Denon and Marantz could cease operations in 2025

[Trebdp83]

Yes, that would be a concern.

 

[mono-bloc]

In Australia it really comes down to what the retailers are stocking and selling, We really only have one HF / Audio chain JB HF Who years ago had a large range of makes and models on display. Now your lucky to see one or two models living among the range of soundbars. Other retailers of large department stores, have a section for HF, together with Flat screens and soundbars. If you walk past the Bedding / Furniture sections. And you get to talk to a salesman who started last week High End Audio is really restricted to the states capital cities, and these can be counted on one hand. Sydney has two, Melbourne also has a couple and most are struggling to stay open.

 

[Hobbit]

My concern with an Apple-fied AVR is that it will be locked into Apple’s ecosystem. I watch 4K Blu-rays and Blu-rays for quality. I don’t want to use my Apple digital locker for anything other than convenience on low quality devices like iPhone and iPad screens. I only use my ATV4K for the small amount of shows I stream.

While I like the concept, as stated previously, I do have the same concerns. If you've seen my posts in the past, I'm not an Apple fan. Still, the industry needs a paradigm shift. I don't see them doing it themselves.

It is going to be interesting to watch what's going to happen with these companies. DOJ already recommends breaking up Google. Apple, which is bigger than Google (Alphabet) and Amazon are also being eyed both in the US and Globally. I've actually been surprised it's taken this long. Du and triopolies have been shown to be as concerning as monopolies on every level.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’m not losing any sleep over this.

Sure, sales probably went down this year for many companies. Unless they’re Yamaha or Sony, they’ll just sell these companies to other owners. Nothing new.

@M Code might chime in.

 

[TLS Guy]

I’d love a Denon by Apple with a touch screen front panel and Thunderbolt ports alongside HDMI ports. Siri could change input sources, sound modes and volume levels.

A receiver by Apple could receive Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos signals over Airplay 2. Hell, I can already do such a thing directly to my TV using Airplay 2 on my Mac mini M1. I had an M4 for a brief moment, but that is for another thread.

No you don't want a receiver by anyone! Receivers are at the bottom of this whole debacle. Receivers need to be on the ashbin of history and the sooner the better. They were always a terrible idea and the sooner they are gone the better. All you need is a control device and active ethernet connected speakers. That is the way forward that will massively increase SQ, reliability, make use of what people already own. That is just an obvious way forward out of this dilemma. Receivers are, and always were an abomination and the sooner they are gone the better. Now we have a chance to boot them for good and make cheaper, better and more flexible systems.

 

[multisport4me]

I see this this type of comment on the guitar forums I go to. I call it the Curmudgeons effect. Kids nowadays blah blah blah.

To counterpoint, how many of us had an HT or if old enough, an audiophile quality 2 channel systems when we were in our 20s? Back then we were in college and moving from apartment to apartment. It wasn't until I was older and bought my first house that I started putting together a higher end system. Yes, I do see some truth to it. My GF's kids will watch movies on their smart phone with buds in their ears. But usually it's only because they figured out how to stream movies still in the theater on their phones or we're not home and they're watching TV shows while we're dining out.

One thing I have to give Apple credit for is taking ideas and making them user friendly and accessible. Look what they did with the mp3 player and smartphone. They also have a far reaching influence. Even if they didn't invent it or even simplify a technology, they can make it cool. If Apple bought Marantz, rebranded it, massaged it to make it user friendly, made it to work seamlessly with their phones, Apple TV (if this functionality isn't just built into the AVR), and TVs, I'm sure it would be a big boon to the industry. It would raise the bar and others would have to follow suit. Not that I would expect the kids to go overboard with a high end system for reasons I previously stated.

LOL - I'm actually a guitarist. But I can only agree with your curmudgeon theory to a point. I have four kids and can tell you they consume music and video very differently. Yea, they think my home theater and guitars are super cool but beyond being impressed for a moment, they go right back to listening to their Airpods and watching Tiktoks on their phones. An upgrade to them might be a BT speaker. Maybe. They consume everything in bytes (pun intended). There is a generational shift in how media is consumed and there is nothing "curmudgeony" about it - its a fact.

