Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future?

[ciedema]

The photography analogy is very apt. In photography I can find sound evidence for things to improve my photos despite 'beauty' in visual arts being as subjective as those in auditory arts.

It photography the claims about digital photos vs film are easily measured grain size, colour depth etc. There aren't people try to convince you that some magic filter on your lenses will give your photos more clarity and depth. They either work or don't work and can be easily measured. That we need some special ethernet switch when moving photos around our networks

Photography amateurs can find a wealth of high-quality information available with minimal disinformation. Audio amateurs are overwhelmed with nonsense.

This opinion piece may be a little off when it come to claims around streaming formats and things like vinyl. But again back to the photography analogy - for most starting in the hobby a reasonable high resolution digital camera will give them great results with good technique. The beauty of black & white film can appreciated without running down digital formats. Also remember people get great results from JPG without need to resort to RAW.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Rip those cds and you'll not have to get the butt off the couch afterwards....

All that time and annoyance to rip ~2000 CDs? NFW. I'd rather get my exercise for the day and get off the sofa.

 

[lovinthehd]

All that time and annoyance to rip ~2000 CDs? NFW. I'd rather get my exercise for the day and get off the sofa.

LOL yeah I needed an injury to get the time to do it without taking it away from usual activities. There are ripping services, tho....or at least there used to be.

 

[Pogre]

Rip those cds and you'll not have to get the butt off the couch afterwards....

I was gonna say the same thing. My whole library is at my fingertips.

 

[Pogre]

LOL yeah I needed an injury to get the time to do it without taking it away from usual activities. There are ripping services, tho....or at least there used to be.

There was definitely a time investment at first. I did a small pile a night spread out over several weeks. Now I just rip the new ones as I buy them.

 

[3db]

There was definitely a time investment at first. I did a small pile a night spread out over several weeks. Now I just rip the new ones as I buy them.

I used the same approach as you... initial ripping took me a month to do and every new purchase gets ripped right away.

 

[3db]

All that time and annoyance to rip ~2000 CDs? NFW. I'd rather get my exercise for the day and get off the sofa.

Irv, you know beer wont gets itself!! There's your exercise right there not to mention going out to the stores to purchase your favourite brands and the constant restocking effort of keeping beer chilled in the fridge.

 

[sterling shoote]

So, the gist of it is enthusiasts want "new blood" to support the hobby so boomers can continue to enjoy it. That sounds like what Count Dracula is looking for. It's not going to happen; instead, technology is soon going to get multi-channel music and movie streaming via iPhone to TV and active wireless speakers for inexpensive, unencumbered, and equipment free entertainment. And, with such convenience, quality, and low cost why would anyone have any interest in what is seen as antique methods for recorded music and movie entertainment when such means does not have any quality to make it compelling. I'll tell you who, nobody. The bottom-line here is why lament over new technology displacing older technology when the new technology better serves the market for recorded music and movie entertainment.

 

[TLS Guy]

While I agree with much of what has been written here (and I'm a manufacturer) I can't agree with embracing things like room treatments. I'm an acoustician and an audio consultant, my name is attached to 7 of the 10 largest AV installs on planet earth and I trained under Eric Desart the creator of the quietest recording rooms on earth.

People do NOT need to embrace room treatment, most of it is utter rubbish, I've tested hundreds of products and none of them do what they claim.

People need to understand their rooms better, that is the be all and end all of good sound. But they DON'T usually need acoustic treatment in any way and they don't need to be playing with programs like REW that they do not know how to interpret properly. Room treatment is like cables and exaggerated isolation claims, it's pure headology.

If you want to to know more by all means take a look at our (very underpopulated but factually correct) posts on Halcyon-audio.com, we're British, so there is no conflict by posting a link. You might even find some of the articles useful

You are correct about that. Room treatments are a waste of time and look awful.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, because 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards in a mile is much easier to work with than 1,000 meters in a kilometer, and 12 inches in a foot and 36 inches in a yard is much easier to work with than 100 centimeters in a meter. You guys are really progressive down there.

A lot of the reason the US didn't convert completely to the Metric system is because our manufacturing base was so huge at the time- they also had older workers who were totally resistant to learning it- my dad worked for Harley Davidson and I heard comments and debated it with some of the people he would invite to our house- their stance was from total ignorance and, to a point, "USA! USA!" because we're so freaking special, right?

The school system I was in entered a program where the core classes (English, Science, Math and History) were in a group of rooms that eventually became one large space at the new middle school, but the old section was a repurposed building that was built in 1920 and couldn't be easily converted. I don't remember talking about the math classes with people outside of our area, so I don't know if they were working with Metric, but we rarely dealt with anything but the MKS system with Newtons and Meters in science, except when learning to convert from one system to the other.

Manufacturing has come around and the old pharts who refused to learn it are gone, but we still haven't converted, mainly because it would require an act of Congress and they don't really do much, other than tell us how they're here for us and how wonderful they are. Oh, and stay there until they die or decide they have enough money and don't need to do anything, anymore.

That said, the audio industry hasn't embraced it, either- we still express power output in Watts and the metric dimensions are secondary to inches/pounds. The only thing that really uses Joules is power surge protection devices and I would bet that most people ignore that rating and they don't understand it.

