Canton Vento vs Chrono SL (models with ceramic tweeters)

[truename]

Greetings!
Just want to thank everyone who provided meaningful info on Canton speakers in this thread.
Currently looking for a good deal on A4L. Too bad the sale is over but I can be patient lol.
Vento 826.2 and Chrono SL 536.2 are on my short list. Ceramic tweeters are a must. Heck, might even go for an open box floorstanders if the price is right. Will see ...

One thing ... I can get into Monitor Audio Silver 100 for about the same money. Thoughts on them vs Chrono/Vento with the new ceramic tweeter?
Thanks.

 

[mtrot]

I own the rz920 and it definitely has it. I believe you can find it on the product or data sheet. The 920 was from 2017 and is the newest model they have at the moment with all their best features. They do have a rz3400 and rz1400 coming out though. Which is very similar to pioneer elite 904 and 704. Now the integra is similar too, the drx7.1 is like onkyo 1100 or pio 801. The integra drx1.1 is the only one that’s slightly different with the bigger power supply and slightly heavier.

onkyo/ integra/ pioneer are all made by the same company. The onkyo/integra are more alike though, using same eq and dac. Pioneer uses mcacc eq and ess 9026pro Sabre Dacs. Same dac found in Yamaha 3080. The pioneer sound now is different then years past, with a warmer thicker sound. Onkyo/integra is sharper more precise with dynamics. Both are great but pair to different types of speakers better. Pioneer sounds more like a marantz now but with more power and dynamics.

It’s all personal preference and people hear things different so it’s subjective for sure. I just know what I like and what I hear to sound the best to me.

also the onkyo uses akm4490 dac for front left and right. Akm 4458 for other channels. Akm4458 is same dac used in marantz 8012

Thanks much for your reply, very helpful. As long as the RZ920 would allow me to dispense with using two HDMI cables, which I have to with my 5200, that will be a nice advance right there, as it will allow me so see the on screen menu overlays, which I cannot see now.

Here is the product sheet for the 920. I can't find that feature, but maybe you can and I'm just not seeing it.

https://www.onkyousa.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/TX-RZ920_US_20171027.pdf

I like the idea of the Integra DRX 7.1, but I guess it would cost way more than the RZ920.

 

[mtrot]

Set to suit the number of speaker channels connected.
–Press

on the remote controller to display the Setup menu. Select "2. Speaker" - "Configuration" - "Speaker Channels" in order with the cursors, and set the number of speaker channels.
You can reduce power consumption by turning off the power of the SPEAKERS terminals you are not using on this unit. Make the setting in "7. Miscellaneous" - "Preamp Mode" in the Setup me

Thanks! I guess my other concern would be the output voltage supplied by the pre-outs. Audioholics tested the Denon AVR-X5200 and found:

"I measured unclipped output of 4.5Vrms from every channel. We like to see at least 2Vrms and the Denon met this with over 6db of margin to spare." The 5200 seems to drive my Krell power amp quite well.

Now, if I'm reading the RZ 920 data sheet correctly, it indicates nominal output of 1 V. I wonder if this would be enough to drive my Krell power amp as well as my Denon 5200 does. I'm not aware if anybody has tested the 920.

 

[KEW]

Sure.

you have woofers

you have mid woofers

you have mids

you have transducers

you have tweeters

you have super tweeters

Now you build a speaker and tell me where you want a xover point to be.

When does a two-way speaker ever have more (or less) than one crossover point? When does a three-way have anything other than 2 crossover points? When does a 4 way ever have anything other than 3 crossover points? Please give at least one legitimate example (of a manufactured speaker that doesn't)!

I added the bit in the parenthesis to make it clear. Please link at least one speaker that validates your statement below:

just because a speaker is 2 way. 2.5 way. 3 way or even 4 way doesn’t mean it has to have one crossover point or even 3.

PS - all speaker drivers are transducers by definition!

 

[mtrot]

That’s from the manual sorry not product sheet. Also the integra drx7.1 is 5lbs or so heavier than rz920 with bigger power supply. Also it’s only $1099 on a4L refurbished. With 2 year warranty. Awesome deal! Or get new rz920 for about $999.

Whoa, looks like the DRX 7.1 does NOT have wi-fi, so I might rather go with the RZ920. I also do not see in the DRX 7.1 information that it accepts high resolution audio such as DSD over HDMI from a universal disc player, such as my Oppo 203. I need to be able to play my SACD and DVD-Audio titles. I think I saw that the RZ 920 will do that.

 

[mtrot]

I think gene tested the integra pre outs any they did really well. Were over 4 I believe and my rz920 has been paired with some nice amps. Parasound a51, Adcom 7805, B&k 200.5, Rotel 1095 with great success. Onkyo has been known for having one of the best pre amp sections for many years. I’ve seen the rz1100 and rz900 do over 4.5vrms on different reviews.

also the 920 has independent subwoofer channels for trim and delay. Just like your 5200 I believe

for the price difference I would get the integra though but remember it doesn’t have WiFi if that’s important to you.

