Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future?

[JengaHit]

The only person that I personally know that is listening to vinyl is a younger guy (twenties, accepted for PhD program at an excellent university) while the oldies like me have left that medium decades ago. On the other hand I'm the only person that have a 5.2 system, never mind an excellent one.

I actually know quite a few boomers and gen xers that listen to vinyl--and on modestly priced, not mega-expensive set ups. But they're a niche, as are people like myself who still listen to CDs (I do use Amazon Music HD too). The overwhelming majority of millennial relatives, friends, and acquaintances I know listen to music over their phones on ear buds or through streaming devices like Alexa or Bluesound Node 2i, and watch streaming movies/TV on their phones, tablets or TVs. No physical media. I don't know any millennials that have surround set ups. It's mostly too expensive or impractical as they live in apartments.

 

[Trell]

Maybe the people measuring the horizontal distance and the depth were each specialists in their fields.........

Maybe they used what they had.

When people don't want to learn something new, that's a bad sign.

They where/are specialists in their fields, for sure, but you missed the point.

 

[highfigh]

They where/are specialists in their fields, for sure, but you missed the point.

Sorry, just noticed the way you showed volume- not accustomed to that method- it's more commonly shown as meters^2 or meters² if someone were to use the Windows character map.

 

[Trell]

Sorry, just noticed the way you showed volume- not accustomed to that method- it's more commonly shown as meters^2 or meters² if someone were to use the Windows character map.

You still missed my point

 

[JengaHit]

The only person that I personally know that is listening to vinyl is a younger guy (twenties, accepted for PhD program at an excellent university) while the oldies like me have left that medium decades ago. On the other hand I'm the only person that have a 5.2 system, never mind an excellent one.

Anecdotally, in my casual conversations with millennials most of them prize affordable, simple, one-box and wireless/streaming solutions that integrate with their phones and tablets (which a lot of products already do). Sound bars are really popular. A lot of them do have exposure to at least 5.1 through their parents' (mostly dads') HT systems and like "theater sound", but they seem indifferent to spending money on AVRs and 5/7.1 etc speakers. They don't want a lot of bother with complicated set ups. But I'd like to see actual marketing survey data on millennial hardware preferences and budget tolerances.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry, just noticed the way you showed volume- not accustomed to that method- it's more commonly shown as meters^2 or meters² if someone were to use the Windows character map.

Nothing "normal" about combining the expression of measurements from the two systems together like that....

 

[Peguinpower]

Hey, Boomer. I believe you’re fabricating a crisis. Almost every young person I know has Spotify. 99% of them are on a streaming service of some sort, to include the free ones. Each one has an audio device, whether it be their cellphone and some wired cans, wireless headphone, speaker, smart speaker, Sonos etc.

If anything, the youth dont care about fancy cables, and very few of them care about expensive gear. Just check Amazon.com, the market is full of quality affordable gear.

Quit making chit up. There is no problem. If anything, expensive gear is a tough sell on the youth. Ive seen many a Rok-it or a Sonos device or some powered speaker for their computers with them. They dont need your preaching.

The only poison I see here is from you against vinyl, and most anything else you dont agree with. 2 channel audio has gone the way of after market car stereos, handheld GPS devices, DSLR's etc. There are so many devices doing the same things, at a quality that is more than just acceptable, that almost no one has use for blingy car stereos. When was the last time you bought a Garmin? Nobody needs one unless youre looking at sailing or extreme adventure. Unless youre into photography deeply, the cellphone camera is plenty. The same goes for music listening. PC's and cellphones are the number one music players in high school and college. Trash vinyl as you may, it is probably one of the main gateway drugs for young people to discover purpose made music listening audio equipment. Sure, kill that too.

Sorry brah, youre out of touch. If you wanna hate on something thats caused harm to audio, hate on Beats. That company ate billions of dollars headed for audio and burned it on Monster Cables second worst invention, the Beats sound.