 

[Pogre]

A lot of the reason the US didn't convert completely to the Metric system is because our manufacturing base was so huge at the time- they also had older workers who were totally resistant to learning it- my dad worked for Harley Davidson and I heard comments and debated it with some of the people he would invite to our house- their stance was from total ignorance and, to a point, "USA! USA!" because we're so freaking special, right?

That's funny, sad and true. I remember when I was a kid the general attitude toward the metric system among the gear heads I knew did indeed seem to have a "USA! USA!" component to it.

 

[highfigh]

That's funny, sad and true. I remember when I was a kid the general attitude toward the metric system among the gear heads I knew did indeed seem to have a "USA! USA!" component to it.

One of the idiots that would come over was a total leach- he was putting in his time at H-D by working in the tool room, which basically required him to sit around until someone came to request something. All he did was bitch about the company, saying things like "They're making money off of our backs" and crap like that, "Union this, Union that....". He was waiting for his wife's inheritance, so he could retire early and with all of his pro-union stance, he drove a Toyota pickup. At least it had a 'Buy Union' bumper sticker. Total piss-ant. He, his brother (who was a union representative) and the others were part of what I consider the worst part of unions- it was all about them and what the union could do for them as they tried to do as little as possible but they would bitch about someone making $18/hour (in the early-mid-'70s) by sweeping floors, as if the sweepers were taking money from them. The sweepers were in the same union.

 

[highfigh]

That's funny, sad and true. I remember when I was a kid the general attitude toward the metric system among the gear heads I knew did indeed seem to have a "USA! USA!" component to it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Irv, you know beer wont gets itself!! There's your exercise right there not to mention going out to the stores to purchase your favourite brands and the constant restocking effort of keeping beer chilled in the fridge.

Alas, I don’t drink beer. Or any beverages with alcohol in them. And I don’t do pot or recreational drugs. As one person once asked me at a party, “What do you do?” I told him, “That’s classified.”

 

[Trebdp83]

Alas, I don’t drink beer. Or any beverages with alcohol in them. And I don’t do pot or recreational drugs. As one person once asked me at a party, “What do you do?” I told him, “That’s classified.”

You little ray of sunshine. Just high on life?

 

[Irvrobinson]

You little ray of sunshine. Just high on life?

Actually, I could find the dark side of the sun.

 

[Trell]

A lot of the reason the US didn't convert completely to the Metric system is because our manufacturing base was so huge at the time- they also had older workers who were totally resistant to learning it- my dad worked for Harley Davidson and I heard comments and debated it with some of the people he would invite to our house- their stance was from total ignorance and, to a point, "USA! USA!" because we're so freaking special, right?
...

Americans for sure use some weird units at times. In the early 2000s the US oil industry still used meter*meter*feet for volume, and well info was given given with horizontal coordinates in meters and depth in feet.

 

[JengaHit]

So, the gist of it is enthusiasts want "new blood" to support the hobby so boomers can continue to enjoy it. That sounds like what Count Dracula is looking for. It's not going to happen; instead, technology is soon going to get multi-channel music and movie streaming via iPhone to TV and active wireless speakers for inexpensive, unencumbered, and equipment free entertainment. And, with such convenience, quality, and low cost why would anyone have any interest in what is seen as antique methods for recorded music and movie entertainment when such means does not have any quality to make it compelling. I'll tell you who, nobody. The bottom-line here is why lament over new technology displacing older technology when the new technology better serves the market for recorded music and movie entertainment.

Yeah, the editorial essentially makes arguments that are beside the point: concentrate on and obsess about a niche older market and demand changes in its behavior, all while new demographics are opening new markets from new technologies. It's all well and good if people want to revel in vinyl and tubes--they should have their fun and spend their money the way they want. More power to them. But don't expect that niche to save the industry, to expand and pivot to new consumers and markets who have different financial and living situations. It's up to manufacturers to start adapting to these markets with new products that fit new customers' lifestyles and budgets. Maybe companies like the privately held Lenbrook Group (NAD, Bluesound, PSB) are well-positioned to take advantage of the changing landscape. Their Bluesound Node 2i has been a hit.

 

[Trell]

Yeah, the editorial essentially makes arguments that are beside the point: concentrate on and obsess about a niche older market and demand changes in its behavior, all while new demographics are opening new markets from new technologies. It's all well and good if people want to revel in vinyl and tubes--they should have their fun and spend their money the way they want. More power to them. But don't expect that niche to save the industry, to expand and pivot to new consumers and markets who have different financial and living situations. It's up to manufacturers to start adapting to these markets with new products that fit new customers' lifestyles and budgets. Maybe companies like the privately held Lenbrook Group (NAD, Bluesound, PSB) are well-positioned to take advantage of the changing landscape. Their Bluesound Node 2i has been a hit.

The only person that I personally know that is listening to vinyl is a younger guy (twenties, accepted for PhD program at an excellent university) while the oldies like me have left that medium decades ago. On the other hand I'm the only person that have a 5.2 system, never mind an excellent one.

 

[highfigh]

Americans for sure use some weird units at times. In the early 2000s the US oil industry still used meter*meter*feet for volume, and well info was given given with horizontal coordinates in meters and depth in feet.

Maybe the people measuring the horizontal distance and the depth were each specialists in their fields.........

Maybe they used what they had.

When people don't want to learn something new, that's a bad sign.