Denon and Marantz could cease operations in 2025

[everettT]

In Australia it really comes down to what the retailers are stocking and selling, We really only have one HF / Audio chain JB HF Who years ago had a large range of makes and models on display. Now your lucky to see one or two models living among the range of soundbars. Other retailers of large department stores, have a section for HF, together with Flat screens and soundbars. If you walk past the Bedding / Furniture sections. And you get to talk to a salesman who started last week High End Audio is really restricted to the states capital cities, and these can be counted on one hand. Sydney has two, Melbourne also has a couple and most are struggling to stay open.

What is high end audio to dealers? To the dealers it's installation and control, quality audio be damned.

 

[highfigh]

This sold so many Crestron installs in the early 2000s but code had to be rewritten to often. Niles sold a hard button controller that just worked, wasn't as sexy but worked. This shouldn't be hard at this point with modern products and IP control, as long as manufacturers provide the appropriate data.

None of these is a "front panel touch screen", as you wrote.

I worked for a Crestron dealer when the iPad was introduced and someone wrote a Crestron control app almost immediately- I sure would have hated being one of the salespeople who got the customers to fire up for a $12K Crestron control panel.

You wrote the operative phrase- "as long as manufacturers provide the appropriate data".

 

[highfigh]

Do you really give a s#%t?

Who pissed in your Wheaties?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

We need to re-name you 'Doom-n-Gloom' ! Saying receivers 'were always a terrible idea' ?? what a bunch of horse turds !!! 50 years ago there no 'control devices and ethernet' !! They without question had their place in audio, now, with evolution(your a doctor, so I'm sure you understand) , other and in some cases better solutions have come down the pike.

Now go give your grandkids a hug, perhaps that will make you realize how good things can be .............

Grumpy Old Man.

 

[highfigh]

What is high end audio to dealers? To the dealers it's installation and control, quality audio be damned.

Mass marketing dealers want to see $$$, not strokers. It's still possible to build a smaller solid retail operation, but sales can no longer drive it; after-sales support, service, accessory sales and installation need to provide substantial revenue. It's not easy, but the ones who are successful have happy repeat customers and get new business through referrals.

 

[everettT]

None of these is a "front panel touch screen", as you wrote.

I worked for a Crestron dealer when the iPad was introduced and someone wrote a Crestron control app almost immediately- I sure would have hated being one of the salespeople who got the customers to fire up for a $12K Crestron control panel.

You wrote the operative phrase- "as long as manufacturers provide the appropriate data".

I was saying that the touchscreen panels from Crestron sold themselves as convenience (for people with discretionary income), sorry for the confusion.

 

[Trebdp83]

Who pissed in your Wheaties?

I haven't had breakfast but I'll give it a sniff before I dig in.

 

[TLS Guy]

Mass marketing dealers want to see $$$, not strokers. It's still possible to build a smaller solid retail operation, but sales can no longer drive it; after-sales support, service, accessory sales and installation need to provide substantial revenue. It's not easy, but the ones who are successful have happy repeat customers and get new business through referrals.

Glad I don't have to pay for that. I do support my local dealers when I can. My issue is that I hardly ever buy anything! Years go by, before I buy anything new. My speakers are all DIY so no business there for local dealers, and the electronic I have changed is updating TVs, bought locally, and the AVPs updated three times in 20 years bought locally from Hi-Fi sound. I have updated, well largely added disc players, some bought locally, but two not. I have updated the internals of HTPCs over the years, but that is not something dealers stock. So unfortunately I do not get a lot of opportunity to support local dealers. I have always planned for the long haul. That is the cheapest way to get results and enjoy this hobby.

The problem as I see it, is that I know many who would like it, but are totally intimidated by the complexity. They do not feel they could ever get their minds round an AVR.

I really don't think we need these auto Eq setups for a start.

I think active, not powered speakers, with good Wi-Fi connectivity would bring a lot more to the table. I think with economies of scale better results could be obtained at less cost. Passive components have increased in cost enormously mainly because of the cost of inductors. I note manufacturers to keep costs down seem to progressively reduce the wire gauge of inductors. This is bad and puts a needless DC resistance in series with drivers. On the passive boards I have made the cost of the components was very significant. With the cost of good class D amps coming down active speakers could be on the market at competitive prices and offer performance far above passive designs.

Now if you don't want old analog sources then making the system easily set up and controllable from devices people already own is not a stretch. Streaming is no problem and disc players could easily be made Wi-Fi compatible.

I just don't buy this idea that AC outlets are a problem. Many will be nearby and adding AC outlets is commonly and easily done. So actually it would be a cosmetic upgrade compared to long speaker cables going to the "birds nests" at the back of AVRs.

I do believe was have the ability to offer a huge increase in quality for the many and make it user friendly by designing round devices they already own.

Unless some wise corporate leaders have the foresight to make significant change I fear good AV in the home could be just part of our history. There are just not enough of us "nerds" for a healthy sustainable market.

I close this with one last question. Would you rather power your system with a device crammed with power amps fed form a totally inadequate power supply with sleight of hand often times to meet testing procedures, or a system with amps designed specifically and optimally for the transducer they are connected to, that will always deliver the stated power under all conditions. I know which I vote for. That is the way ALL my systems are designed and I know it is the correct engineering approach.

 

[Hobbit]

Am I bovvered?!! Many use multichannel receivers that have been in service for decades. Nobody interested in a multichannel setup is in a hurry to wire in power outlets for all new powered speakers and trashing their current setup.

If you check the electrical code, you'll see that it requires outlets be installed at some distance from each other, to prevent plugging everything into one, using inadequate extension cords and overloading the circuits.

My comment in the Focal wireless speaker review thread was why didn't they make the speakers gangable? Thus, the front speakers can be ganged together and only need to use 1 outlet. Dito for the rears.

New and newer houses have more power outlets than older houses to accommodate modern technology and appliances. Modern homes also have higher amperage electrical panels to facilitate this.

I also don't think passive speakers are going away any time soon. A simple solution utilizing the same concept is a multichannel amp(s) with the necessary built in wireless (BT or whatever) capabilities. What's cool is there are a lot more placement options.

We need to think outside the box and change our paradigms.