JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Do you vote for people when you disagree with what they say and want to do when/if they're elected just because they're the lesser of two evils?
Of course. Every single vote as there's no one I 100% agree with.

Better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

What if everything they accomplish is the opposite of what you believe in and want for the country?
Then I would wonder how they were the lesser evil... but based on your premise, the other person was worse.

How long do you think Biden's attention span will allow him to remain in office?
Longer than Trump. Though that question (on top of several other fallacies) reductionist to the point of error.

Peoples' blind devotion has always been the path to destruction.
Yep. I've been making that complaint for a long time. To add insult to injury are the people claiming to be independent voters making up their own mind but who vote quite consistently anyway and regardless of actual facts.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
You don't need a large number of people to get a high level of significance if it is highly effective. The original blind trial of penicillin for pneumococcal pneumonia, in WW II I think involved 10 people. It was a big problem in the troops, my father almost died of it. Any how 5 with pneumonia got it and five did not. The five that got it resolved quickly.
That was in 1945, over 75 years ago. The drug testing and approval climate was significantly different back then. And penicillin is a small molecule therapeutic drug that had already been extensively used on soldiers during the war, without formal drug testing. It's effect was well known.
You are used to cancer trials were we are used to 15 to 20% response rates. If the response rate is close to 100% you only need a small sample size.
You're right about that. I am being used to cancer clinical trials where baseline response rates are in the 15-20% range and new treatments are hoped to have response rates as high as 40-50%.

Because I'm not familiar with the existing testing requirements for preventative vaccines for infectious diseases, I spent some time searching and came up with a short reading list of recent publications. Consider them a starting point, and let the experts at the FDA and NIAID put their heads together with reasonable politicians to decide on how to cut corners.

A good recent summary of Corona Virus Vaccine Projects
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/15/coronavirus-vaccine-prospects

Another summary reflecting opinions from industry insiders
https://www.biocentury.com/article/304919

A short paper on the importance of randomized clinical trials (note that I said randomized, not blind or double blind)
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/blog/vaccine-randomized-clinical-trials

Ideas on vaccine development reflecting recent Ebola virus experience
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1002632

I'll stop there. These ideas don't come close to the shortcuts you want. But they do reflect what has been recently done, in calmer times, and what is presently possible and practical in the vaccine field.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Swerd, thank you for that literature search.

Now this is hot off the press. It is nearly tomorrow in the UK so this Lancet publication is dated April 18, 2020.

This story was on the UK six O'clock news today. So noon here. Anyhow it related to the Oxford Jenner Institute collaboration with the "spooks" at Porton Down. According to BBC this team aim to inject a million doses of their recombinant DNA vaccine this coming September. This is taking on the drive of a wartime push in the UK.

So this team may get the prize. Their charge all along has been military defense against novel infections for over a hundred years. I doubt anyone in the world has more experience with nasty infectious agents than this group. They have been thinking about this for years and years. But because it is largely a top secret unit under the military they have inhabited the shadowy world the intelligence services and have not been in the light of day. I suspect now they will have to emerge. I know this really sounds like a movie script, but there it is.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Now this is hot off the press. It is nearly tomorrow in the UK so this Lancet publication is dated April 18, 2020.
Thanks for the news about Sarah Gilbert at Oxford. She's got the recombinant DNA vaccine approach covered. Not too surprised that the recombinant virus was getting pre-clinical testing at Porton Down, where they probably have the best available Level 4 isolation facilities as well as the best security.

Gilbert's early vaccine work … look[ing] at creating vaccine candidates that could trigger favourable T-cell responses, rather than relying solely on antibody responses … is critical. There must be a CD4 killer T-cell response that directly kills human host cells infected by the virus. This is like the Salk polio vaccine (worked only by an antibody response) vs. the more effective Sabin vaccine (worked by both antibody and T-cell responses).

If she has early progress, that £2·2 million grant will require more funding, hopefully from a Big Pharma company with deeper pockets.

Scaling up the manufacturing process is critical, and that appears to be going on in parallel with separate funding.

Gilbert … hopes to have vaccinated 500 volunteers by mid-May; this will be followed by an extension of the maximum age of trial volunteers from 55 to 70 years, later moving on to the over-70 age group. This age group, >55 years old, is often tested in later clinical trials. Better to get started on that age group right away. The trial with 500 volunteers can be considered as similar to what the FDA calls a Phase 2 clinical trial in the US. It will probably be given an interim analysis for efficacy, and if those results are good enough, enrollment will be expanded.

