GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Good to hear that. 40+ miles away is nothing.

It seems like more & more people are getting vaccinated. Even in Texas ;).

And there is more & more good news about how very effective these vaccines are. Most of the reports I've seen are about the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, but I've heard nothing to suggest that the J&J or AstraZeneca vaccines are really any less effective. That AZ vaccine is not yet available in the USA, but it has been widely used elsewhere.

At this point, we know that nearly all people vaccinated with either the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccines do not get infected at all for at least 4 months after their vaccinations. This includes symptom-less infections that we knew people got before vaccinations were available. As time passes, we'll know more about how long these vaccines are effective. I believe similar data about the AZ vaccine is available in the UK, but I'm not familiar with it.
I have an appointment to get my first shot of the AZ vaccine...but it's May 5th.

Meanwhile, over the past six weeks, the running average of new cases in Canada has doubled, from 3000/day to 6000/day. And, the B117 and P1 variants are rapidly displacing the original virus. The daily average of new cases in Nova Scotia has also doubled - fortunately that's from just 2 to 4. I believe the Atlantic provinces' policy of compulsory 2-week self-isolation for people entering from outside the region has really been the big difference. The overwhelming majority of cases have been people who have travelled outside the province, or close contacts of travelers, resulting in practically no community spread. The rising numbers of new variant cases across the country are concerning though. It just increases the possibility of numbers getting out of hand here, as well.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Vaccinations are moving along , not fast enough but they are getting there.https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html

In our state, Beginning the following Monday, April 5, all individuals age 18 and older will be eligible to receive the vaccine. The real question will the young actually do it.
They will. There are TONS of young folks, but over 18, that are getting other vaccines against the wishes of their parents. I don't think this will be any different.

Every age group has morons, but this generation of kids has so much information that they don't really have an excuse to be un-informed.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Good to hear that. 40+ miles away is nothing.

It seems like more & more people are getting vaccinated. Even in Texas ;).

And there is more & more good news about how very effective these vaccines are. Most of the reports I've seen are about the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, but I've heard nothing to suggest that the J&J or AstraZeneca vaccines are really any less effective. That AZ vaccine is not yet available in the USA, but it has been widely used elsewhere.

At this point, we know that nearly all people vaccinated with either the Pfizer or the Moderna vaccines do not get infected at all for at least 4 months after their vaccinations. This includes symptom-less infections that we knew people got before vaccinations were available. As time passes, we'll know more about how long these vaccines are effective. I believe similar data about the AZ vaccine is available in the UK, but I'm not familiar with it.
It seems that the Pfizer is what almost everyone I've known has gotten. My boss got the JJ vaccine, but he's the only one I know that has. Everyone else is Pfizer, but only a couple had issues after the second dose.

Lots of crap floating around here about people testing positive after getting vaccinated. I have to keep telling people that unless they develop symptoms and get REALLY sick, that information isn't all that relevant. Something more has to be there other than a simple "people that got the vaccine are testing positive" then nothing else of substance in these "articles".

Our "news" needs a massive overhaul. Even if they aren't blatantly trying to tell people not to get the vaccine (why is anyone's guess) they are still putting fear into people that are already nervous about this stuff.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Lots of crap floating around here about people testing positive after getting vaccinated. I have to keep telling people that unless they develop symptoms and get REALLY sick, that information isn't all that relevant. Something more has to be there other than a simple "people that got the vaccine are testing positive" then nothing else of substance in these "articles".
To paraphrase what I said earlier in post #5017:

A clinical study was done among the people who received either the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines. These were mainly the doctors, nurses, EMTs, as well as other hospital staff, who were vaccinated as early as December 2020. These volunteers had to do their own nasal swab tests each week and FedEx their samples to one central lab that performed all the PCR tests for the SARS-CoV-2 virus. This study asked the question 'Who got infected with or without symptoms?'. The previous clinical trials of these vaccines only asked 'Who developed disease symptoms?'.
  • Among 2,479 fully vaccinated (2 doses) people, just 3 had confirmed infections.
  • Among 477 people who had received dose 1 (but had not yet received dose 2), 8 infections were reported.
  • By comparison, 161 infections were seen among 994 people who were not vaccinated (they did the same weekly nasal swabs).
  • No deaths were reported.
From this study, the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines reduced the risk of infection by 80% after one shot. Protection from infection increased to 90% following the second dose.

These findings are consistent with clinical trial results and studies showing strong efficacy in Israel and the United Kingdom, and in preliminary results of ongoing studies of health-care workers in Texas and Southern California.

