Canton Vento vs Chrono SL (models with ceramic tweeters)

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So the newer sl line sounds like a vento from 10 years ago so. That makes sense with them using older parts. Also he was convinced and supposedly done the swap with trim rings before. So we’ll see if it works.
Did you get photos of drivers part numbers? Voice coil? Magnet? Spider? Vent?
I seriously doubt drivers are way different but definitely not the same.
As is usually the case, the drivers are only numbered as an assembly, not piecemeal for the parts. I have numbers but will not verify them until tomorrow. However, I know the woofer is different, because, as I said, the 820.2 predates the titanium woofer. But not having to modify the crossover indicates that they have the same characteristics.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
My Vento bookshelf is the 820.2 which predates the titanium woofer, so definitely not. However the 876 does have the newer Titanium driver. It is likely not the same part number even if it is the same driver because I suspect there is a feature on the newer driver frame to accommodate the trim ring and they would change the P/N..
Here's what I can determine on the tweeters.
Vento 820.2 is P/N 17671
Vento 876 is P/N 17671
Chrono SL-526.2 is P/N 21759 (with press-in trim ring mount)

For the woofers:
Vento 820.2 is P/N 415481 (Aluminum)
Vento 876 is P/N 20130 (Titanium - mid-range and woofer are the same driver).
Chrono SL-526.2 is P/N 21768 (Titanium with press-in trim ring mount)

So, we see that the part numbers do not match up! However, given that the Chrono SL are of the current generation with the press-in trim ring I would expect a different P/N (because none of my Vento models have the press-in trim ring).

I do not have any of the newest generation of Vento (with press-in trim rings), however, anyone who has one of the current Vento bookshelf speakers can simply look into the port with a flashlight and read the P/N off the back of the tweeter to verify that it is labeled as P/N 21759.

However. as I said, I can get a little OCD over this stuff, so I decided to talk to Mark at Accessories4Less. He is the guy who puts together the orders to have shipped from Canton (and an audio enthusiast).
I asked about the differences between the newer Chrono SL (which have the ceramic tweeters) and Mark confirmed the drivers and crossover were the same as the equivalent Vento 8X6.2 and the only difference is the cabinets.
As I said before, the curved cabinets (the way Canton lays up plys - not like the Pioneer BS-22) is a difficult build and the expense is high. The curved cabinets reduce resonances (which can also be accomplished with adequate bracing) and break up wave reflections which the Chrono does not address.
The Ventos do look sleeker to my eye, but in my subjective experience, the sound is too close for me to detect any decisive difference and prefer one over the other!

While I had Mark on the phone, I asked him about the Vento Reference speakers and what they offer above the Vento. He said that they did use different drivers which incorporated larger magnets/stronger motor structures (and a different crossover to go with them). I like the Vento enough that I feel like the Vento Reference sends me too far down the "diminishing returns" rabbit hole, but Mark said he is hoping Canton will have a 50th Anniversary edition based on the Reference-K drivers - which is what temptation looks like ... especially if I can get it in a bookshelf version!
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I’m happy my 836 and 820.2 don’t have those rings. Hopefully I never need to perform surgery on my 556.2 or 516.2 speakers. LOL :)
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Funny how the salesman tells you both what you want to hear in order to get each sale over the finish line. :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Funny how the salesman tells you both what you want to hear in order to get each sale over the finish line. :)
Well, that really doesn't apply in my case because I phrased it in terms of just wanting information! I did not present myself as being "in the market" (this time).
I would guess Tim got his information before Mark knew as much about the newer Chrono SL line with the Ceramic tweeters as he does today.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Well, that really doesn't apply in my case because I phrased it in terms of just wanting information! I did not present myself as being "in the market" (this time).
I would guess Tim got his information before Mark knew as much about the newer Chrono SL line with the Ceramic tweeters as he does today.
Honestly I was so surprised my SL 556.2 was so good. I had originally planned to pair it with my 820.2 pair in my bedroom but it’s perfect with my 836 Ventos in my Den since my room isn’t that big. Sure a 866.2 center would be cool but it’s a lot more expensive. :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So they have different part numbers but they are the same? Hmmmmm.
Come on! Pay attention!

What he said was (and I even put it in bold to highlight it):
I asked about the differences between the newer Chrono SL (which have the ceramic tweeters) and Mark confirmed the drivers and crossover were the same as the equivalent Vento 8X6.2 and the only difference is the cabinets.
The different part numbers I posted do not include the Vento 8X6.2 models (with press-in trim rings) and I specifically explained that they were obviously different parts simply by looking at them:
So, we see that the part numbers do not match up! However, given that the Chrono SL are of the current generation with the press-in trim ring I would expect a different P/N (because none of my Vento models have the press-in trim ring).
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
So they have different part numbers but they are the same? Hmmmmm.

