Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future?

[prerich]

The future is here: Apple Music's Spatial Audio, which can be enjoyed via a Dolby ATMOS sound bar. It's as the song says, "the times they are a changing". At any rate, the need for high end to get high fidelity is gone. The iPhone now reigns, delivering high quality sound, even from AAC, to inexpensive amplification and speakers via Airplay or Bluetooth.

As an Android guy, I'll never swim in Apple's ecosystem. I have a son that's about 36 years old...he's built a system that's very similar to my own. He loves vinyl way more than I do (I love it but I've moved passed it). Just as audiophile gear is niche, believe it or not, so is Apples ecosystem. Everyone doesn't buy into it. As long as there are choices, there will be differences of opinions.

 

[Marc Manley]

Nice article. I agree mostly or rather, I agree but would add two parts: one, audiophilia has suffered from being a white man's game for a long time. I know as I'm one of the few black folks who'd call themselves an audiophile, or more accurately, an audio enthusiast. Having worked in sales in an audiophile shop in southeast Michigan, I can attest that many black folks feel intimidated when even entering hi-fi shops. I myself recently, when visiting a shop here in SoCal, had the sales person state to me, immediately upon the shop, "Hi. Our systems start at $1,000". It's that kinda 'ish that's gonna discourage black folks from even being curious about hi-fi gear. Two, I think we also need more enthusiast-cum-entrepreneurs. Meaning that many of the brands we have now started as folks who were enthusiasts and then decided to try and make/build something. I think this would be especially helpful in making gear that's actually within the price range of the average Joe or Janet. Little irks me more than when I peruse audiophile mags/blogs and a majority of the advertising is for gear in the 10's if not 100's of thousands of dollars. That just ain't practical.

 

[davidscott]

Thanks for that perspective, Marc.

 

[jhaider]

The future is here: Apple Music's Spatial Audio, which can be enjoyed via a Dolby ATMOS sound bar. It's as the song says, "the times they are a changing". At any rate, the need for high end to get high fidelity is gone. The iPhone now reigns, delivering high quality sound, even from AAC, to inexpensive amplification and speakers via Airplay or Bluetooth.

Your first two clauses were correct. The rest…

A well calibrated immersive system (I.e. 5 to 9 discrete bed channels, 4 to 6 height channels, 3+ subwoofers) is needed maximize fidelity on an Atmos track from Apple Music or Tidal. A soundbar won’t give you what the format is capable of offering.

I take your point on electronics - if you don’t need or want advanced signal processing there’s a lot of perfectly fine stuff out there. However, great loudspeakers are always going to be expensive. They play dual roles: sound equipment and furniture. Fine finishing costs money. You can buy an IKEA sofa or a Florence Knoll, and they serve the same core function while differing greatly in price.

 

[sterling shoote]

Your first two clauses were correct. The rest…

A well calibrated immersive system (I.e. 5 to 9 discrete bed channels, 4 to 6 height channels, 3+ subwoofers) is needed maximize fidelity on an Atmos track from Apple Music or Tidal. A soundbar won’t give you what the format is capable of offering.

I take your point on electronics - if you don’t need or want advanced signal processing there’s a lot of perfectly fine stuff out there. However, great loudspeakers are always going to be expensive. They play dual roles: sound equipment and furniture. Fine finishing costs money. You can buy an IKEA sofa or a Florence Knoll, and they serve the same core function while differing greatly in price.

Everything I said is correct.

 

[jhaider]

Everything I said is correct.

If you really think an “Atmos sound bar” (I presume some unitized structure that “bounces” content around) is an ersatz for a discrete immersive system…no. It’s little different from saying one can “enjoy” records on a 1980s console stereo from Sears. Strictly speaking true, but not the same experience as a nice turntable and phono pre feeding a pair of TAD speakers and 4 good subs.