In short, all those so-called 'news reports' of people getting sick or testing positive after they were vaccinated are not true. They are result of poor reporting, bad news editing, or deliberate falsehoods.
Our "news" needs a massive overhaul. Even if they aren't blatantly trying to tell people not to get the vaccine (why is anyone's guess) they are still putting fear into people that are already nervous about this stuff.
Agreed. But it's not the few remaining real newspapers and web sites that are the problem. It's those other poorly edited or unedited sources of news (such as FB, Twitter, etc.) that can't be bothered enough to check out stories to distinguish fact from fiction. Or worse, they are deliberately false (such as Faux News and all it's imitators).
 
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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Agreed. But it's not the few remaining real newspapers and web sites that are the problem. It's those other poorly edited or unedited sources of news (such as FB, Twitter, etc.) that can't be bothered enough to check out stories to distinguish fact from fiction. Or worse, they are deliberately false (such as Faux News and all it's imitators).
Well, to be fair, a lot of local news just puts together very short "articles" for clicks online. The one I'm referring to is this one:

https://www.ktsa.com/two-fully-vaccinated-people-test-positive-for-covid-19-in-san-antonio/

This is the entire thing:

SAN ANTONIO (KTSA News) – At least two people in San Antonio have tested positive for COVID-19 after being fully vaccinated. Rita Espinoza with San Antonio Metro Health says both cases occurred about a month after the individuals received the second dose.

“Both situations had household contacts that had confirmed cases of
COVID,” said Espinoza. “There was not a severe illness in either case.”

It’s not known which vaccine the individuals had received. Research shows that the Pfizer vaccine is 95 percent effective at preventing symptomatic COVID infection after two doses and the Moderna vaccine has a 94.1 percent efficacy rate.

“The vaccination programs are to prevent severe illness, death and hospitalizations,” said Espinoza. “It’s not necessarily going to prevent all cases of COVID, but it’s going to hopefully prevent severe cases and not tax our hospital systems.”

According to Bridge Michigan, out of 1.8 million completed vaccinations in the Great Lakes State, 246 have been infected with coronavirus, 3 have died and 11 were hospitalized. That’s according to data from the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services.

A spokesperson for MDHHS told Bridge Michigan that of the three people who died, two passed away within three weeks of completing their vaccine. She noted the possibility that some of the people in so-called breakthrough cases may have been infected shortly before they received their shots, but they didn’t test positive until after vaccinations.

Health officials continue urging people to wear masks, sanitize and observe social distancing even after being vaccinated.
The content of the article is fine, but the title is misleading. It really should have read something like "Two fully vaccinated people test positive for covid 19 in san antonio and both are fine and never developed severe illness." Less scary, less traffic.

My brother in law sent it to me since he's nervous about getting it, as I said in an earlier post.

I told him stuff like that is just fluff they have to write to get traffic to the site. It's a mild example of an article titled "Recently vaccinated woman dies suddenly" when the content of the article reveals that she had a tree fall on her while she was sleeping. The vaccine fact wasn't relevant other than to get clicks. This is a made up example, but it gets the point across.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Samurai
Got the first shot (Moderna) yesterday, kept the arm moving so no issues 24 hrs later. Logistics of getting the shot are bit screwed up here in SE Pa
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
Lots of crap floating around here about people testing positive after getting vaccinated. I have to keep telling people that unless they develop symptoms and get REALLY sick, that information isn't all that relevant. Something more has to be there other than a simple "people that got the vaccine are testing positive" then nothing else of substance in these "articles".
To some extent, I can understand why news outlets run these stories. But, yeah, the headlines are sensationalized. The vaccines are not 100% effective, but your odds of testing positive if you don't get the jab are many times higher than if you do get the jab.

To my mind, the "logic" of not getting a jab is similar to concluding "Some people who jump out of airplanes with a parachute die, so I'll jump without a parachute." (I don't think it will be possible for the vast majority of the anti-vaxers to avoid the virus completely, so they'll have to chose if they want the virus with or without being vaccinated)

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
To some extent, I can understand why news outlets run these stories. But, yeah, the headlines are sensationalized.
I liked news sources better before the internet. It is actually difficult now to find true reporting, as opposed to opinion pieces masquerading as news articles. You would think there would be enough of a business for unbiased reporting that there would be at least one source we could depend on for integrity. Who knows? Integrity might spread like a virus.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
I liked news sources better before the internet. It is actually difficult now to find true reporting, as opposed to opinion pieces masquerading as news articles. You would think there would be enough of a business for unbiased reporting that there would be at least one source we could depend on for integrity. Who knows? Integrity might spread like a virus.
The other part of the problem is now it's "be first" instead of "be accurate". You have tons of news outlets, legit and not so much, combing the internet for anything that can be a headline. Any tweet, fb post or whatever can be used to write an article. Fact checking needs to be bigger with people. I don't understand why anyone would just blindly believe anything they read on the internet (source depending) and just believe it without question.

