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Audioholic Slumlord
I’m glad to know someone reads my posts. What gets into newspapers on these topics is usually so vague that it’s meaningless.


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I read your posts as well. They are more informative then the news.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Swerd / TLS Guy, thank you for continuing to take the high road in this discussion while the L/R nut jobs here continue to act like the current resident @ 1600 Pennsylvania Ave ........
There's another thread entitled Corona Virus, non political. This implies that one can vent in this thread.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I’m glad to know someone reads my posts. What gets into newspapers on these topics is usually so vague that it’s meaningless.
...
Newspapers don't write for the better educated, at least many don't, I don't think.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I couldn't get past that Tucker guy and his evidence at 11:45 into the video.
So, here is the rest of the story on that Gregory Rigano:

Will FOX or Tucker expos this lunacy? Of course not
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
What gets into newspapers on these topics is usually so vague that it’s meaningless.
Newspapers don't write for the better educated, at least many don't, I don't think.
What I meant is that when newspapers report on scientific topics, such as we now see with Coronavirus test troubles, they dumb things down too much. Of course, most reporters and editors don't understand the science well enough to comment intelligently. If I remember correctly, in the 1990s, only the NY Times and Washington Post had science reporters who understood basic sciences.

Most newspapers or internet news sites, also have editorial policies on what language levels can go into their articles. In the 1990s, that meant any story about antibody test kits couldn't use the word 'protein'. It was thought to be too far above the heads of their readers. I don't know what their standard practice is now.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
What I meant is that when newspapers report on scientific topics, such as we now see with Coronavirus test troubles, they dumb things down too much. Of course, most reporters and editors don't understand the science well enough to comment intelligently. If I remember correctly, in the 1990s, only the NY Times and Washington Post had science reporters who understood basic sciences.

Most newspapers or internet news sites, also have editorial policies on what language levels can go into their articles. In the 1990s, that meant any story about antibody test kits couldn't use the word 'protein'. It was thought to be too far above the heads of their readers. I don't know what their standard practice is now.
I assert that there's a distinction to be made between language and content.

Language can be made accessible while still having good content, though that tends to increase length. See NPR long-form reporting, or sites like ARSTechnica as examples.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So where are we now?

Parts of Europe and parts of North America seem to be at or just past peak. In Minnesota we seem well away from peak. There are rash efforts in states like Georgia that will almost certainly have serious negative consequences.

The Hydroxychloraquine trial has been stopped due to increased mortality. Not only did it not reduce ventilator usage, but increased mortality from 11.4% to 27.8%. I was afraid this would be the case. So you can see why the good Dr Fauci was at odds with president Trump over this. Trump had absolutely no business touting this in the way he did.

Skin lesions are showing up. Clotting issues are occurring mostly small vessel but some large.


These seem particularly common in affected children. The lesions look suspiciously like leukoclastic vasculitis to me, which is an immune inflammation of blood vessels. This very likely means many severely affected patients will not make a full recovery and some will be seriously disabled and have shortened life spans.

The more we get to see this virus the more serious it looks.

On a more optimistic note, Oxford University are going to start a trial of their recombitant DNA vaccine tomorrow. They want to enroll over 1000 volunteers between 18 and 55 years old who test negative for the virus. It will be double blinded with half getting the injection and half placebo. Follow up is 6 months. If it proves to be safe, and induce antibodies that prove effective, then as far as I can tell there will be rapid gear up for general distribution. In the UK this is being fought as a war. The government have committed 45 million pounds to this study. Sarah Gilbert rates the chances of success at 80%. If she pulls this off she will be remembered down the ages.

Of course hard times encourage the scammers. This piece of nonsense caught my attention today.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Skin lesions are showing up. Clotting issues are occurring mostly small vessel but some large. . . .

These seem particularly common in affected children. The lesions look suspiciously like leukoclastic vasculitis to me, which is an immune inflammation of blood vessels. This very likely means many severely affected patients will not make a full recovery and some will be seriously disabled and have shortened life spans.