Same goes for paired ur-HomePods. We have a pair set up in a guest room actually. They’re easy to use (pair with AppleTV or iPhone) and sound notably better than any soundbar known to me save perhaps Sennheiser Ambeo. But can they compare to well calibrated 7.1.4 with multisubs? Not a chance.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If you really think an “Atmos sound bar” (I presume some unitized structure that “bounces” content around) is an ersatz for a discrete immersive system…no. It’s little different from saying one can “enjoy” records on a 1980s console stereo from Sears. Strictly speaking true, but not the same experience as a nice turntable and phono pre feeding a pair of TAD speakers and 4 good subs.

Same goes for paired ur-HomePods. We have a pair set up in a guest room actually. They’re easy to use (pair with AppleTV or iPhone) and sound notably better than any soundbar known to me save perhaps Sennheiser Ambeo. But can they compare to well calibrated 7.1.4 with multisubs? Not a chance.

Soundbars are Fukkin junk. Period.

 

[3db]

Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future? Let me answer the question with another question. Will audiophiles ever believe that there hearing is indeed not infallible and influenced by bias whether they are aware of it or not?

 

[lovinthehd]

Everything I said is correct.

LOL except apple universe sucks.

 

[GaryReg]

Great article Jerry,

I agree with you. Mis-information is a plague which is affecting much more than Audio reviews (as it has done for over 40 years). I remember when Monster Cable came out and the audio dealer was demonstrating with one speaker on these cables and another with 14 gauge speaker wire. He was suprised when I moved the lesser bass speaker into the corner, like the other one was positioned and the bass equalized!

Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
GaryReg

 

[David Harper]

"it is immoral to allow a sucker to keep his money" ; W.C. Fields

 

[JorgeMcneil]

Audiophiles women are as non-existent as women philosophers according to Kant. So let's appreciate every human being instead of referring to gender and screaming about discrimination and calling it equality. And when you have nothing to answer for, you'll talk about feminism, but you'll never say it to your daughter, because she is part of your woman's womb. Why can't the audiophile hobbyist be given to a woman if the world's performers have always been women? Stop devaluing religion and degrading God's creatures. And if you dare to respond, refer to https://firstchurchlove.com and make your argument without making it out to be fact.

 

[Bucknekked]

Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future? Let me answer the question with another question. Will audiophiles ever believe that there hearing is indeed not infallible and influenced by bias whether they are aware of it or not?

Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future? Let me answer the question with another question. Will audiophiles ever believe that there hearing is indeed not infallible and influenced by bias whether they are aware of it or not?

The Golden Ear snobbery is a bane to the hobby as well as the unfounded claims that emanate from such a belief.

Audiophiles women are as non-existent ( i Will make a modification here) as non-existent as female dwarves

I don't know that the lack of women is a problem anyone has ever had a good idea for a remedy. I am not going to touch this problem with a 10 foot pole. I can see a sinking morass of problems on this topic.

I pretty much agree with @gene on the topic, the problem and the outlook. I bring my extended family in to my music room and nearly 100% of them are impressed and want to sit and listen for as long as I'll let them. But, rather than buying in and making a hobby out of it like I did back in the day, my extended family is pretty busy just keeping their heads above water. They don't invest in anything other than phones, earbuds, and streaming music.
They feel they have it covered pretty well. If I had that combo back in the day I wonder if I would have ever ventured forth and invested in big stuff to listen to?

The combo of a pocket phone, earbuds and a streaming service is pretty potent. And very inexpensive.
Maybe we are dinosaurs wandering around looking at homo sapiens.

 

[MrBoat]

Audio made it to the tech boom without the steady diet of science, and without an internet that tends to otherwise unearth every little aspect, of well. . . everything. At least on the consumer side of life. While many publications of the past could include the basic science of it all, and a whole lot of theory, there wasn't but so much that could be included, without being too boring/dry to follow for regular people.

Science did nothing for perpetuating this hobby for me. AI tends to make better speakers and amps, but I don't have the same respect for those who just push the buttons, and then essentially claim the inventions as their own. I mean, there is no shortage of computer programmers. Even when I look at the concepts leading to a design, most designs seem to be trying too hard to find yet another long way around to the same place while trying to be different than the last, computer generated design. Even in some of the other hobbies I follow, some geek will have 3D printed a simple plastic part and the audience acts as if this programmer, had fashioned it by hand, from nothing.