Maybe you or mark misunderstood the conversation. Mark has spoken to me as well many times and he told me to get the regular chrono line over the SL. Said the only difference is cosmetic, now that wasn’t the .2 version with ceramic tweeters. Again we talked and he said the newer .2 is only a tweeter upgrade and not to worry about them. Not a big upgrade over my chrono 518. Then we talked about the vento line as well and how it’s a substantial upgrade going from SL to vento. Now the reference is another step entirely. Just not the older reference as much as the newer stuff. I wouldn’t want a 50.2 center over a 866.2.

you definitely have proven though they use different parts and I appreciate the time you took to find out.
Just a quick question, as you seem to know a lot about Canton and are a big proponent of the 866.2. I think you really like that it is a three way speaker and even prefer it over the two way Vento Reference 50.2. Could you elaborate a bit more about that?

Also, how does the 866.2 work as a three way speaker? I ask because it looks like a two way speaker. It appears to have two large woofers on it and a tweeter. Is one woofer the mid range drive and the other woofer the low frequency woofer? I looked on the A4L website description but it wasn't clear to me how it works.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Chief
Just a quick question, as you seem to know a lot about Canton and are a big proponent of the 866.2. I think you really like that it is a three way speaker and even prefer it over the two way Vento Reference 50.2. Could you elaborate a bit more about that?

Also, how does the 866.2 work as a three way speaker? I ask because it looks like a two way speaker. It appears to have two large woofers on it and a tweeter. Is one woofer the mid range drive and the other woofer the low frequency woofer? I looked on the A4L website description but it wasn't clear to me how it works.
The Vento Reference 50.2 is a 2.5 way speaker, not 2 way.
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
866.2 has a 7” bass driver, and a separate 7” mid driver and the tweeter. Makes it a 3 way playing independently.

50.2 has two 7” drivers doing the exact same thing as each other. Makes it’s a 2.5 way speaker, which can have excellent results as well. I know that canton realized that moving the tweeter up would actually have a bigger effect on the sound.

tweeter on axis can result in a few issues for sure.

why bookshelves are 2 way speakers when they have one driver doing mids and lows as one. Why a tower speaker with a dedicated mid and dedicated lows will always have more dynamics. I believe will sound better as well.

I would have to double check but I’m almost certain the new chrono SL is a 3 way center channel as well. Just using much smaller cabinet and drivers.
Thanks for that info.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
50.2 has two 7” drivers doing the exact same thing as each other. Makes it’s a 2.5 way speaker, which can have excellent results as well.
You are describing a 2-way speaker!
One of the best ways to verify whether it is a 2-way or 2.5-way is to check the specifications for the crossover (if included). A 2-way will have only one crossover point while a 2.5 (or 3-way) way will have two crossover points!
If it is, indeed a 2.5-way speaker, one of the 7" drivers will only act as a woofer. The reason it is not a 3-way speaker is because the other 7" driver acts not as a mid-range only, but as a combined mid-range/woofer!

For example, this is a 2-way speaker, because it is not the number of drivers, but how the crossover splits the signal that determines the number of "ways". 2500Hz is specified as the single crossover point, so we know all three tweeters act together above 2500Hz and all four 6-1/2" drivers act together below 2500Hz.
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Yes my Chrono SL 556.2 center is a 3-way. (As far as the specs say) The drivers are 6in.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
get a ac infinity cooler to sit on top of that denon. Do you like listening louder? A nice option would be a better avr like the integra drx 7.1 or 1.1. Even has a true pre amp mode when you buy an amp. Pre amp mode is way more important then people realize. As you increase the volume distortion comes into the channels even when you run a separate amp. Eventually you’ll start clipping and think your new 200x5 emotiva or whatever is junk. When it’s really the avr that is doing it. Only denon that does this is the 8500. Also the power on those integra avrs is a substantial improvement over the denon 4300. If you were on a budget I’d say keep it and it’s a good avr to build around. You said money doesn’t matter so the move to a better avr is definitely smart. The integra is a d3 amp, so digital to make it simpler to explain. Runs way cooler with way less power draw. At 4 ohms and 1 percent distortion or below you’ll be getting close to 280x2, 240x5 and even 200x7. The denon will be half that or less.
That preamp mode is nice, but whether it is bad without it would depend on other factors too. One being your target amplifier output. For example, the AVR-X4300H's preout would stay quite clean up to 2 V and excellent at up to 1.5 V, even when connected to the power amps. Also, you can isolate the front left and right channel by selecting the 7.1.4 layout while assigning FL/FR to pre-out. So at least if and when used for two channel stereo with external power amp it would be equivalent to having the preamp mode.

By the way, you mentioned the DRX7.1 had the same DAC as the X8500H? The fact is, it has the same one for the FL/FR channels only. The Denon has it (AK4490) for each and every channel, there are 8 independent DAC boards in total. The DRX 7.1 has a very average/below average DAC for the Z2/3. It still adopted the same large scale IC chip that is also used in Yamaha's RX-A series for vol. control. Denon/Marantz has upgraded their LSI IC chip to several individual MSI chips, namely the NJU72343 that has been used since 2016 if I am not mistaken.

