Choosing Speakers for Dedicated Home Theater

[KING DRANZER]

@AcuDefTechGuy @ryanosaur Guys total budget is not $50K. Just wanted to clear that. That $50k is for the Living room setup he went for which consists of KEF Reference Meta(Fronts) + KEF R Meta(Surrounds) 9.8.6 setup. For Home Theater it is more than that. Possibly looking around $75k for speakers and subs combined and also bit of Processor into it. Because if I go with Denon 15ch Processor then that is excluded in the budget. But if I go up to Trinnov or Storm Audio then yes cost of that be factored into the speaker and subwoofer budget.

 

[ryanosaur]

Please. Recommend some good drivers if possible. Yes will look into LaVoce and B&C drivers. As I said getting in Subwoofer drivers is an easy and extremely cost effective task. So yes please recommend any driver you think be better and will consider it.

The LaVoce or B&C drivers in a Devastator are very good options, but they are not really going to give you infrasonic output. Also, Devastators are usually very large cabinets. But if you want very strong output from 30-100Hz, I don't think there is anything out there that can out-slam a Devastator build.

If they will ship overseas, the common pairing is putting 24s from either Stereo Integrity or OneAudio in cabinets to hold down the bottom end of Infrasonic output.

You would need some DSP option along with the Amps. MiniDSP or something else... but that is one route that seems to make a bunch of folk happy.

I'm only really familiar with the stuff here in the US, though. Dunno if anybody else out there is making good 24" Drivers...
On the more bespoke side, there is always Ascendo or Harbottle Audio... but they cost a lot more.

 

[KING DRANZER]

The LaVoce or B&C drivers in a Devastator are very good options, but they are not really going to give you infrasonic output. Also, Devastators are usually very large cabinets. But if you want very strong output from 30-100Hz, I don't think there is anything out there that can out-slam a Devastator build.

If they will ship overseas, the common pairing is putting 24s from either Stereo Integrity or OneAudio in cabinets to hold down the bottom end of Infrasonic output.

You would need some DSP option along with the Amps. MiniDSP or something else... but that is one route that seems to make a bunch of folk happy.

I'm only really familiar with the stuff here in the US, though. Dunno if anybody else out there is making good 24" Drivers...
On the more bespoke side, there is always Ascendo or Harbottle Audio... but they cost a lot more.

Yes plan to use MiniDSP. It seems to be the best.

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes plan to use MiniDSP. It seems to be the best.

This too can be up for conversation... some of them have low sampling rates for example. But getting higher end DSP gets expensive, fast. Mariani, QSC... all get out of hand fast unless you can find something used on Ebay or Reverb.
If you can, stick with the Balanced Flex. That seems to be the best from MiniDSP.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

…looking around $75k for speakers and subs combined and also bit of Processor into it…

Even better.

Only thing is, it’s in India, so we don’t know exactly what’s available to you, other than KEF, which is excellent compared to everything else out there in the world.

So what other brands of speakers and Subs are available in India for damn rich people.

Yeah, I would also just get a Denon 15CH AVR or at most the Marantz AV-10 AVP.

 

[KING DRANZER]

Even better.

Only thing is, it’s in India, so we don’t know exactly what’s available to you, other than KEF, which is excellent compared to everything else out there in the world.

So what other brands of speakers and Subs are available in India for damn rich people.

Yeah, I would also just get a Denon 15CH AVR or at most the Marantz AV-10 AVP.

Most of the stuff is available. But at crazy prices man. Some internet direct brands are not available. But even the ones that are available are priced bit high.

1. KEF
2. Klipsh
3. JBL
4. Polk
5. Martin Logan
6. Paradigm
7. Bowers & Wilkins
8. Revel
9. Dali
10. Definitive Technology
11. SONY
12. Dynaudio
13. SVS
14. Emotiva
15. Wharfdale
16. RBH
17. REL
18. Sonus Fabre
19. Q Acoustics
20. JL Audio
21. Ascendo.
22. Elipson
23. ATC
24. Audiovector
25. ELAC
26. Bang & Olufsen
27.Genelec
28. Aperion
29. Harman Kardon
30. Mission

Few more I think. But seriously the ones not available can be imported if needed.