It's just not that remarkable to me anymore. I have seen so much more, done with so much less. Now, tech has made a whole lot of things redundantly, and perfectly. . . imperfect.

 

[highfigh]

Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future? Let me answer the question with another question. Will audiophiles ever believe that there hearing is indeed not infallible and influenced by bias whether they are aware of it or not?

The Golden Ear snobbery is a bane to the hobby as well as the unfounded claims that emanate from such a belief.

Audiophiles women are as non-existent ( i Will make a modification here) as non-existent as female dwarves

I don't know that the lack of women is a problem anyone has ever had a good idea for a remedy. I am not going to touch this problem with a 10 foot pole. I can see a sinking morass of problems on this topic.

I pretty much agree with @gene on the topic, the problem and the outlook. I bring my extended family in to my music room and nearly 100% of them are impressed and want to sit and listen for as long as I'll let them. But, rather than buying in and making a hobby out of it like I did back in the day, my extended family is pretty busy just keeping their heads above water. They don't invest in anything other than phones, earbuds, and streaming music.
They feel they have it covered pretty well. If I had that combo back in the day I wonder if I would have ever ventured forth and invested in big stuff to listen to?

The combo of a pocket phone, earbuds and a streaming service is pretty potent. And very inexpensive.
Maybe we are dinosaurs wandering around looking at homo sapiens.

For women to become interested in great sound quality (for lack of a better term), they would need to care and most just don't but I will say that when I have discussed sound quality with women, the ones who play an instrument at higher than beginner level DO care, but they won't necessarily pay much for it. That's not saying they don't/can't understand sound and/or acoustics, but they don't care enough to shell out a lot of money for it.

I was discussing the sound of an audio-only system with a customer and at one point, his wife walked through the room, saying "You guys are such geeks".

 

[highfigh]

Audio made it to the tech boom without the steady diet of science, and without an internet that tends to otherwise unearth every little aspect, of well. . . everything. At least on the consumer side of life. While many publications of the past could include the basic science of it all, and a whole lot of theory, there wasn't but so much that could be included, without being too boring/dry to follow for regular people.

Science did nothing for perpetuating this hobby for me. AI tends to make better speakers and amps, but I don't have the same respect for those who just push the buttons, and then essentially claim the inventions as their own. I mean, there is no shortage of computer programmers. Even when I look at the concepts leading to a design, most designs seem to be trying too hard to find yet another long way around to the same place while trying to be different than the last, computer generated design. Even in some of the other hobbies I follow, some geek will have 3D printed a simple plastic part and the audience acts as if this programmer, had fashioned it by hand, from nothing.

It's just not that remarkable to me anymore. I have seen so much more, done with so much less. Now, tech has made a whole lot of things redundantly, and perfectly. . . imperfect.

As usual, SIB-KISS has been forgotten by AV designers.

 

[MrBoat]

For women to become interested in great sound quality (for lack of a better term), they would need to care and most just don't but I will say that when I have discussed sound quality with women, the ones who play an instrument at higher than beginner level DO care, but they won't necessarily pay much for it. That's not saying they don't/can't understand sound and/or acoustics, but they don't care enough to shell out a lot of money for it.

I was discussing the sound of an audio-only system with a customer and at one point, his wife walked through the room, saying "You guys are such geeks".

My ex-wife was into my stereo. Even now, 20 something years after our demise, if I have some rock music cranked, she will come sit right in between the speakers and scream every word of the song as loud as she can. I was shocked. She hadn't forgotten.

My second woman was/is a Motown head. Music trivia is how we initially started talking. Once she saw I had gear, it was on, and many bottles of wine have been spent doing that music thing, naming those random tunes and getting swept away for 6-8 hours at a time. It's a great way to spend evenings. What was her words. . . "That sounds gorgeous." She actually turned me on to Linkin Park.