Other than that, I agree the DRX 7.1 has some impressive features and specs.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
thanks, I had a feeling it was. My 515 is as well and I really like the way it sounds.

snakeeyes you own the vento or chrono on wall? Sorry I can’t remember but I know you’ve mentioned it. Was wondering if they are loud enough or if you ever think another pair of bookshelves would be better?

I was considering buying some. Thanks for the help.
Yes Chrono SL 516.2 and they are very nice but keep in mind my den is 16x17x8.5 sealed and they are 3.5 feet from the ends of the sofa so I don’t require much SPL. :)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks for adding this, and I’ve never looked into zone 2 or zone 3.

the only channels that are really important to have a quality dac is the left and right. I can see that other zones can be important though.

as you increase the volume distortion levels still do rise on the front channel on that denon 4300 with setting to pre for front channels. So if front channels on built in amp start clipping it will shut off the denon. The 8500 is different and is a nice that it offers pre amp mode. The cheapest avr that offers this is an onkyo rz920. Can set to fronts off or fronts and center off or all channels. Nice options to have.

I could be wrong but the denon 8500 only has pre amp mode for all channels. So it’s either off or on. Is that right?


I like all these quality avrs but some speakers sound better with different ones. I’d like to see denon and marantz offer better amp section and better build quality. Obviously 8500 and 8012 are stand outs and excellent.
I think for the 8500 is all or none, not as cool as the selectable one that the Integra offers. However, I think you missed the point that with Denon/Marantz's from X3600H and higher models, you can use the amp assign functions to cheat the system, thereby allowing you to have a virtual (practically the same preamp mode) for the FL and FR channels, i.e. the most important channels for Stereo. I suppose one can do the same "cheat" to isolate the individual channels too with the X8500H because that model allows you to assign practically any channels, but I have not looked into the details so I can't say for sure.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You are describing a 2-way speaker!
One of the best ways to verify whether it is a 2-way or 2.5-way is to check the specifications for the crossover (if included). A 2-way will have only one crossover point while a 2.5 (or 3-way) way will have two crossover points!
If it is, indeed a 2.5-way speaker, one of the 7" drivers will only act as a woofer. The reason it is not a 3-way speaker is because the other 7" driver acts not as a mid-range only, but as a combined mid-range/woofer!

... it is not the number of drivers, but how the crossover splits the signal that determines the number of "ways".
Why did you dislike the post I made above?
Do you believe my explanation is incorrect?

The Monitor Audio Silver is a good example of a speaker with specifications that make it easier to see how a 2-1/2-way speaker works:
System Format
2-1/2-way

Crossover Frequency
LF: 700 Hz
MF/HF: 2.9 kHz

Drive Unit Complement
1 x 5-1/4" C-CAM RST bass driver
1 x 5-1/4" C-CAM RST bass/mid driver
1 x 1" (25 mm) C-CAM Gold Dome tweeter
 
M

mtrot

Full Audioholic
Thanks for adding this, and I’ve never looked into zone 2 or zone 3.

the only channels that are really important to have a quality dac is the left and right. I can see that other zones can be important though.

as you increase the volume distortion levels still do rise on the front channel on that denon 4300 with setting to pre for front channels. So if front channels on built in amp start clipping it will shut off the denon. The 8500 is different and is a nice that it offers pre amp mode. The cheapest avr that offers this is an onkyo rz920. Can set to fronts off or fronts and center off or all channels. Nice options to have.

I could be wrong but the denon 8500 only has pre amp mode for all channels. So it’s either off or on. Is that right?


I like all these quality avrs but some speakers sound better with different ones. I’d like to see denon and marantz offer better amp section and better build quality. Obviously 8500 and 8012 are stand outs and excellent.
Interesting. This is important to me because I use a separate amp for my front L/R channels and may end up using a separate amp for my center channel as well. I'm currently using my Denon AVR-X5200, but I wonder if distortion is rising as I turn up the volume even though I am using the pre-outs for the front L/R channels. However, I looked on the Onkyo web site for this feature and I cannot find it anywhere. Also, it looks like the RZ920 is discontinued and Onkyo did not release an RZ930 or RZ940, correct?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
It was fine and I don’t disagree with what you said at all. He had a simple question so I gave him a simple answer.
So you would prefer to give a simple, but incorrect answer? I see this forum as a community which should try to keep information as accurate as possible. Nobody likes to be corrected, but most of us recognize that it is ultimately a good thing when our mistakes are corrected.

just because a speaker is 2 way. 2.5 way. 3 way or even 4 way doesn’t mean it has to have one crossover point or even 3.
Tell me more!
When does a two-way speaker ever have more (or less) than one crossover point? When does a three-way have anything other than 2 crossover points? When does a 4 way ever have anything other than 3 crossover points? Please give at least one legitimate example!
This is a key difference between us! If/when you do, I will indeed have some egg on my face, but more importantly, it will be cool because I will have learned something (especially since it is in a field I care about), and I will thank you for that!
I disliked it because you like having final say on something like it’s a fact and I’ve grown tired of it.
It is a fact!
 
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