Phase 3 expansion is expected to involve 5,000 volunteers; results from the earlier [smaller] trials will be included in the efficacy follow-up. I wasn't far off when I said a Phase 3 trial would be in the range of 1,000 to 10,000 volunteers. This many vaccinations depends heavily on the success of the parallel manufacturing scale-up efforts.

“The best-case scenario is that by the autumn of 2020, we have an efficacy result from phase 3 and the ability to manufacture large amounts of the vaccine, but these best-case time frames are highly ambitious and subject to change”, Gilbert says. I wish her the best possible luck in her trials. It will be high pressure on all involved.

Of course, that kind of luck also means there will still be considerable levels of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the UK between over the summer. That also means no one in the UK is considering deliberately exposing anyone to live virus as a challenge to the vaccination. Trials elsewhere in the world, Europe, Asia, Africa, North & South America, and Australia are essential, both to test for efficacy among different human populations, and to ensure that somewhere still has active virus infections going on.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Situation is very good in my country all things considered. Although we're bordering Italy and we're very close to Austria, we had infected early on and had a strong earthquake in our capital, we still have only 1814 infected, 600 cured and 36 dead.

We had no surge in numbers after the quake and even though we're a small country, in relative numbers, percentage wise we're at the top with some of the best results.

We started with quarantine measures when we had 20 infected and people really took to the measures. I'm pleasantly surprised. People are for the vast majority very reasonable and patient.

This gave some outstanding results. We're talking about loosening the quarantine after only 36 people died. And the number of newly infected is starting to drop.

My thoughts are with you! I wish you the same outcome.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Situation is very good in my country all things considered. Although we're bordering Italy and we're very close to Austria, we had infected early on and had a strong earthquake in our capital, we still have only 1814 infected, 600 cured and 36 dead.

We had no surge in numbers after the quake and even though we're a small country, in relative numbers, percentage wise we're at the top with some of the best results.

We started with quarantine measures when we had 20 infected and people really took to the measures. I'm pleasantly surprised. People are for the vast majority very reasonable and patient.

This gave some outstanding results. We're talking about loosening the quarantine after only 36 people died. And the number of newly infected is starting to drop.

My thoughts are with you! I wish you the same outcome.
So glad things are going well for you. Unfortunately we have a nut job in charge here who is now Tweeting to encourage civil insurrection and I'm not kidding.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Situation is very good in my country all things considered. Although we're bordering Italy and we're very close to Austria, we had infected early on and had a strong earthquake in our capital, we still have only 1814 infected, 600 cured and 36 dead.

We had no surge in numbers after the quake and even though we're a small country, in relative numbers, percentage wise we're at the top with some of the best results.

We started with quarantine measures when we had 20 infected and people really took to the measures. I'm pleasantly surprised. People are for the vast majority very reasonable and patient.

This gave some outstanding results. We're talking about loosening the quarantine after only 36 people died. And the number of newly infected is starting to drop.

My thoughts are with you! I wish you the same outcome.
Good to see this- is that 1814 number the total from the beginning and if so, have they published the number of people who are currently infected?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
So glad things are going well for you. Unfortunately we have a nut job in charge here who is now Tweeting to encourage civil insurrection and I'm not kidding.
Some county officials in Wisconsin are going online to post their objections to the additional time frame for 'Safer At Home' and have written that they will be opening some kinds of businesses, including golf courses. Technically, they're probably correct in their belief that what Gov Evers did is illegal and unconstitutional, but without a vaccine, the only things that will prevent the spread is making sure everything is clean and people are maintaining isolation. Knowing that it's possible to become infected by someone who's not showing symptoms or whose symptoms are mild doesn't make me want to run out to golf or go to the places that may open. While we may have the right to assemble and go to some public places, NOBODY has the right to infect another person through ignorance of their health and with the current state of testing, there's no way to know.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I just listened to Governor Cuomo talk and I have to say that he definately has my respect, this coming from a Canadian. He layed out logically, that testing is key to reopen the state of New York and went through the current logistical problems in New York state that is preventing the required level of testing to begin opening the state. The logistical problems that he mentions plagues every state in the US. There was no emotion in his speech, just facts. None of that self congradulation like that fcuktard Trump is doing.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Some county officials in Wisconsin are going online to post their objections to the additional time frame for 'Safer At Home' and have written that they will be opening some kinds of businesses, including golf courses. Technically, they're probably correct in their belief that what Gov Evers did is illegal and unconstitutional, but without a vaccine, the only things that will prevent the spread is making sure everything is clean and people are maintaining isolation. Knowing that it's possible to become infected by someone who's not showing symptoms or whose symptoms are mild doesn't make me want to run out to golf or go to the places that may open. While we may have the right to assemble and go to some public places, NOBODY has the right to infect another person through ignorance of their health and with the current state of testing, there's no way to know.
Plenty of ways to make golf 'safe' during these times and quite a few corses are doing so.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
ABC news cites unnamed sources who claim that U.S. intelligence was aware of the virus in Wuhan as early as last November. If true, this is fascinating.