On AVR and Processor side we got everything. Besides Monoprice. Monoprice is one brand which is not available.

 

[KING DRANZER]

Even better.

Only thing is, it’s in India, so we don’t know exactly what’s available to you, other than KEF, which is excellent compared to everything else out there in the world.

So what other brands of speakers and Subs are available in India for damn rich people.

Yeah, I would also just get a Denon 15CH AVR or at most the Marantz AV-10 AVP.

Yes unless I am needed to go up on channel count which is fine if needed and helps with the experience. I be going with Denon AVR-A1H. Like the Denon sound signature over Marantz.

 

[Movie2099]

Guys please help me with speakers for Dedicated Home Theater. It is a real tough on what to pick for that. I am working a project for my Uncle and he is getting a new home built. And while planning for it I am unable to decide on what speakers to pick for Home Theater.

He is going for $50k KEF Reference(Fronts) + R Meta(Surrounds) 9.8.6 setup for the Living Room. So yeah that makes it real difficult to pick up anything for Home-theater that would actually take it up a notch or two from there.

Issue is that after experiencing KEF home theater and how immersive and enveloping it is. I am unable to decide on what should I pick up to top that. I mean there are options what are better but then they be costing way more too. Don't want that.

I can go KEF THX In-wall lineup and call it a day. But seriously is that it. Will that be the best.

At tops I am thinking the budget per speaker to be $5k(avg) like mains can be more expensive surrounds be less. See I can either do expensive 15ch setup or cut down on price per speaker and go for more channels if that helps. But I cannot do expensive + more channels than 15. Because Trinnov 32ch gonna cost 5x Denon A1H. So yeah that is very expensive. If you guys recommend more than 15ch please weigh in the price of Trinnov.

What I am looking for is speaker that do a better surround like depth handling perfect imaging and dynamics. While sounding as fast and clean if possible. For that big room it need to be able handle high volumes.

Room Size: 25'x30'x10'
Number of Subwoofers: 16

If your Uncle has the spare change to spend on a dedicated home theater, he won't be using you for advice. He will be going to a professional to design and build his home theater.

 

[KING DRANZER]

If your Uncle has the spare change to spend on a dedicated home theater, he won't be using you for advice. He will be going to a professional to design and build his home theater.

Sorry he does not have that kind of money. Like seriously don't know what you are expecting services to cost here. Yes most definitely gonna be cheaper compared to US. But not by much. And with good $20-25K(minimum) taken out of the budget that gonna scale down quickly. And have to compromise on products.

And I am no where close to being pro. But I did do some ht setups dedicated ones too. And actually we did one earlier this year in his previous home which he sold to get the new one.

 

[Movie2099]

Sorry he does not have that kind of money. Like seriously don't know what you are expecting services to cost here. Yes most definitely gonna be cheaper compared to US. But not by much. And with good $20-25K(minimum) taken out of the budget that gonna scale down quickly. And have to compromise on products.

And I am no where close to being pro. But I did do some ht setups dedicated ones too. And actually we did one earlier this year in his previous home which he sold to get the new one.

Where is here?

What you are suggesting is going to cost more than $75k (US dollars). The Trinnov alone is going to set you back over $30k. The amps for whatever speakers he decides to go with will easily be over $5k-$15k(depending on brand). Speakers are all over the place. Lets just put out a hypothetical number of $30k for his 9.6 setup. Then you said he wants 16 subwoofers? So lets put $16k ($1k each) which is on the low end. Are the subwoofers going to be powered externally or internally? If you're going externally, you'll need to budget for Sub amps. Then factor in all the cable to wire the entire room. Have you thought about projector? Screen? That combo combined can add an additional $5k-$30K easily. Furniture? Lighting? Sound panels? Media players? is all that factored into your total budget?

Just seems kind of weird that your Uncle would drop $50k for his KEF living room setup, but then only budget $75K for a true dedicated home theater. There is so much more that goes into a dedicated home theater. If you're bringing up brands such as Trinnov, B&W, Ascendo, KEF, JBL, etc... be prepared to go way over budget.