Suffice it to say, there are several contributing factors that range from disposable income, how media is consumed, evolving technology, etc. that is shaking up this dinosaur of a hobby. My main point is that Sound United is made up of too many brands for an addressable market that is shrinking. That said, I think parts of it will survive and do not believe it will be a complete shut down. Either someone buys the whole thing for pennies on the dollar and sell off/shuts down some brands or the brands are sold off piece meal by Masimo - its going to be very different and I for one would like to see D&M stick around. Yes, they will need to innovate to attract a new (dare I say younger?) customer base and that addressable market will be a niche....just like the good ole' days of home theater. But the idea of them not being around really sucks a$$.

 

[gene]

This is a nonsense article. Sound United is NOT ceasing to exist under Masimo. They are just not counting SU revenues under the Masimo brand in 2025 from what I'm understanding. The brands don't appear to be in any danger of going out of business in the foreseeable future.

 

[multisport4me]

This is a nonsense article. Sound United is NOT ceasing to exist under Masimo. They are just not counting SU revenues under the Masimo brand in 2025 from what I'm understanding. The brands don't appear to be in any danger of going out of business in the foreseeable future.

I hope you're right...at least about D&M. That said, I cannot fathom they just cease operations so they will just keep trying to extract as much as they can until they divest themselves. What that will look like when it finally happens is anybody's guess...I'm merely speculating that not all of the brands will survive when that all happens and pulling for the two I care most about.

 

[Trebdp83]

No you don't want a receiver by anyone! Receivers are at the bottom of this whole debacle. Receivers need to be on the ashbin of history and the sooner the better. They were always a terrible idea and the sooner they are gone the better. All you need is a control device and active ethernet connected speakers. That is the way forward that will massively increase SQ, reliability, make use of what people already own. That is just an obvious way forward out of this dilemma. Receivers are, and always were an abomination and the sooner they are gone the better. Now we have a chance to boot them for good and make cheaper, better and more flexible systems.

Am I bovvered?!! Many use multichannel receivers that have been in service for decades. Nobody interested in a multichannel setup is in a hurry to wire in power outlets for all new powered speakers and trashing their current setup.

As for Masimo, they should never have purchased Sound United. Apple should offer them a lot more money for it than it is worth and settle that patent infringement back and forth mess for good.

 

[Tok]

This is a nonsense article. Sound United is NOT ceasing to exist under Masimo. They are just not counting SU revenues under the Masimo brand in 2025 from what I'm understanding. The brands don't appear to be in any danger of going out of business in the foreseeable future.

I was hoping someone in the know would jump in here. Thanks for the update Gene.

though who would have thought Bose would buy McIntosh. Strange times in the AV industry.

 

[Tok]

Am I bovvered?!! Many use multichannel receivers that have been in service for decades. Nobody interested in a multichannel setup is in a hurry to wire in power outlets for all new powered speakers and trashing their current setup.

As for Masimo, they should never have purchased Sound United. Apple should offer them a lot more money for it than it is worth and settle that patent infringement back and forth mess for good.

I just don’t think some people realize how much AVR/AVPs do. I can’t imagine trying to do all that well without a centralized hub.

 

[Hobbit]

LOL - I'm actually a guitarist. But I can only agree with your curmudgeon theory to a point. I have four kids and can tell you they consume music and video very differently. Yea, they think my home theater and guitars are super cool but beyond being impressed for a moment, they go right back to listening to their Airpods and watching Tiktoks on their phones. An upgrade to them might be a BT speaker. Maybe. They consume everything in bytes (pun intended). There is a generational shift in how media is consumed and there is nothing "curmudgeony" about it - its a fact.

And I'm not a guitarist? Of course, media is nearly a 100% different thing from when I was a kid. As a child all the way through HS, probably college too, I had no interest in anything my parents had for more than a couple of minutes. Let alone a HT. But I do see most the young kids (starting out after college) have big screen TVs, soundbars, and a streamers. So, generalizing that kids don't give a .... is being a curmudgeon! So I looked up some stats and found:

Under 30 vs 50+ years old (I randomly chose these ages)
- Owning a TV: 81% vs 84%
- Watching TV: 2 vs 3-4 hours/day.
- Viewing media on a phone: 4-9 vs 2-3 hours/day

Owning a TV is pretty darn close. The TV watching is about what I was expecting. The stats say TV watching goes up with age too. Which may still turn out to be true. Overall viewing combined is clearly ahead for under 30yo's. I can't help but think as they age, TV watching, no matter what they're viewing, will go up and time on their phone will go down. Especially if technology makes it seamless. As I've aged my eyes can't stare at a smart phone screen for as long as they used to. There's clearly be a market for TVs and HTs. HTs has always been a niche market, and it may even be argued with soundbars it's more popular than ever.

