Can Audiophiles Embrace Science Over Religion For The Hobby To Have a Future?

[highfigh]

So here is the answer: no, many, cannot.
A very large slice of audiophiles are at least ignorami verging on morons. They know nothing of science while they are surrounded by computers that they use every day in everything.
Being a musician that's worked with high-res digital as well as heard a good bit of it, that is the studio recording you are buying in hi-res.
If you love vinyl, you aren't an audiophile since it's not a true representation of the original recording. If you like myriad distortions and non-linearities, have at it. Do not try to tell me that it's high fidelity. It's not.
20 years ago, I recorded all of the David Bowie, Peter Gabriel and Robert Palmer 12" singles I'd accumulated into 24/96 files. Previously, they'd been on half-track RtR. While the reel sounded really good, the digital sounded exactly like th 12" singles. And, I mean, exactly.
Having bought the DB "Dance" album from HD Tracks, they sound even better than the 12" singles.
About 30 years ago, I bought the Mobile Fidelity release of "Sgt Pepper's". Around the 15th play, it developed a skip on "Eleanor Rigby". I never bought another vinyl album again and have never regretted not doing so.

A stylus will skip for a reason- ALWAYS. Either something settled into and was happy living in the groove, the stylus had something on it, whatever, but it won't just start to skip as long as the tonearm is adjusted properly and the cartridge is well-aligned. Any other opinion is just trying to argue with Physics. Maybe some super-special friction-reducing substance was applied to the LP and it allowed the stylus to slide out.

 

[lovinthehd]

Multichannel, simple and I'm assuming DIY (why would integrators be needed if it's so simple?) don't go together. Most people barely know what these are and do, I doubt they'll be installing their own and that's a really small company- I know stereo stores that do more business in a month.

I cant imagine those that even hire an installer for such simple stuff like this myself let alone rely on "stereo stores".

 

[highfigh]

I cant imagine those that even hire an installer for such simple stuff like this myself let alone rely on "stereo stores".

Everyone who decided that local dealers weren't necessary can thank themselves for the lack of local knowledge/experience/variety. Going back farther, everyone who decided that price was more important than these qualities are at the head of the line WRT who to blame.

Maybe you can't imagine this because you don't deal with hundreds of customers who want things, but wouldn't know where to begin- some can, most can't and some could, but they don't want to. Some couldn't on their best 'tech-savvy' day because it's just not what they know/understand and they're not interested enough to learn about it- they just want it to work. They're often the most difficult to deal with because they don't know what's possible, what's impossible and what is practical. OTOH, some people think they know about this stuff, so they make decisions during or after the installation that crap-cans some or all of it because they didn't bother to say anything to the dealer/installer and then, they get PO'd when something stops working.

Some have the "I pay people to do things for me" attitude and for those of us who can keep those relationships going in a positive direction, it's great but at some point, it can become a large burden because they think they own us and that we'll come running as soon as they call.

Have you ever spoken with someone who has no idea how to use some technology, but not the stuff they really want to use regularly? It requires a lot of mind-reading.

 

[3db]

So here is the answer: no, many, cannot.
A very large slice of audiophiles are at least ignorami verging on morons. They know nothing of science while they are surrounded by computers that they use every day in everything.
Being a musician that's worked with high-res digital as well as heard a good bit of it, that is the studio recording you are buying in hi-res.
If you love vinyl, you aren't an audiophile since it's not a true representation of the original recording. If you like myriad distortions and non-linearities, have at it. Do not try to tell me that it's high fidelity. It's not.
20 years ago, I recorded all of the David Bowie, Peter Gabriel and Robert Palmer 12" singles I'd accumulated into 24/96 files. Previously, they'd been on half-track RtR. While the reel sounded really good, the digital sounded exactly like th 12" singles. And, I mean, exactly.
Having bought the DB "Dance" album from HD Tracks, they sound even better than the 12" singles.
About 30 years ago, I bought the Mobile Fidelity release of "Sgt Pepper's". Around the 15th play, it developed a skip on "Eleanor Rigby". I never bought another vinyl album again and have never regretted not doing so.

