting, but I was also using a board that was too small to be practical. I later found a drafting machine (was really looking for a Post drafting arm or something similar, but found the one in the photo. I found the table early this year on FB Marketplace, for $35 and couldn't pass it up. Somehow, it's exactly the size needed for the machine and I didn't need to change anything. I just need to find the vertical scale- no idea where it went.....still need the cover but I did go out and buy some new lead holders, etc.

 

[highfigh]

I said "I think" I was disappointed just from the shock factor from not knowing but it didn't last. Yes, I know all about Tom Sholz and have been a solid fan since I heard the very first lick on the radio. Back then, you had to catch the DJ mentioning the band name or it was going to be awhile, along with staying glued to the radio until you could find out who made that wonderful sound. At the time, I thought how incredible it was that they could get all the members to harmonize like that until I found out it was all (mostly?) Brad Delp. I just didn't know how to feel about it, is all. A lot of bands have used Sholz's inventions.

Aerosmith: Loved their first efforts and their debut albums was one of the first I ever bought with my own money, when I was transitioning from pop to rock. They were always in the lineup of records, but not my favorite. My favorite song by them is "Rats in the Cellar."

One of the things that added to the technical confusion at the time was seeing bands like ZZ Top perform live. They were pretty minimalist but still rocked without a lot of electronic help. Jefferson Starship was yet another. I didn't see much more equipment beyond that of some well equipped cover band in some cases. Their music was somehow more believable translated to recordings than others. Loved going to Kiss concerts, with the most technical wizardry coming from the likes of Pink Floyd with their wild light shows. Saw Ted Nugent live and he seemed pretty true to form on recordings, as well.

There's still a lot of conversation about "I want them to play it like the record" and I" DON'T want them to play it like the record". Anyone can be a parrot and regurgitate the record, but I have to imagine that's one of the reasons so many band members leave, get it fights and go nuts after years of same old, same old. OTOH, I read a comment by someone who is very well known, even if I can't remember their name- "That song bought your house, cars, plane and just about everything else- play it like the record and be happy people still want to go to your shows".

I have seen many bands play it like the record and some were very precise and I have seen many play the music with much more freedom to veer away from the original but sill do it so it was very recognizable - the Dregs and Beat (half of the 1980's version of King Crimson) didn't stray too far from the original which flies in the face of what Gene Simmons said recently about people wanting simple music and that he liked a lot of great musicians, but can't sing or hum any of their music. The audiences for both of those bands KNOW the music inside & out. I was surprised by the number of women and younger people at both shows which were all music recorded roughly 40 years ago.

 

[MrBoat]

There's still a lot of conversation about "I want them to play it like the record" and I" DON'T want them to play it like the record". Anyone can be a parrot and regurgitate the record, but I have to imagine that's one of the reasons so many band members leave, get it fights and go nuts after years of same old, same old. OTOH, I read a comment by someone who is very well known, even if I can't remember their name- "That song bought your house, cars, plane and just about everything else- play it like the record and be happy people still want to go to your shows".

I have seen many bands play it like the record and some were very precise and I have seen many play the music with much more freedom to veer away from the original but sill do it so it was very recognizable - the Dregs and Beat (half of the 1980's version of King Crimson) didn't stray too far from the original which flies in the face of what Gene Simmons said recently about people wanting simple music and that he liked a lot of great musicians, but can't sing or hum any of their music. The audiences for both of those bands KNOW the music inside & out. I was surprised by the number of women and younger people at both shows which were all music recorded roughly 40 years ago.

There's really nothing to disagree with on any of how we measure music quality. Sound quality is yet something else. At the very least, the most synthesized of it is at least fluid, or melodic sound effects that still sound good to me regardless. I suppose I should be stricter in this regard but there seems to be enough time allotted in life for all of it. Was listening to Talking Heads "Speaking in Tongues" album last night and I could hear so many cool percussion effects and fun in the melodies. I listened from beginning to end. The group Yello/Boris Blank is another sort of nonsensical thing that keeps me from living in a perpetual short list loop of proper recordings. Will listen to several of their albums back-to-back. Fun stuff, regardless of how real or fake it is.