What TLS Guy proposed, and I agree, is making a HT system with basically as many powered BT (or any other wireless standard) speakers as you want. Or even a single BT amp going to passive speakers. It's simpler and an extension of modern technology. The latter being the most important part for the end user.

 

[highfigh]

I’d love a Denon by Apple with a touch screen front panel and Thunderbolt ports alongside HDMI ports. Siri could change input sources, sound modes and volume levels.

A receiver by Apple could receive Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos signals over Airplay 2. Hell, I can already do such a thing directly to my TV using Airplay 2 on my Mac mini M1. I had an M4 for a brief moment, but that is for another thread.

Front screen touch panel, so you can get up and go to it when you want to change something? That's why apps and remote controls are developed- to make it easy to change settings without getting up.

 

[highfigh]

In Australia it really comes down to what the retailers are stocking and selling, We really only have one HF / Audio chain JB HF Who years ago had a large range of makes and models on display. Now your lucky to see one or two models living among the range of soundbars. Other retailers of large department stores, have a section for HF, together with Flat screens and soundbars. If you walk past the Bedding / Furniture sections. And you get to talk to a salesman who started last week High End Audio is really restricted to the states capital cities, and these can be counted on one hand. Sydney has two, Melbourne also has a couple and most are struggling to stay open.

Is this a surprise? Why would you expect to have a variety of B&M stores when internet sales has killed that source?

 

[highfigh]

Am I bovvered?!! Many use multichannel receivers that have been in service for decades. Nobody interested in a multichannel setup is in a hurry to wire in power outlets for all new powered speakers and trashing their current setup.

As for Masimo, they should never have purchased Sound United. Apple should offer them a lot more money for it than it is worth and settle that patent infringement back and forth mess for good.

If you check the electrical code, you'll see that it requires outlets be installed at some distance from each other, to prevent plugging everything into one, using inadequate extension cords and overloading the circuits.

Why would anyone pay more than anything is worth?

 

[Mikado463]

No you don't want a receiver by anyone! Receivers are at the bottom of this whole debacle. Receivers need to be on the ashbin of history and the sooner the better. They were always a terrible idea and the sooner they are gone the better. All you need is a control device and active ethernet connected speakers. That is the way forward that will massively increase SQ, reliability, make use of what people already own. That is just an obvious way forward out of this dilemma. Receivers are, and always were an abomination and the sooner they are gone the better. Now we have a chance to boot them for good and make cheaper, better and more flexible systems.

We need to re-name you 'Doom-n-Gloom' ! Saying receivers 'were always a terrible idea' ?? what a bunch of horse turds !!! 50 years ago there no 'control devices and ethernet' !! They without question had their place in audio, now, with evolution(your a doctor, so I'm sure you understand) , other and in some cases better solutions have come down the pike.

Now go give your grandkids a hug, perhaps that will make you realize how good things can be .............

 

[Trebdp83]

Front screen touch panel, so you can get up and go to it when you want to change something? That's why apps and remote controls are developed- to make it easy to change settings without getting up.

Obviously, a remote controller and control app would be included as are now. But, a touch screen that included movie/album artwork as well ad the source/sound mode info would be a welcome inclusion.

 

[highfigh]

Obviously, a remote controller and control app would be included as are now. But, a touch screen that included movie/album artwork as well ad the source/sound mode info would be a welcome inclusion.

How close to the AVR do you sit?

 

[Trebdp83]

Do you really give a s#%t?

 

[everettT]

Front screen touch panel, so you can get up and go to it when you want to change something? That's why apps and remote controls are developed- to make it easy to change settings without getting up.

This sold so many Crestron installs in the early 2000s but code had to be rewritten to often. Niles sold a hard button controller that just worked, wasn't as sexy but worked. This shouldn't be hard at this point with modern products and IP control, as long as manufacturers provide the appropriate data.