It also makes me wonder how early this virus started to spread.

And, of course, this raises the question why the federal government here was so slow to act.


>>>As far back as late November, U.S. intelligence officials were warning that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population, according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting.

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents. . .

"The timeline of the intel side of this may be further back than we’re discussing," the source said of preliminary reports from Wuhan. "But this was definitely being briefed beginning at the end of November as something the military needed to take a posture on."
Is there really any evidence then that China was purposeful trying to build a bio weapon ? They stopped travel from Chinese to Wuhan a while ago , but allowed Wuhan citizens to travel worldwide .

Is this there Trojan horse to overthrow “nwo?”
China has killed the American middle class already , taking all there factories

No way of knowing the real death toll and it’s probably substantially higher in China .. also it’s been around 2 years ???? It’s probably everywhere
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Is there really any evidence then that China was purposeful trying to build a bio weapon ? They stopped travel from Chinese to Wuhan a while ago , but allowed Wuhan citizens to travel worldwide .
No. There's no evidence at present that China built a bioweapon then released it on their own people first.

Is this there Trojan horse to overthrow “nwo?”
China has killed the American middle class already , taking all there factories
China didn't *take* anything.

American companies moved their factories to Mexico and China because it raised profits for the companies. This was subsidized by the Reagan administration that created tax incentives to do so.

Ignoring the last 4 months, US productivity is up. US GDP is up. The only reason that the middle class is suffering is because wealth distribution within the US has been changing. Blame the people that broke up the unions. Blame the tax structures that disincentive investment and pay (again, starting with Reagan).

Trump gave another huge tax break to companies a year or so back. Airlines got as much cash from that as they are saying they need now. Did they pay it to their workers? No. Did they spend it on capacity? No. Did they put it in savings? No. Did they pay down their debts? No.

What did they do? They spent it all on a stock buyback to give more money to their largest stockholders. The same thing they all did last time we gave them a similar tax break.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
No. There's no evidence at present that China built a bioweapon then released it on their own people first.


China didn't *take* anything.

American companies moved their factories to Mexico and China because it raised profits for the companies. This was subsidized by the Reagan administration that created tax incentives to do so.

Ignoring the last 4 months, US productivity is up. US GDP is up. The only reason that the middle class is suffering is because wealth distribution within the US has been changing. Blame the people that broke up the unions. Blame the tax structures that disincentive investment and pay (again, starting with Reagan).

Trump gave another huge tax break to companies a year or so back. Airlines got as much cash from that as they are saying they need now. Did they pay it to their workers? No. Did they spend it on capacity? No. Did they put it in savings? No. Did they pay down their debts? No.

What did they do? They spent it all on a stock buyback to give more money to their largest stockholders. The same thing they all did last time we gave them a similar tax break.
Middle class has been defunct since 2000 or so , the rich take all the money everyone else gets nothing . Corporations killed unions too , but yeah your right , workers are cattle or dogs to there employers but investors are feared and treated like King .. so workers are basically slaves in the most part .
Since no unions exist to fight for wages there like sheep being led to a pack of lions tiger slaughter.
There’s 100million out of the labor force prior to corona virus now it’s something like 130m

That’s 4-6x the Great Depression and I don’t see it getting any better .

That’s what today’s fake news considers the greatest economy ever for America but it’s further from the truth the 1920s were.

100 mil jobless is not a full employed economy sorry news lied to everyone . You been had , tiger gotcha toes haha
Is China not truly to Blame but America’s corporate masters ? And banks

Corona virus is a real tragic loss of life but a Great Depression will kill way more .
What we’re looking at is the collapse of an empire , if this is not fixed soon .