Okay, that sounds like it will work fine with the Krell.

 

[mtrot]

where are you going to buy the rz920? Onkyo has been ruining sales lately.

I see Onkyo has it on sale for $998.99. Not sure if it can be had for less money elsewhere. I guess if I want to make a receiver change and want the 920, I should go for it now, because it probably won't be available much longer and they aren't making a 930 or 940.

 

[mtrot]

hard to get better for the money. Do you really rely on audyssey? Most onkyo owners like to manually eq.

Lol, I'm weird, but I've never used any of those room correction programs on any of my AVRs! I've only run a 4.0 system until recently when I got my Polk LSiM706 center channel speaker. Now, I'm 5.0. I set my channel levels with a Radio Shack sound level meter.

 

[snakeeyes]

Right now I have a 5.1.4 setup and I’m going to go to 5.1.6.

have 6 canton in ceiling speakers and wasn’t sure if I could do surrounds all the way in back of room.

I can though and I will just need right set. Room is big though at 30’ by 17’ by 9’. I’ll be about 10’ or more from surrounds. So I need something I can hear, but I was worried about the in ceiling speakers. Was pleasantly surprised by what they can do. 6 Atmos speakers sounds incredible so I’m glad I have that wired.

Well at 10 feet you should go with the larger and deeper 816.2 Vento probably.

 

[PENG]

I would like to try denon and marantz again for sure.

last ones I had were marantz 7012 and denon 4300 and they were a big step down from the onkyo rz920 and the pioneer 502 I’m using now. The 502 will soon be Sent to a kids room and 920 will take it’s place. I’ve been looking at arcam lately and that’s probably my next move. I also like the new pio 904 though. So maybe I need to buy a few and compare. I also had Yamaha 3070 and integra drx1. Integra was so similar to my onkyo and not worth the price difference. Yamaha was nice too but I liked the onkyo/integra sound better.

I liked onkyo so much I have rz620 and rz720 in kids rooms. Nice having a big family, everyone gets a system. Lol

If you found the 7012 and 4300 a big step down from the RZ920 then there wouldn't be any point trying Marantz or Denon again would it? As far as I know there isn't any changes made to the SR7013 and AVR-X4500H that would change their sound quality specs. Based on published specs and bench measurements, those D&M models should be in par with the Yamaha RX-A2000/3000 series and I see no reason they would be a step down from Onkyo's.

I hate to say this, but it would be hard to do an AB comparisons of those AVRs and conclude which one is a step down, or up in "sound quality" when no DSP functions are engaged, level matched and done at least under single blind conditions. So any such reports/claims of one sounding "better" than the other are likely subjective based to a large degree where the saying ymmv would apply.

 

[PENG]

I tried to put mostly facts in there but had to give my opinion a little. Haha

Of course, unless opinions get stated as though they were facts, and that's not hard to do/avoid sometimes. Not you obviously..

 

[KEW]

I’ll find you a speaker??? I’m not going to look for some speakers crossover to prove my point. You can do that for me, which I’m sure you already have. Sure a 2 way speaker can’t have a 4 way xover. What are you trying to prove?

im so confused by you

What I am trying to prove is that people need to be wary of the information you provide because you seem to be unencumbered by the need to be factual or honest.
Of course, you are the only one who can really prove something like that! However, I can test to see how you react when confronted with fact on false statements that you make; and, I can also call attention to how you respond.
Thus when you said:

50.2 has two 7” drivers doing the exact same thing as each other. Makes it’s a 2.5 way speaker, ...

I gave you the facts and explained that you are describing a two way speakers and instructing people that it is a 2.5 way speaker. I explained that it wasn't the number of drivers, but the number of crossover points that determines how many way a speaker is.
Instead of acknowledging your mistake, you gave a nonsensical response to obfuscate your mistake:

just because a speaker is 2 way. 2.5 way. 3 way or even 4 way doesn’t mean it has to have one crossover point or even 3.

Then when I asked you to identify a speaker to demonstrate what you said, you will not be bothered to (it does seem you understand this would be a difficult task?).

We have people come here all of the time with misconceptions. Most will come around if someone takes the time to explain the facts (and I explained a 2.5 way speaker to you in post #95), others will simply leave ...
and there are a very few that get upset about being expected to be factual!
We all make honest mistakes, but only a few of us deny and try to cover-up our mistakes.

Like I said, your own posts establish your character!

 

[mtrot]

you’ll love the rz920 then. I’ve never been a fan of Audyssey.

BTW, my Onkyo TX-NR809 that I bought back in the day has been in continuous use and is still working and sounding fantastic in my bedroom system. Never had a problem with it, knock on wood, lol.

 

[KEW]

What are you trying to prove?

Like I said, you are the one who is proving something!
You have certainly done a thorough job!

I kind of remembered something to be wary you, but couldn't put my finger on it!
You were the guy that said your Rythmik FV18 has more output and less distortion than a JTR Captivator 2400ULF:

I like the jtr subs but I did a direct comparison with a cap24000ulf vs fv18 rev2 paper and Rythmik had more output and sounded better. I even had more output at 10hz with fv18. Cap2400 was fun though but made some unpleasant noises at times and wasn’t nice enough looking to justify keeping.

