Climate Change?

[Irvrobinson]

Are the "97% of scientists" from the same pollsters that said Hillary was going to win by a landslide?

Ah, your true colors appear. WTF does this statement have to do with global warming? And how are pollsters and climatologists related? ShadyJ was right...

 

[Swerd]

If you're going to tell me I'm wrong, at least show where I made errors.

In the past, too often to keep count. But I'll make an effort to begin.

What about any process that uses yeast? Brewing and baking have to contribute, too.

As a start, let's take this recent post.

To answer your question, you would have to show how much CO2 is produced world wide by baking and brewing. And you would then have to compare that to the total CO2 produced world wide from all sources. What percent of total CO2 production does baking and brewing produce? Large or small? While you're at it, it might be useful to compare the CO2 produced by commercial uses of yeast to estimates of CO2 produced by yeast in the wild. There should be some existing evidence to address these questions.

If its large, we can take on the baking & brewing industries. Personally, I'd be surprised if this were true. But why guess when data might provide clear answers?

Edit: I say all this while understanding that you might have brought up yeast as a possible cause of global warming for political reasons, or for humor.

If you meant it for political reasons, this was a puny effort to distract the discussion of global warming to something trivial. This isn't the first time that's been attempted.

If you meant to add some humor to an otherwise gloomy topic, it wasn't funny enough for me to get it as a joke.

 

[Dan]

I have little science to add although I have been aware of the subject since the seventies when I first became aware of it while in high school (but learned it outside of high school in a research lab). I did however just get back from China having spent four days in Taiyuan, a small city of four million an hours flight west of Beijing in north central China (no relation to the island in the south). It is the heart of coal mining and steel production there. It is very polluted, the air was obviously horrible to my eyes, nose and lungs.

China has little oil or natural gas preserves hence most of its energy comes from coal both mined in China and imported from North Korea which is NKs main export. While I was there the Chinese Prime Minister went to St. Petersberg to meet with Putin about opening a second large natural gas pipeline from the arctic to China. Russia has abundant natural gas reserves. While the Chinese were very happy as they at least pay lip service to cleaning up their air, the headlines in the western press viewed this as a new era of Russo-Chinese cooperation and viewed it as a grave threat. As long as we view such actions with such suspicion it will be impossible to get anything accomplished on an international scale. The days of bicycle hordes in China is long over. There are roads everywhere, all new and in excellent shape and tons of cars all new. Agriculture is dying there, the farmers all move to the cities to get manufacturing jobs.

 

[KEW]

I have little science to add although I have been aware of the subject since the seventies when I first became aware of it while in high school (but learned it outside of high school in a research lab). I did however just get back from China having spent four days in Taiyuan, a small city of four million an hours flight west of Beijing in north central China (no relation to the island in the south). It is the heart of coal mining and steel production there. It is very polluted, the air was obviously horrible to my eyes, nose and lungs.

China has little oil or natural gas preserves hence most of its energy comes from coal both mined in China and imported from North Korea which is NKs main export. While I was there the Chinese Prime Minister went to St. Petersberg to meet with Putin about opening a second large natural gas pipeline from the arctic to China. Russia has abundant natural gas reserves. While the Chinese were very happy as they at least pay lip service to cleaning up their air, the headlines in the western press viewed this as a new era of Russo-Chinese cooperation and viewed it as a grave threat. As long as we view such actions with such suspicion it will be impossible to get anything accomplished on an international scale. The days of bicycle hordes in China is long over. There are roads everywhere, all new and in excellent shape and tons of cars all new. Agriculture is dying there, the farmers all move to the cities to get manufacturing jobs.

Summer is coming...

 

[panteragstk]

I have little science to add although I have been aware of the subject since the seventies when I first became aware of it while in high school (but learned it outside of high school in a research lab). I did however just get back from China having spent four days in Taiyuan, a small city of four million an hours flight west of Beijing in north central China (no relation to the island in the south). It is the heart of coal mining and steel production there. It is very polluted, the air was obviously horrible to my eyes, nose and lungs.

China has little oil or natural gas preserves hence most of its energy comes from coal both mined in China and imported from North Korea which is NKs main export. While I was there the Chinese Prime Minister went to St. Petersberg to meet with Putin about opening a second large natural gas pipeline from the arctic to China. Russia has abundant natural gas reserves. While the Chinese were very happy as they at least pay lip service to cleaning up their air, the headlines in the western press viewed this as a new era of Russo-Chinese cooperation and viewed it as a grave threat. As long as we view such actions with such suspicion it will be impossible to get anything accomplished on an international scale. The days of bicycle hordes in China is long over. There are roads everywhere, all new and in excellent shape and tons of cars all new. Agriculture is dying there, the farmers all move to the cities to get manufacturing jobs.

Too bad nobody wants to invest in Solar Roadways. Yes, replacing all of our roads would be insanely expensive and nobody would vote for it, but at least it's an option. They'd have to get their tech up to par before it'd be considered. Maybe someday.

Then Tesla has their Solar Roof project.

Assuming these ideas become viable (and cheap enough) that could potentially put a large dent in coal usage. The roads charging EVs is an added benefit.

 

[lovinthehd]

Summer is coming...

Didn't it already start this last weekend?

You need graphics if you're playing off Winter is coming from GOT....some gothic font or something

 

[Swerd]

Didn't it already start this last weekend?

You need graphics if you're playing off Winter is coming from GOT....some gothic font or something

Summer is coming

 

[lovinthehd]

 

[Ponzio]

U guys are on a roll!

 

[Dan]

This is one part of global warming no one wants to see:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-freezer-relief-as-europe-braces-for-heatwave

 

[highfigh]

In the past, too often to keep count. But I'll make an effort to begin.
As a start, let's take this recent post.