 

[KING DRANZER]

Where is here?

What you are suggesting is going to cost more than $75k (US dollars). The Trinnov alone is going to set you back over $30k. The amps for whatever speakers he decides to go with will easily be over $5k-$15k(depending on brand). Speakers are all over the place. Lets just put out a hypothetical number of $30k for his 9.6 setup. Then you said he wants 16 subwoofers? So lets put $16k ($1k each) which is on the low end. Are the subwoofers going to be powered externally or internally? If you're going externally, you'll need to budget for Sub amps. Then factor in all the cable to wire the entire room. Have you thought about projector? Screen? That combo combined can add an additional $5k-$30K easily. Furniture? Lighting? Sound panels? Media players? is all that factored into your total budget?

Just seems kind of weird that your Uncle would drop $50k for his KEF living room setup, but then only budget $75K for a true dedicated home theater. There is so much more that goes into a dedicated home theater. If you're bringing up brands such as Trinnov, B&W, Ascendo, KEF, JBL, etc... be prepared to go way over budget.

Not trying to go for Trinnov unless it is absolutely necessary in which case I expect the Speakers being suggested to cost less and balance the expenditure. Trying to keep the channel count down to 15ch so that we can use Denon AVR-A1H and be done with it.

India. I mentioned it before. Probably you missed it. But yeah definitely not trying to spend crazy. $75K is what I want to keep the Total around for Speaker setup.

 

[Movie2099]

Not trying to go for Trinnov unless it is absolutely necessary in which case I expect the Speakers being suggested to cost less and balance the expenditure. Trying to keep the channel count down to 15ch so that we can use Denon AVR-A1H and be done with it.

India. I mentioned it before. Probably you missed it. But yeah definitely not trying to spend crazy. $75K is what I want to keep the Total around for Speaker setup.

A Trinnov is not absolutely necessary. In your scenario that is. I would stick with the Denon AVR. You don't want to spend half your budget on a processor. Your best bet would be to spend the most on the front 3 LCR, then save the money on the sides and surrounds. You don't need 16 subwoofers. Spend the money on 2 really nice subwoofers.

What size screen does he want? have you factored in projector?

 

[KING DRANZER]

A Trinnov is not absolutely necessary. In your scenario that is. I would stick with the Denon AVR. You don't want to spend half your budget on a processor. Your best bet would be to spend the most on the front 3 LCR, then save the money on the sides and surrounds. You don't need 16 subwoofers. Spend the money on 2 really nice subwoofers.

What size screen does he want? have you factored in projector?

Yes absolutely that is what I am trying to do. I am trying to find speakers which can be as enveloping and immersive as KEF Reference and be bit more dynamic. Like yes even if it is not as detailed and clear(not saying that they need to sound a lot worse though) as KEF Reference I want it to have other characteristics like having depth and being dimensional and being more Dynamic. Yes don't plan to go for Trinnov unless I am unable to find a speaker that can provide similar enveloping experience without having crazy number of channels. In which case I am fine going for it but then expect Speakers to not cost crazy in that case.

220"

 

[KING DRANZER]

Here is what I am considering:

1. KEF In-wall THX speakers(15ch setup)(Safest-bet, but can I top it with something else in the list)
2. JTR(15ch+ setup)
3. Focal(15ch setup)
4. PSA(15ch+ setup)
5. JBL Synthesis M2 + SCL1(15ch setup)(I really hope it is a lot different than Synthesis HDI series)
6. Ascendo(not sure how many ch I need)
7. RBH(not sure how many ch I need)(also how does lower end models compare to flagship)
8. Denovo Audio Titan(15ch+ setup)
9. QSC/JBL Cinema(15ch+ setup)

 

[KING DRANZER]

I am not sure how lower end RBH speakers compare to their flagship SVTR speaker. That is what I got to listen in 2ch setup and it was decent on imaging and had as much depth as Focal but was lot more dynamic than the KEF R5 Meta I listened to on the same day. I did listen to Reference 5 Meta on a different day in a different location it was on a different level than the R5 meta when it comes to dynamics. But was it close to RBH SVTR I unable to compare both in my mind as I heard RBH earlier last year and no with no SUBs while Reference 5 Meta just 2 months ago with SUBs. Long gap and bit different setup. But yeah from what I remember RBH to be the gap was not crazy. How does lower end models in RBH compare to SVTR. Should I consider them.