When ShadyJ argued that the Captivator was unquestionably more capable:

just because one driver has a longer throw doesn’t mean it has more output. Driver has to hit its standard start stop movement. That’s what people miss when looking at performance. Rythmik subs will throw fast with yes less excursion than a jtr sub. But it can do almost 2 cycles to 1 on jtr with less ringing and find its zero balance much faster. Servo subs are the real deal.

When I read something like that, I assume you must have some actual measurement data!
But when ShadyJ used the DataBass Group Delay Data to prove you wrong, your response was:

Definitely need to stop using data bass as the end all be all.

The thread continued downhill and the last response to you was:

A lot of this posted gets twisted or read in a way that’s not meant.

Especially when someone goes back through and deletes posts because..?

You have a budget that many here would love to have, but buying good gear doesn't make you an authority, you have to be concerned about whether what you say is true and be willing to walk the walk (like finding the speaker that validates your "facts")!

 

[KEW]

I’d ha I never asked for proof of your part numbers or pictures that you even own the speakers you say. Who knows if you even took anything apart.

And, yet, I already promised pictures because it is better that way. Many here know me from the last decade of being on the board. I am not perfect, but I think they know and respect that I do my best and they have also seen that I eat crow when warranted without trying to obscure the facts.
As I said in my post on the crossover:

I will get up photos before the end of the weekend.

 

[everettT]

You weren’t apart of that thread and don’t really know what happened.

I posted comments about what people were saying about me on avs and had no relevance to that thread so I deleted them. That’s it

many posts have been deleted on that thread.

pictures don’t really matter at all, they just show exactly what people expected. Bunch of drivers and parts with different part numbers.

as far as bass or subs every room acts differently and data bass is a tool but not the ending point by any means. You can have two subs in same place and react differently based on driver and port orientation. Move to another spot and same great sub sounds bad. So room dependent, even port height matters.

I love the jtr subs but I liked the Rythmik better and felt the cap 2400 was missing things the fv18 had. It fit my room better. Had better results too

I was part of that thread and I'd like to know how port height changes the sound of a sub. Port length, yes.

 

[KEW]

You weren’t apart of that thread and don’t really know what happened.

It seems you just can't help yourself but to say whatever you like, as if it were fact!

Posts #27 and #28 are mine.
Your first post was #32. I did not respond to your posts in that thread because others were already addressing your statements and I was not the OP (like I am here).

PS - it is easy to check to see if I was in that thread.
Like I said, you like to speak with authority but are not willing to put any effort into actually having authority when you speak.

 

[everettT]

sure if driver is in front and port in back the port can sound much different. Then say ports in front with driver. Reflecting off wall or boundary gain changes that. Also why rear ports are great for hiding nasty chuffing.

now height is a little harder to explain for me. I’m not an engineer but I’ve heard the difference. Might have to do with reflection off floor and adding spl to different frequencies. Shady j would probably know this better than me. I think that’s why he raises subs way off ground to test to eliminate any add to spl. For a better result of course. Now some subs it can help and domes not as much.

I’ve even been in studios where they have sub risers that elevate them 2-4’ off the ground. I bet gene would understand this better than me of course. I have a few really smart friends that have even helped me with rew and changing the height really helped.

just wanted to say I really like the jtr too just had more chuffing and less mid bass than my fv18. I also get a ton of low bass in room so that’s never an issue.

In any good ported sub design (with a couple if exceptions) the port should couple with the driver. I've never seen location as to height in the modeling software I've used dictate height (except with loudspeakers). Well designed subs should never chuff except under insane conditions and any reflection that the port may interact with should be in audible, unlike loudspeakers and say rear porting rear a wall.

Glad you are enjoying your Rythmik, that's what is about.

 

[Pogre]

I'm a little lost here...

 

[everettT]

It’s really all room dependent and these issues aren’t always found at lower levels.

I’ll admit I’m a bass head when it comes to movies. As my friends and family already know. Haha

I’ll play demos that approach 130db for quick sessions of course. Just fun to do, and many subs make horrible sounds or break at these levels. The jtr wasn’t bad but did make some odd sounds when pushed. The older Fv15hp was bad as well when plugging one port. That sub was just bad when loud in one port mode. I had similar issues as well with a few psa subs. To be fair with psa I haven’t owned one since the v1800 and v3600.

some subs just sound better when loud and I’m happy Rythmik made the fv18 with 3 4” ports. I would of never bought other version. I wonder how the fv25hp does with such small ports with those drivers. I don’t see many complaints though so maybe it’s fine or people don’t push them that far.

really is some great gear to try out there! Psa new stuff looks interesting but I couldn’t put those uglier boxes in my rooms. I’ve tried and the waf is as low as it gets. Lol maybe I could hide a tv42

That's what I was trying to convey, a port on sub is specifically designed for a driver and cabinet, round or slotted. Placement and size has nothing nothing to do with comparisons of units.