 

[Bucknekked]

My ex-wife was into my stereo. Even now, 20 something years after our demise, if I have some rock music cranked, she will come sit right in between the speakers and scream every word of the song as loud as she can. I was shocked. She hadn't forgotten.

My second woman was/is a Motown head. Music trivia is how we initially started talking. Once she saw I had gear, it was on, and many bottles of wine have been spent doing that music thing, naming those random tunes and getting swept away for 6-8 hours at a time. It's a great way to spend evenings. What was her words. . . "That sounds gorgeous." She actually turned me on to Linkin Park.

just think of how many great times you've had with music playing alongside. Or think of the all the "first times" you heard that really great song and then all the other stuff you can remember about that day because of the song. Good music really helps us enjoy our lives. Not everyone has an equal chance at a great life. But most of us have access to music. Being an audiophile should help us to enjoy the music. Not everyone in the hobby is in it for the tunes. Many are in it for the gear and the one-up-manship it can provide. I love the music and great gear helps me enjoy it even more.

this weekend we will have an early thanksgiving dinner with out of town family. I am already planning the songs I will play in my music room for those that get to come in and listen. Its holiday music in the rest of the house. Music will play a big part of the day hopefully. Maybe someone will catch the vision and want to continue it

 

[MrBoat]

just think of how many great times you've had with music playing alongside. Or think of the all the "first times" you heard that really great song and then all the other stuff you can remember about that day because of the song. Good music really helps us enjoy our lives. Not everyone has an equal chance at a great life. But most of us have access to music. Being an audiophile should help us to enjoy the music. Not everyone in the hobby is in it for the tunes. Many are in it for the gear and the one-up-manship it can provide. I love the music and great gear helps me enjoy it even more.

this weekend we will have an early thanksgiving dinner with out of town family. I am already planning the songs I will play in my music room for those that get to come in and listen. Its holiday music in the rest of the house. Music will play a big part of the day hopefully. Maybe someone will catch the vision and want to continue it

That has kept me going all these years. I will have a couple friends and family over this holiday, and they always ask to hear something.

No danger of me one-upping anyone with what I use mostly, which is DIY stuff. I often forget just how good it really is until someone asks to hear it and I see their reaction. I still have the budget JBLs set up near field and there is something very good with what I landed on as far as bass settings with the subs along with those. I keep meaning to switch back to the main speakers but I get hooked on them again before I get the idea to change back. They are so close that I can feel a good amount of air from the ports.

This kick/bass intro from Steely Dan's Gaslighting Abbie, is gold coming from any system, really, but some 8" woofers near field, with a pair of 12" subs in the room is just too good to ignore.

 

[Bucknekked]

@gene @highfigh @lovinthehd @MrBoat

I have people coming over for an early Thanksgiving dinner and because I do most of the cooking, I thought of this comparison/metaphor for audiophiles and not getting the next generation going in the hobby.

Cooking for others is an expression of love. If you cook for others, you are giving a piece of yourself with the time effort, energy and expense of preparing good food. Everyone that comes and sits at the table enjoys a great home cooked meal. I don't know anyone that would prefer fast food to the experience. There's something about the hand crafted and hand prepared nature that makes it a great social experience.

Sharing audio is similar in nature. If you share music you love, people who come and listen feel that and know that. Listening to great music, picked out and chosen for the audience, adds to that hand crafted experience. I don't know anyone that's come to my music room and listened that didn't prefer it and love it compared to what they usually do. We talk about the stuff it takes to create it and how simple it can be. Everyone nods their heads.

Yet, in cooking, just as in audio, there are few from the succeeding generations who pickup the skills and follow the craft. In my family, everyone loves to eat my food. Very few if any know how to cook worth a darn. The skill is appreciated (just like in audio) but doesn't seem to transfer well. My own mother never learned to cook well precisely because her own mother, my grandmother, could do it. The baton didn't just not get passed, it got refused.

It's not a perfect comparison/metaphor. But I'm cooking this week and it seemed to fit at least a little bit.