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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I just saw a headline from the NY Times saying there's a sudden surge in CV patients having kidney failure and they're running out of dialysis machines. So we have the ventilators but now the new big deal is kidney failure.

What is going on with this? I'm hearing all kinds of whacky shit. It's like they were blindsided by this kidney thing, which leads me to believe it is crucial info that was withheld or covered up.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Middle class has been defunct since 2000 or so , the rich take all the money everyone else gets nothing . Corporations killed unions too , but yeah your right , workers are cattle or dogs to there employers but investors are feared and treated like King .. so workers are basically slaves in the most part .
The corporations didn't do it without help from government. "Right to work" states, anti-union laws, a lack of pro-union laws, not tying the minimum wage to inflation, the list goes on... and that's to say nothing about the government's role in job loss.

There's more money being made, per person, in the US than there was. Our per-capita GDP has pretty steadily risen.
US_GDP_per_capita_vs_median_household_income.png


But that wealth has been more an more unevenly distributed.
cbpp income inequality 2011.png


Median earnings have been dropping for a long time, and median earnings haven't exactly been rising.
mean median annual earnings for men.png


Is China not truly to Blame but America’s corporate masters ? And banks
And the government, specifically GOP near-and-dear policies like deregulation, removing taxes for corporations, corporate welfare, removing government support of unions, removing government protections for workers, and a "corporations are people" position.
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Samurai
The corporations didn't do it without help from government. "Right to work" states, anti-union laws, a lack of pro-union laws, not tying the minimum wage to inflation, the list goes on... and that's to say nothing about the government's role in job loss.

There's more money being made, per person, in the US than there was. Our per-capita GDP has pretty steadily risen.
View attachment 35504

But that wealth has been more an more unevenly distributed.
View attachment 35505

Median earnings have been dropping for a long time, and median earnings haven't exactly been rising.
View attachment 35506

And the government, specifically GOP near-and-dear policies like deregulation, removing taxes for corporations, corporate welfare, removing government support of unions, removing government protections for workers, and a "corporations are people" position.
+1 yeah that’s basically what I’ve found when researching this topic . Welcome to Mid evil Europe , I guess atleast we don’t gotta pic up cow poop for elites .

If you look up founding fathers quotes on banks you will see why Andrew Jackson tried so hard to fight the banks ....
he won the battle , lost the war they are like the reason this system is so tyrannical..

And Coronavirus is not dangerous enough to overthrow this satanic tyrannical , corporate + bank powers.
I’d say we got a higher chance of a invasion ffrom space aliens , or star people then we do at ever being free again z
...
I’d rather live under this currupt system then
Korea or China which are far far worse .//
USA is hardly the roar

Hopefully a remedy for corona virus is found and we do not have too many deaths !!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I just saw a headline from the NY Times saying there's a sudden surge in CV patients having kidney failure and they're running out of dialysis machines. So we have the ventilators but now the new big deal is kidney failure.

What is going on with this? I'm hearing all kinds of whacky shit. It's like they were blindsided by this kidney thing, which leads me to believe it is crucial info that was withheld or covered up.
This is nothing new. I warned about this early in this thread that there was significant renal and hepatic injury. The unexpected problems have been the incidence of cardiac injury, about 33% of hospital cases. This is likely responsible for the out of hospital arrests.

The really new and unexpected problems are neurological. There is an alarming incidence of occlusive stroke, keeping the interventional neuroradiologists busy. Also hemorrhagic encephalopathy. My ND colleagues have seen speech problems also.

This is a very bad infection.

More bad news is that countries easing up on restriction are seeing another spike of cases. These now reported from Germany, Spain, Japan is in crisis now with its hospitals overwhelmed, and now South Korea which fought this back so well earlier.

We have a total nut job in the white house who will bring this country is knees in a few weeks if he is not removed, Removing Trump is crucial. I will state for the record he is unstable and mentally ill.

The UK is now fighting this like war, and getting into that 'Battle if Britain Spirit. This has to be fought hard, with all resources. It is full speed ahead for a vaccine. It is realized the world can not wait two years. In addition a group has been put together modeled on the Bletchely Group, that decoded the Nazi Enigma ciphers, Their charge is to decode this virus to know the codes by which it brings about these awful effects. This is to enable therapies to be more quickly developed to interfere with its core functions.

I do fear that at least at this moment Britain is once again "standing alone" while America is idled, but by our own lunatic.
 
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