People need better bullshit detectors.
 
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cpp

cpp

Audioholic Field Marshall
The vaccine will not stop a person from getting covid, it only helps to hopefully prevent a major illness from taking place, like hospital stay, ventilator requirements. As a stage 4 head & neck cancer survivor post radiation one year next month, the vaccine was a no brainier.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
The vaccine will not stop a person from getting covid, it only helps to hopefully prevent a major illness from taking place, like hospital stay, ventilator requirements.
Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. The vaccine does actually prevent COVID in many people:

>>>Among these participants, 18,198 received the vaccine and 18,325 received saline placebo. The vaccine was 95 percent effective in preventing COVID-19 disease among these clinical trial participants with 8 COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group and 162 COVID-19 cases in the placebo group. Of these 170 COVID-19 cases, 1 in the vaccine group and 3 in the placebo group were classified as severe.<<<

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions


This isn't just semantics about what constitutes "COVID." The vaccines actually prevent infections in many cases:

>>>Vaccination with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine reduces infections by 90%, while a single dose confers 80% protection, shows a study led by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that followed essential workers through the worst months of the pandemic.

The study is one of a small number that employ regular testing to measure vaccines’ impact on infection rates rather than counting cases of symptomatic disease, hospital admission, or death.<<<



But, I agree 100% that getting the vaccine is a no brainer!
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
As a stage 4 head & neck cancer survivor post radiation one year next month, the vaccine was a no brainier.
Wow! You have my sympathy and my admiration. You've survived a very tough disease and a very rough therapy. I hope your disease stays in remission.
The vaccine will not stop a person from getting covid, it only helps to hopefully prevent a major illness from taking place, like hospital stay, ventilator requirements.
I have to disagree, this is incorrect. (I just saw Mr._Clark saying something similar.) The vaccines actually do prevent infection by the virus.

Previously, those two large clinical trials from last fall vaccinated very large numbers of people, but after vaccination, they followed up by asking if people developed Covid-19 disease, with all it's various symptoms. The trials did not ask if people developed symptom-free infections. When the trials began, there was simply not enough polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing available to test everyone on the trial. Only if someone became sick, and Covid-19 was suspected, were they tested by PCR to confirm the disease.

As a result, the trials could only conclude whether vaccination could prevent Covid-19 symptoms. In science and medicine, you can't make conclusions without data to support them. The popular press and the public, misinterpreted this. The vaccine does indeed prevent infections, but the early clinical trials could not prove that.

Since then, there have been more studies that did address the questions about symptom-free infections. The results clearly show that the vaccines do prevent virus infections. This includes Covid-19 disease (with or without hospitalization or death) as well as symptom-free infections.

In nature, nothing is 100%. There are always a few people who get infected even though they were vaccinated. But the odds of getting infected after vaccination are much lower than without vaccination.

Here's the data from that New England Journal of Medicine link that Mr._Clark provided. It clearly shows how highly effective the vaccines are. To compare these results with those of many earlier vaccines against viral diseases like polio or measles, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are out-of-the-park grand-slam home runs. I'll take those odds any day.
1617895568459.png
 
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M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
Wow! You have my sympathy and my admiration. You've survived a very tough disease and a very rough therapy. I hope your disease stays in remission.
I have to disagree, this is incorrect. (I just saw Mr._Clark saying something similar.) The vaccines actually do prevent infection by the virus.

Previously, those two large clinical trials from last fall vaccinated very large numbers of people, but after vaccination, they followed up by asking if people developed Covid-19 disease, with all it's various symptoms. The trials did not ask if people developed symptom-free infections. When the trials began, there was simply not enough polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing available to test everyone on the trial. Only if someone became sick, and Covid-19 was suspected, were they tested by PCR to confirm the disease.

As a result, the trials could only conclude whether vaccination could prevent Covid-19 symptoms. In science and medicine, you can't make conclusions without data to support them. The popular press and the public, misinterpreted this. The vaccine does indeed prevent infections, but the early clinical trials could not prove that.

Since then, there have been more studies that did address the questions about symptom-free infections. The results clearly show that the vaccines do prevent virus infections. This includes Covid-19 disease (with or without hospitalization or death) as well as symptom-free infections.

In nature, nothing is 100%. There are always a few people who get infected even though they were vaccinated. But the odds of getting infected after vaccination are much lower than without vaccination.