 

[sterling shoote]

A lot of the reason the US didn't convert completely to the Metric system is because our manufacturing base was so huge at the time- they also had older workers who were totally resistant to learning it- my dad worked for Harley Davidson and I heard comments and debated it with some of the people he would invite to our house- their stance was from total ignorance and, to a point, "USA! USA!" because we're so freaking special, right?

The school system I was in entered a program where the core classes (English, Science, Math and History) were in a group of rooms that eventually became one large space at the new middle school, but the old section was a repurposed building that was built in 1920 and couldn't be easily converted. I don't remember talking about the math classes with people outside of our area, so I don't know if they were working with Metric, but we rarely dealt with anything but the MKS system with Newtons and Meters in science, except when learning to convert from one system to the other.

Manufacturing has come around and the old pharts who refused to learn it are gone, but we still haven't converted, mainly because it would require an act of Congress and they don't really do much, other than tell us how they're here for us and how wonderful they are. Oh, and stay there until they die or decide they have enough money and don't need to do anything, anymore.

That said, the audio industry hasn't embraced it, either- we still express power output in Watts and the metric dimensions are secondary to inches/pounds. The only thing that really uses Joules is power surge protection devices and I would bet that most people ignore that rating and they don't understand it.

Some day we will want to talk about two other units of measurement: mils and MOA. As you alluded in another thread you have an interest in shooting and this makes me wonder if you have a preference for mils or MOA in sight adjustment, ranging estimation, and wind counters?

 

[Peguinpower]

Some day we will want to talk about two other units of measurement: mils and MOA. As you alluded in another thread you have an interest in shooting and this makes me wonder if you have a preference for mils or MOA in sight adjustment, ranging estimation, and wind counters?

Mils FTW. If you are looking to learn and use a targeting and weapon system, its easier to do so with Milliradians. Starting with the math, the logbooks, scope turrets, the Kestrel wind meters, the laser rangefinders, and also the reference material, its just easier to standardize with Mils.

 

[sterling shoote]

Mils FTW. If you are looking to learn and use a targeting and weapon system, its easier to do so with Milliradians. Starting with the math, the logbooks, scope turrets, the Kestrel wind meters, the laser rangefinders, and also the reference material, its just easier to standardize with Mils.

I range in mils but prefer sight adjustment in MOA, and wind counters in MOA. As a Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver the Squad Designated Marksman Course I instruct from the program's instructional text: sight adjustment in MOA, ranging in mils formula, and wind counter in MOA formula. MOA wind formula is very fast, since 7.62 M118LR and 5.56 Mk 262LR can use MOA wind constant of 10. Interesting enough, my scope has mil dot reticle and MOA dials, which I find is ideal, since I can use the reticle to hold off in mils for BDC, as well to see proper wind favor in inches, eliminating dialing if speed is important. Of course, MOA not mils is standard for Military Rifle Sights/Scope elevation and windage adjustment. I.e. M16-A4 and M4 irons, ACOG, and Aimpoint. Also, since I appraise wind at mid range I do not usually use a wind meter but instead judge it from effect and mirage.

 

[Peguinpower]

I range in mils but prefer sight adjustment in MOA, and wind counters in MOA. As a Military Rifle Instructor assisting the USAMU deliver the Squad Designated Marksman Course I instruct from the program's instructional text: sight adjustment in MOA, ranging in mils formula, and wind counter in MOA formula. MOA wind formula is very fast, since 7.62 M118LR and 5.56 Mk 262LR can use MOA wind constant of 10. My scope has mil dot reticle and MOA dials, which I find is ideal.

if you can see in my reply, I was not advocating either is better. rather, my opinion is based on someone picking up, learning and using a weapon system and the advantages of standardization. the mixture of both moa and mils only serves to increase complexity. I recognize though that proficiency trumps simplicity. MOA is indeed fast when shooting military rounds. I hand load and have my loads for 6.5CM and 5.56. I can get pretty fast for an enthusiast.

 

[sterling shoote]

if you can see in my reply, I was not advocating either is better. rather, my opinion is based on someone picking up, learning and using a weapon system and the advantages of standardization. the mixture of both moa and mils only serves to increase complexity. I recognize though that proficiency trumps simplicity. MOA is indeed fast when shooting military rounds. I hand load and have my loads for 6.5CM and 5.56. I can get pretty fast for an enthusiast.