 

[shadyJ]

KEF is solid. JTR is very good. Focal is good, but it depends on what you get. Forget about PSA, not on the level of these other brands. JBL synthesis is solid. Ascendo is a big question mark, and I wouldn't risk it. RBH is solid. I don't know anything about Denovo. QSC and JBL cinema are meant for commercial cinemas, there is no way I would consider those for a residential installation, unless maybe the room was gigantic.

In this space, I would also consider Perlisten and Grimani. You might look at JTR's installer brand called RTJ.

 

[KING DRANZER]

KEF is solid. JTR is very good. Focal is good, but it depends on what you get. Forget about PSA, not on the level of these other brands. JBL synthesis is solid. Ascendo is a big question mark, and I wouldn't risk it. RBH is solid. I don't know anything about Denovo. QSC and JBL cinema are meant for commercial cinemas, there is no way I would consider those for a residential installation, unless maybe the room was gigantic.

In this space, I would also consider Perlisten and Grimani. You might look at JTR's installer brand called RTJ.

Room is 25'x30'x10'. Will QSC and JBL Cinema line be too big for this. Okay will not go for PSA audio.

JBL Synthesis I did not like Synthesis HDI series at all. It absolutely did not have depth of field at all. It was really decent for having sound-stage and 2d imaging but when it comes to having depth and enveloping effect it felt absolutely flat compared to KEF R5 and even Focal Kanta which I did side by side comparison of. Considering that I am not sure how the higher end models will perform. If they perform similarly then that will not be ideal. Please can you provide some insight in this.

JTR is also the one I am considering but yeah it is said to have narrower field and need lot more channels to get similar enveloping experience as KEF. But is said to be the most dynamic speaker and also really decent on clarity and imaging.

RBH are the lower end models a lot worse than the SVTR or close to it in performance just lacking the absolute lower end due to the size limitations.

Pearlisten and Grimani are way too expensive. Pearlisten I was considering initially. But is getting crazy expensive as a whole package.

I am looking for speakers that could give me enveloping experience liek KEF Reference and R series does. While being bit more dynamic if possible. Having similar deapth of field and enveloping experience is the key. Already getting KEF Reference + R Meta series setup for Living room. Need a step up from it.

 

[shadyJ]

The depth you are talking about is probably side-wall and late reflections from a wider dispersion. The JBL would have less of that than the Focal and KEF since it has narrower dispersion. The JTR would have even narrower dispersion. So what you want is something that has both wide dispersion and wide dynamic range. That is a tall order and can't be done cheaply. Perlisten does this, RBH does this, and so do some Grimani speakers. You might also look at Legacy Audio, but again, they are pricey.

 

[KING DRANZER]

The depth you are talking about is probably side-wall and late reflections from a wider dispersion. The JBL would have less of that than the Focal and KEF since it has narrower dispersion. The JTR would have even narrower dispersion. So what you want is something that has both wide dispersion and wide dynamic range. That is a tall order and can't be done cheaply. Perlisten does this, RBH does this, and so do some Grimani speakers. You might also look at Legacy Audio, but again, they are pricey.

Thought so. Would upping the channel count help with it a bit. I can do that. I mean if I was unable to find something similar I was going to up the game with Trinnov or Storm Audio 32ch processor. Will that help for what I want with something like JTR or other narrower dispersion speakers.

To be more clear on what I noticed with KEF and Focal is added dimension like I can tell that object is placed closer to me than others surrounding it and exactly how close it is etc. Like a complete 3D image. I think that is what enveloping effect is called. I hope I am able to explain what I am getting to at.

 

[shadyJ]

Upping the channel count could help with envelopment by replacing acoustic reflections with direct sound. You would want a treated room for that with lots of absorption. This isn't something meant for living room or family room, this is for a dedicated home theater room.