To answer your question, you would have to show how much CO2 is produced world wide by baking and brewing. And you would then have to compare that to the total CO2 produced world wide from all sources. What percent of total CO2 production does baking and brewing produce? Large or small? While you're at it, it might be useful to compare the CO2 produced by commercial uses of yeast to estimates of CO2 produced by yeast in the wild. There should be some existing evidence to address these questions.

If its large, we can take on the baking & brewing industries. Personally, I'd be surprised if this were true. But why guess when data might provide clear answers?

Edit: I say all this while understanding that you might have brought up yeast as a possible cause of global warming for political reasons, or for humor.

If you meant it for political reasons, this was a puny effort to distract the discussion of global warming to something trivial. This isn't the first time that's been attempted.

If you meant to add some humor to an otherwise gloomy topic, it wasn't funny enough for me to get it as a joke.

This is one of the more condescending posts I have read. Congratulations.

We're discussing possible sources of CO2, not politics- I could have mentioned Congress itself as a source, but that wouldn't have helped the discussion.

How would it be possible to estimate all of the CO2 from all brewers and bakers? I doubt that would be possible- there are too many unknowns. I only mentioned it because nobody else had.

 

[lovinthehd]

This is one of the more condescending posts I have read. Congratulations.

We're discussing possible sources of CO2, not politics- I could have mentioned Congress itself as a source, but that wouldn't have helped the discussion.

How would it be possible to estimate all of the CO2 from all brewers and bakers? I doubt that would be possible- there are too many unknowns. I only mentioned it because nobody else had.

Didn't look for bakery data but found this for breweries in this document:

"The EPA Mandatory GHG accounting rule applies to facilities from specific industries that directly emit 25,000 metric tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent or more per year. Assuming an average thermal requirement of 1.5 therms per barrel of production and an emission factor of 5.29 kg CO2 emitted per therm, an average brewery would produce roughly 125 barrels of beer per metric ton of CO2 emitted. It is unlikely that craft brewers under approximately 3 million barrels of annual production would be susceptible to this rule based on their size and operations. Naturally this threshold would change if the EPA accounting rule limit changed. "

 

[lovinthehd]

Looking up total beer production in the US, came up with 182.7 million barrels in 2018. So 1,461,600 metric tons of co2. Of the US total in 2018 of 5145.2 million metric tons, that's .00028407059 of our total. Assuming no brewers are doing anything about the emissions. Wonder if there's much for bakers....

 

[Dan]

This is one of the more condescending posts I have read. Congratulations.

We're discussing possible sources of CO2, not politics- I could have mentioned Congress itself as a source, but that wouldn't have helped the discussion.

How would it be possible to estimate all of the CO2 from all brewers and bakers? I doubt that would be possible- there are too many unknowns. I only mentioned it because nobody else had.

I didn't buy the article but here is an abstract I found for bread carbon footprint in less than five minutes from one of the most reputable journals on the planet:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nplants201712

Real information isn't too hard to find if you take a little effort to look for it and don't rely on biased sources with a political ax to grind. That is the whole point of academic freedom and the disturbing part of the denial of science going on currently.

 

[lovinthehd]

After we drink the beer and eat the bread do we fart much CO2?

 

[Swerd]

Didn't look for bakery data but found this for breweries in this document:

"The EPA Mandatory GHG accounting rule applies to facilities from specific industries that directly emit 25,000 metric tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent or more per year. Assuming an average thermal requirement of 1.5 therms per barrel of production and an emission factor of 5.29 kg CO2 emitted per therm, an average brewery would produce roughly 125 barrels of beer per metric ton of CO2 emitted. It is unlikely that craft brewers under approximately 3 million barrels of annual production would be susceptible to this rule based on their size and operations. Naturally this threshold would change if the EPA accounting rule limit changed. "

Interesting. Nice find.

I didn't read the whole article in detail, only skimmed it. But it clearly shows beer producers are thinking about how to manage energy costs. As one of those costs, the article mentioned capture & recovery of CO2 made during fermentation, and other phases of producing beer, instead of venting to the atmosphere. (Begins on page 16.) Many of those process seemed to involve CO2 as a by product of heating or refrigeration, not as a direct product of yeast during fermentation.

I searched for the word yeast, and on page 46, it mentions the efforts of the Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. at recovering and recycling the CO2 produced by yeast during fermentation. The brewery recycles the recovered CO2 back into the plant for various uses after the beer is produced, including sanitizing, moving product, and purging & pressurizing tanks.

This brings the discussion back to the question of governments regulating or taxing the production of CO2. This document, produced by the Brewer's Association, shows brewing companies' the best and latest practices at managing costs. If CO2 production became a cost item similar to energy use, the brewers would respond to that just as they are already trying to manage energy use to keep costs down. This article demonstrates that it makes sense to the brewery industry, and it would make similar sense to other industries as well.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why some politicians (GOP politicians) refuse to consider this approach. Are they being paid by energy producers' lobbies to block such laws?

@highfigh – If this is what you meant when you first mentioned brewing and baking as sources of CO2, then I previously got what you meant all wrong. It could be considered as a good way to proceed.

 

[mtrycrafts]

After we drink the beer and eat the bread do we fart much CO2?

No. But we do methane.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
4. Are the "97% of scientists" from the same pollsters that said Hillary was going to win by a landslide?....

Actually, no. It didn't come from a polling data but a researcher in Australia who reviewed peer papers and conclusions.
And, there was a second review by another person who wanted to replicate the study. His answer was 99.+ consensus.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Summer is coming
View attachment 29966

Wow! Edgar Winter hasn't aged a bit!

 

[markw]