The more we get to see this virus the more serious it looks.
I'm not sure if this directly related to lesions and clotting you mentioned, but your post reminded me of an article I saw at thelancet.com:

>>>SARS-CoV-2 infects the host using the angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor, which is expressed in several organs, including the lung, heart, kidney, and intestine. ACE2 receptors are also expressed by endothelial cells. Whether vascular derangements in COVID-19 are due to endothelial cell involvement by the virus is currently unknown. Intriguingly, SARS-CoV-2 can directly infect engineered human blood vessel organoids in vitro. Here we demonstrate endothelial cell involvement across vascular beds of different organs in a series of patients with COVID-19 (further case details are provided in the appendix).<<<

 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Thanks for the news. As always :), I have questions and comments.
Parts of Europe and parts of North America seem to be at or just past peak.
Today's Washington Post reported that at least two people who died Feb. 6 and 17 from Santa Clara, CA (south side of San Francisco Bay) were infected with corona virus. Both died earlier that the previously first reported death on Feb. 29 in Kirkland, WA. These two people had not traveled before becoming ill. These early February deaths suggest that active SARS-CoV-2 infections were in the USA as early as the first week of January 2020.
The Hydroxychloraquine trial has been stopped due to increased mortality. Not only did it not reduce ventilator usage, but increased mortality from 11.4% to 27.8%. I was afraid this would be the case. So you can see why the good Dr Fauci was at odds with president Trump over this. Trump had absolutely no business touting this in the way he did.
I also am not surprised. Do you have a link? If I recall, there was more than one hydroxychloroquine trial.
Skin lesions are showing up. Clotting issues are occurring mostly small vessel but some large. … These seem particularly common in affected children. The lesions look suspiciously like leukoclastic vasculitis to me, which is an immune inflammation of blood vessels. This very likely means many severely affected patients will not make a full recovery and some will be seriously disabled and have shortened life spans.
Are these skin lesions in Covid-19 patients, or those Covid-19 patients who received hydroxychloroquine?
The more we get to see this virus the more serious it looks.
There are now several recent reports linking ACE2 with the product of the gene TMPRSS2, a transmembrane serine protease enzyme:

Hoffman et al., 2020, Cell 181, 271-280
SARS-CoV-2 Cell Entry Depends on ACE2and TMPRSS2 and Is Blocked by a Clinically Proven Protease Inhibitor

Abstract:​
The recent emergence of the novel, pathogenic SARS-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in China and its rapid national and international spread pose a global health emergency. Cell entry of coronaviruses depends on binding of the viral spike (S) proteins to cellular receptors and on S protein priming by host cell proteases. Unravelling which cellular factors are used by SARS-CoV-2 for entry might provide insights into viral transmission and reveal therapeutic targets. Here, we demonstrate that SARS-CoV-2 uses the SARS-CoV receptor ACE2 for entry and the serine protease TMPRSS2 for S protein priming. A TMPRSS2 inhibitor approved for clinical use blocked entry and might constitute a treatment option …​

This led others to look for cells in respiratory and intestinal tissue that express both ACE2 and TMPRSS2. The authors of the next paper turned to single-cell RNA sequencing, which identifies which of roughly 20,000 genes are “on” in individual cells. They found that only a small percentage of human respiratory and intestinal cells, often well below 10%, make both ACE2 and TMPRSS2. Those cells fall in three types:
  • goblet cells in the nose that secrete mucus
  • lung cells known as type II pneumocytes that help maintain the alveoli (the sacs where oxygen is taken in)
  • one type of so-called enterocytes that line the small intestine and are involved in nutrient absorption.
Ziegler et al., 2020, Cell 181, Pre-proof
SARS-CoV-2 receptor ACE2 is an interferon-stimulated gene in human airway epithelial cells and is detected in specific cell subsets across tissues