As a shooting enthusiast do you participate in CMP or NRA High Power Rifle Competitions? I have no experience with the 6.5CM; but, a lot of rounds sent down range with 6.5/284. For NRA Long Range it's like shooting a laser, half the wind favor of .308. Still I prefer .223 Service Rifle with as issued irons shooting 80 grain Bergers for Long Range since it's very difficult, equating to more fun. BTW, the mixture of MOA and mils or just one or the other considered singularly might be seen as complex by some shooting enthusiasts not having any formal Marksmanship instruction. Good instruction

and practice makes an understanding and integration of mils and MOA easy for great benefit.

 

[highfigh]

You still missed my point

OK, what was your point, other than there's no reason to mix the two systems?

Speaking of missing the point, why would they need one specialist for feet and another for metric? I was pointing out the absurdity and it was a bit of a joke but you missed that. I guess I should have put
after that comment.

 

[highfigh]

Some day we will want to talk about two other units of measurement: mils and MOA. As you alluded in another thread you have an interest in shooting and this makes me wonder if you have a preference for mils or MOA in sight adjustment, ranging estimation, and wind counters?

I'm not that far into shooting- I haven't shot at great distances but understand why mils would be used vs MOA.

How the hell do you adjust for mirage? Seems like there would be a lot of variables to account for.

 

[Peguinpower]

BTW, the mixture of MOA and mils or just one or the other considered singularly might be seen as complex by some shooting enthusiasts not having any formal Marksmanship instruction. Good instructionView attachment 47189 and practice makes an understanding and integration of mils and MOA easy for great benefit.

I’m not criticizing your system. I believe in doing what works for you. I, and most people I shoot with strive for simplicity. Whether it be a system, the set up, interchangeability of parts/ammo, when life is on the line, and decisions have to be made fast, simplicity and standardization are more than helpful.

 

[highfigh]

Nothing "normal" about combining the expression of measurements from the two systems together like that....

True, but at some distances, converting form one to the other is easy. Still, English vs Metric is the reason the Mars Climate Orbiter was lost- remember that? NASA used Metric and Lockheed Martin used non-Metric units.

Mars Climate Orbiter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If I go to the next High School class reunion and the guy who sat next to me in Algebra I is there, I'll ask him about it since he has worked for NASA since college.

 

[msilgalis]

My man...
Calm down about vinyl. Nobody thinks the fidelity of vinyl is better than digital.

But you know what? Live show recordings don’t have the same sound as studio work. Some enjoy one more than the other. A lot of us just prefer the sound of vinyl. I can know that CD/digital is cleaner and more high resolution than vinyl but still enjoy vinyl more.

I enjoy vinyl and digital but why disparage the way anyone enjoys their music? Seems like shooting yourself in the foot if you’re trying to get more people to get into hi-fi and home theater.

Peace

 

[sterling shoote]

I'm not that far into shooting- I haven't shot at great distances but understand why mils would be used vs MOA.

How the hell do you adjust for mirage? Seems like there would be a lot of variables to account for.

Focusing a spotting scope on mirage at mid range gives the shooter recognition of wind direction/velocity. It precludes need for appraisal of wind direction/velocity as determined from wind effect on surroundings. Also, reading wind via mirage at mid range gets the shooter a better idea about needed favor for wind, since the bullet is most effected by mid range wind.

 

[Pogre]

How did this thread go from digital and vinyl to sniper school..?

 

[highfigh]

Focusing a spotting scope on mirage at mid range gives the shooter recognition of wind direction/velocity. It precludes need for appraisal of wind direction/velocity as determined from wind effect on surroundings. Also, reading wind via mirage at mid range gets the shooter a better idea about needed favor for wind, since the bullet is most effected by mid range wind.

What about the shooter's elevation WRT the target? That, temperature, wind, distance, projectile speed- those are the variables I was thinking about.