Here's the data from that New England Journal of Medicine link that Mr._Clark provided. It clearly shows how highly effective the vaccines are. To compare these results with those of many earlier vaccines against viral diseases like polio or measles, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are out-of-the-park grand-slam home runs. I'll take those odds any day.
It seems to me that some of the messaging in connection with the J&J vaccine is not "wrong" but it might be contributing to the notion that vaccines don't stop infections.

Here's an example:

>>>While J&J’s vaccine has 66.3% effectiveness overall and 74.4% effectiveness in the United States, it has “100% efficacy against hospitalization and death from the virus,” said Dr. Irons. “That's really what we have to focus on.”

She noted that White House Chief Medical Adviser Anthony Fauci, MD, among other top experts are “saying is that it’s really important to focus on the severe end of the spectrum, preventing hospitalization and death.”

“No hospitalizations occurred in the vaccine group 28 days or more after vaccination as compared to 16 in the placebo group,” said Dr. Fryhofer. “There were also no COVID-associated deaths among those who were vaccinated. That’s pretty powerful.”<<<




Having said that, assuming the source is not excessively biased, the J&J vaccine does seem to stop infection in many cases:

>>>In a study by Janssen, the pharmaceutical division of Johnson & Johnson, the Ad26.COV2.S vaccine proved to be 74% effective against asymptomatic disease within 71 days compared to a placebo shot.<<<

 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Field Marshall
Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. The vaccine does actually prevent COVID in many people:

>>>Among these participants, 18,198 received the vaccine and 18,325 received saline placebo. The vaccine was 95 percent effective in preventing COVID-19 disease among these clinical trial participants with 8 COVID-19 cases in the vaccine group and 162 COVID-19 cases in the placebo group. Of these 170 COVID-19 cases, 1 in the vaccine group and 3 in the placebo group were classified as severe.<<<

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions


This isn't just semantics about what constitutes "COVID." The vaccines actually prevent infections in many cases:

>>>Vaccination with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine reduces infections by 90%, while a single dose confers 80% protection, shows a study led by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that followed essential workers through the worst months of the pandemic.

The study is one of a small number that employ regular testing to measure vaccines’ impact on infection rates rather than counting cases of symptomatic disease, hospital admission, or death.<<<



But, I agree 100% that getting the vaccine is a no brainer!
Wow! You have my sympathy and my admiration. You've survived a very tough disease and a very rough therapy. I hope your disease stays in remission.
I have to disagree, this is incorrect. (I just saw Mr._Clark saying something similar.) The vaccines actually do prevent infection by the virus.

Previously, those two large clinical trials from last fall vaccinated very large numbers of people, but after vaccination, they followed up by asking if people developed Covid-19 disease, with all it's various symptoms. The trials did not ask if people developed symptom-free infections. When the trials began, there was simply not enough polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing available to test everyone on the trial. Only if someone became sick, and Covid-19 was suspected, were they tested by PCR to confirm the disease.

As a result, the trials could only conclude whether vaccination could prevent Covid-19 symptoms. In science and medicine, you can't make conclusions without data to support them. The popular press and the public, misinterpreted this. The vaccine does indeed prevent infections, but the early clinical trials could not prove that.

Since then, there have been more studies that did address the questions about symptom-free infections. The results clearly show that the vaccines do prevent virus infections. This includes Covid-19 disease (with or without hospitalization or death) as well as symptom-free infections.

In nature, nothing is 100%. There are always a few people who get infected even though they were vaccinated. But the odds of getting infected after vaccination are much lower than without vaccination.

Here's the data from that New England Journal of Medicine link that Mr._Clark provided. It clearly shows how highly effective the vaccines are. To compare these results with those of many earlier vaccines against viral diseases like polio or measles, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are out-of-the-park grand-slam home runs. I'll take those odds any day.
View attachment 46407
Thank you. So far so good. I see my both my head & neck cancer surgeon and my Oncologist at Mayo every 3 months.
Wow! You have my sympathy and my admiration. You've survived a very tough disease and a very rough therapy. I hope your disease stays in remission.
I have to disagree, this is incorrect. (I just saw Mr._Clark saying something similar.) The vaccines actually do prevent infection by the virus.

Previously, those two large clinical trials from last fall vaccinated very large numbers of people, but after vaccination, they followed up by asking if people developed Covid-19 disease, with all it's various symptoms. The trials did not ask if people developed symptom-free infections. When the trials began, there was simply not enough polymerase chain reaction (PCR) testing available to test everyone on the trial. Only if someone became sick, and Covid-19 was suspected, were they tested by PCR to confirm the disease.