Abstract:​
There is pressing urgency to understand the pathogenesis of the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2) which causes the disease COVID-19. SARS-CoV-2spike (S)-protein binds ACE2, and inconcert with host proteases, principallyTMPRSS2, promotes cellular entry. The cell subsets targeted by SARS-CoV-2 in host tissues, and the factors that regulate ACE2 expression, remain unknown. Here, we leverage human, non-human primate, and mouse single-cell RNA-sequencing (scRNA-seq) datasets across health and disease to uncover putative targets of SARS-CoV-2 amongst tissue-resident cell subsets. We identify ACE2 and TMPRSS2 co-expressing cells within lung type II pneumocytes, ileal absorptive enterocytes, and nasal goblet secretory cells. Strikingly, we discover that ACE2 is ahuman interferon-stimulated gene (ISG) in vitro using airway epithelial cells, and extend our findings to in vivo viral infections. Our data suggest that SARS-CoV-2 could exploit species-specific interferon-driven upregulation of ACE2, a tissue-protective mediator during lung injury, to enhance infection.​

These results strongly suggest that some respiratory cells are especially vulnerable to coronavirus because they express the two trans-membrane proteins, ACE2 and TMPRSS2. ACE2, a receptor protein, engages with the coronavirus’ spike protein, and TMPRSS2, a protease, cleaves the spike protein, allowing the viral and cellular membranes to fuse. Both ACE2 and TMPRSS2 are expressed more abundantly in certain progenitor cells – cells which normally develop into respiratory tract cells lined with cilia (hair-like projections) that sweep mucus and bacteria out of the lungs.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The study I sourced was the recent VA study, that had to stop the hydoxychloraquine study due to excess mortality.

The ACE II story in interesting and complex. Of course these receptors are widespread and in the kidney also, and targeted by ACE inhibitors (angiotensin II converting enzyme inhibitors) to treat hypertension. A common side effect in a lot of people is intractable non productive cough. That is why ARBs where developed to block the reuptake of angiotensin by the ACE receptors.

It does look as though these receptors are likely the entry point for this virus. So people are looking at whether people taking ARBs like myself, have any protection from the virus. I would not advocate anyone to go looking for ARBs! They might be making it worse.

It does though look like this virus needs to be added to the list of nasty infectious agents that cause an immune vasculitis. The principle agents causing this reaction are the gram positive cocci, especially the meningococcus. It is well known in pnuemococcal infections also. This problem is much more severe in patients who have had a splenectomy, so I would worry that splenectomized patients may be at especially high risk of death. The images and the clotting patterns reported strongly suggest a vasculitis to me.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The ACE II story in interesting and complex. Of course these receptors are widespread and in the kidney also, and targeted by ACE inhibitors (angiotensin II converting enzyme inhibitors) to treat hypertension. A common side effect in a lot of people is intractable non productive cough. That is why ARBs were developed to block the reuptake of angiotensin by the ACE receptors.

It does look as though these receptors are likely the entry point for this virus. So people are looking at whether people taking ARBs like myself, have any protection from the virus. I would not advocate anyone to go looking for ARBs! They might be making it worse.
The Hoffman et al. paper showed that an inhibitor of TMPSS2, camostat mesilate, can be effective at preventing virus uptake by lung cells. This should also be investigated in clinical trials. Camostat mesilate is presently approved in Japan for use in pancreatic inflammation.

See this idea discussed further here.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Unfortunately it looks like the revised 60,000 fatality estimate won't even hold through the end of next week. :confused:
There is nothing to be confused about. 60,000 is an estimate, not fact or written in law. All estimates end up being under or over, just by a matter of degree.

What you must not be confused about is that Covid 19 is a nasty and dangerous infection with a wide case to case variation in severity. So you need to take heed and be careful. That is what you should not be confused about. and I should add, not be in a state of denial about either. Just pray that either the recombitant RNA or DNA technologies work out. If not the world will get into a much worse fix that it is now.

The closest parallel is actually the small pox epidemic of the late eighteenth century, and its recurring peaks. It got going in earnest in 1794. Jenner came up with his vaccine in 1775. That caused an economic depression worse than the great crash of 1929. Again scientific research saved the day. Back then though people were not used to science saving the day in situations like we have now. So it took a while for Dr Jenner's work to be accepted. Yes, there were anti vaccers back then! In the UK parallels are being drawn to that epidemic more then the 1918 Spanish flu. That probably has more to teach us now than any other historic event. It was compounded though by very cold weather in Europe. Of course history is not the American thing!
 
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