Good for you and Im sure glad I dont fall in that narrow minded camp of yours. You may not like vinyl but that doesnt mean its not hifi. One can have hifi and not be audiophile. Go ahead and rush over that cliff with the rest of the audiophile lemmings. Too many bad connetations and beliefs with the term audiophile and you fit the mould perfectly.

 

[3db]

Everyone who decided that local dealers weren't necessary can thank themselves for the lack of local knowledge/experience/variety. Going back farther, everyone who decided that price was more important than these qualities are at the head of the line WRT who to blame.

Maybe you can't imagine this because you don't deal with hundreds of customers who want things, but wouldn't know where to begin- some can, most can't and some could, but they don't want to. Some couldn't on their best 'tech-savvy' day because it's just not what they know/understand and they're not interested enough to learn about it- they just want it to work. They're often the most difficult to deal with because they don't know what's possible, what's impossible and what is practical. OTOH, some people think they know about this stuff, so they make decisions during or after the installation that crap-cans some or all of it because they didn't bother to say anything to the dealer/installer and then, they get PO'd when something stops working.

Some have the "I pay people to do things for me" attitude and for those of us who can keep those relationships going in a positive direction, it's great but at some point, it can become a large burden because they think they own us and that we'll come running as soon as they call.

Have you ever spoken with someone who has no idea how to use some technology, but not the stuff they really want to use regularly? It requires a lot of mind-reading.

I agree. This is a hobby like any other hobby. There's often a steep learning curve associated with hobbies. Take photography as an example. Im dabbling in it and the learning curve is very steep and that factor is preventing me at the moment for learning all the manual modes of my camera. I made a promise to myself that I will but Im still in the grieving process so my concentration abilities are almost .....oh look !!! A squirrel!!! What was I saying??? Oh yeah, my concentration abilities are almost nil.

 

[Trell]

I agree. This is a hobby like any other hobby. There's often a steep learning curve associated with hobbies. Take photography as an example. Im dabbling in it and the learning curve is very steep and that factor is preventing me at the moment for learning all the manual modes of my camera. I made a promise to myself that I will but Im still in the grieving process so my concentration abilities are almost .....oh look !!! A squirrel!!! What was I saying??? Oh yeah, my concentration abilities are almost nil.

Lately my MILC Fujifilm X-T2 is doing duty as a webcamera

 

[highfigh]

I agree. This is a hobby like any other hobby. There's often a steep learning curve associated with hobbies. Take photography as an example. Im dabbling in it and the learning curve is very steep and that factor is preventing me at the moment for learning all the manual modes of my camera. I made a promise to myself that I will but Im still in the grieving process so my concentration abilities are almost .....oh look !!! A squirrel!!! What was I saying??? Oh yeah, my concentration abilities are almost nil.

I look at diving head-first into something after a bad event as if it's a tunnel- eventually, it ends and how long it is depends on how bad the event was. My parents passed in 1997 and 2001- it took a bit to get back into things.

I assume you're doing digital photography- ever do anything with film, beyond point and shoot cameras? Jeez! Not only does the photographer need to learn about cameras, they need to learn about the film, too!

I was into photography until it became more difficult to have good prints made after a local shop closed- I had them enlarge some photos that turned out extremely well but they took on some print development work from another local company (competitor) that seemed as if it was the competitor's way of eliminating the competition by keeping them busy with film while the world (digital) was passing by. Unfortunately, the resolution of affordable digital cameras wasn't remotely good enough to make a decent print at that time, so I lost interest. Now that I'm approaching retirement, I'll be able to do more since printers/paper and cameras are able to compete. I had some scans done of the best shots from a rafting trip and the files for each 35mm slide or negative were in the area of 29Mb. IIRC, even the better pro 35mm cameras were capable of 5Mb, in RAW format.