As a result, the trials could only conclude whether vaccination could prevent Covid-19 symptoms. In science and medicine, you can't make conclusions without data to support them. The popular press and the public, misinterpreted this. The vaccine does indeed prevent infections, but the early clinical trials could not prove that.

Since then, there have been more studies that did address the questions about symptom-free infections. The results clearly show that the vaccines do prevent virus infections. This includes Covid-19 disease (with or without hospitalization or death) as well as symptom-free infections.

In nature, nothing is 100%. There are always a few people who get infected even though they were vaccinated. But the odds of getting infected after vaccination are much lower than without vaccination.

Here's the data from that New England Journal of Medicine link that Mr._Clark provided. It clearly shows how highly effective the vaccines are. To compare these results with those of many earlier vaccines against viral diseases like polio or measles, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are out-of-the-park grand-slam home runs. I'll take those odds any day.
View attachment 46407
To paraphrase what I said earlier in post #5017:

A clinical study was done among the people who received either the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines. These were mainly the doctors, nurses, EMTs, as well as other hospital staff, who were vaccinated as early as December 2020. These volunteers had to do their own nasal swab tests each week and FedEx their samples to one central lab that performed all the PCR tests for the SARS-CoV-2 virus. This study asked the question 'Who got infected with or without symptoms?'. The previous clinical trials of these vaccines only asked 'Who developed disease symptoms?'.
  • Among 2,479 fully vaccinated (2 doses) people, just 3 had confirmed infections.
  • Among 477 people who had received dose 1 (but had not yet received dose 2), 8 infections were reported.
  • By comparison, 161 infections were seen among 994 people who were not vaccinated (they did the same weekly nasal swabs).
  • No deaths were reported.
From this study, the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccines reduced the risk of infection by 80% after one shot. Protection from infection increased to 90% following the second dose.

These findings are consistent with clinical trial results and studies showing strong efficacy in Israel and the United Kingdom, and in preliminary results of ongoing studies of health-care workers in Texas and Southern California.

In short, all those so-called 'news reports' of people getting sick or testing positive after they were vaccinated are not true. They are result of poor reporting, bad news editing, or deliberate falsehoods.
Agreed. But it's not the few remaining real newspapers and web sites that are the problem. It's those other poorly edited or unedited sources of news (such as FB, Twitter, etc.) that can't be bothered enough to check out stories to distinguish fact from fiction. Or worse, they are deliberately false (such as Faux News and all it's imitators).
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well I'm just going to go by what the CDC notes on their site, and what my doctors at Mayo in Jacksonville are telling me at this time. Going to play it safe, why risk it. .

"
COVID-19 vaccines will help protect you from getting sick or severely ill with COVID-19

  • Large-scale clinical trials found that COVID-19 vaccination prevented most people from getting COVID-19.
  • All COVID-19 vaccines available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19.
  • It typically takes about two weeks for the body to build protection after vaccination. That means it is possible you could still get COVID-19 soon after vaccination. This is because your body has not had enough time to build full protection.
  • Some people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick because the vaccines are not 100% effective. When this happens, vaccination might help keep you from getting seriously ill, based on data from clinical studies. "
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Field Marshall
In Sweden, going forward, the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine will only be offered to those over 65 while those younger may have two doses of a different vaccine if they got the AstraZeneca vaccine first. All of this is in a flux, so to speak.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I have to wonder about what the WHO is trying to accomplish with its rhetoric about vaccine distribution. A guilt trip?


The constant bitching about vaccinations proceeding more quickly in rich countries than poor countries is so totally predictable; I can't believe the complaining I'm hearing about it. Without rich countries there wouldn't be vaccines, and it's just a reality of the current world order that nations exist, nationalism exists, borders exist, and country leaders feel they have a responsibility to their citizens. There is no way that any country is going to decide to vaccinate poorer countries, which in total have a larger population than rich countries, before their own citizens, in some equitable percentage of the total world population.

Even if nations and their leaders got far more altruistic than is reality, the math doesn't work. According to this website:


About 500 million doses have been administered as I type this, including about 157 million in China. There are 7.9 billion people on the planet. Most concerning, manufacturing these vaccines are not like making plastic toys, and there's more proof of that every week. This week J&J has severely cut back distribution of their highly sought after vaccine due to manufacturing problems, and in the process that's going to reduce the amount of AZ vaccine manufactured, because apparently they were made in the same contract facility and some ingredients got mixed up (I know I'm over-simplifying). And two of three US vaccines have refrigeration requirements that probably are unacceptable in most developing countries. I guess miracles never happen quickly enough.
 

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