I got some Ansel Adams books and two of them apply to digital format as well as film but the third only applies to film. Good info. I also used to read Outdoor Photography Magazine and Digital Photo Magazine (sister publications)- those were really good sources of info and they're still operating.

Outdoor Photographer Magazine

The ultimate photographer's guide to nature, wildlife, travel and adventure sports photography, featuring the work of renown artists.

www.outdoorphotographer.com

Digital Photo

Launched in June 1997, Digital Photo magazine is your #1 guide for better digital photography. Available online and on newsstands everywhere.

www.dpmag.com

 

[Eppie]

Just how many Capitalist countries are in this world besides the United States? Capitalism I tell you. Why take a metric when you can I have a Gallon. Guess that's why the United States is the richest nation in the world cause We don't give a metrics.

Yes, because 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards in a mile is much easier to work with than 1,000 meters in a kilometer, and 12 inches in a foot and 36 inches in a yard is much easier to work with than 100 centimeters in a meter. You guys are really progressive down there.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Vinyl is vinyl and is there to be enjoyed. ...

Just like old cars and other things old, just enjoy them.

 

[Irvrobinson]

This editorial is completely incorrect when it says you can have "unlimited access to nearly every recording ever made" with Amazon HD Unlimited. I'm an Amazon HD subscriber, and for classical music Amazon's catalog is not very satisfying. A lot of older, inferior, analog recordings are pushed at you, and if you hunt for more modern digital recordings with clever search predicates you find *many* selections available on CD simply aren't available.

As for MQA, I recommend reading this thread:

MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

EDIT: UPDATED with most current information. Introduction MQA is a proprietary music compression solution that uses the FLAC container. It requires a license fee for manufacturers to implement it, and due to the lack of transparency from MQA, there has been relatively little conclusive...

www.audiosciencereview.com

MQA is not a technology in the music consumer's best interest.

I'd rate this editorial a C- at best.

 

[Eppie]

This editorial is completely incorrect when it says you can have "unlimited access to nearly every recording ever made" with Amazon HD Unlimited. I'm an Amazon HD subscriber, and for classical music Amazon's catalog is not very satisfying. A lot of older, inferior, analog recordings are pushed at you, and if you hunt for more modern digital recordings with clever search predicates you find *many* selections available on CD simply aren't available.

As for MQA, I recommend reading this thread:

MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

EDIT: UPDATED with most current information. Introduction MQA is a proprietary music compression solution that uses the FLAC container. It requires a license fee for manufacturers to implement it, and due to the lack of transparency from MQA, there has been relatively little conclusive...

www.audiosciencereview.com

MQA is not a technology in the music consumer's best interest.

I'd rate this editorial a C- at best.

See my post here: MQA streaming detailed analysis --- and it's not good

 

[3db]

This editorial is completely incorrect when it says you can have "unlimited access to nearly every recording ever made" with Amazon HD Unlimited. I'm an Amazon HD subscriber, and for classical music Amazon's catalog is not very satisfying. A lot of older, inferior, analog recordings are pushed at you, and if you hunt for more modern digital recordings with clever search predicates you find *many* selections available on CD simply aren't available.

As for MQA, I recommend reading this thread:

MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

EDIT: UPDATED with most current information. Introduction MQA is a proprietary music compression solution that uses the FLAC container. It requires a license fee for manufacturers to implement it, and due to the lack of transparency from MQA, there has been relatively little conclusive...

www.audiosciencereview.com

MQA is not a technology in the music consumer's best interest.

I'd rate this editorial a C- at best.

I have blues albums not found digitally either.

 

[shadyJ]

This editorial is completely incorrect when it says you can have "unlimited access to nearly every recording ever made" with Amazon HD Unlimited. I'm an Amazon HD subscriber, and for classical music Amazon's catalog is not very satisfying. A lot of older, inferior, analog recordings are pushed at you, and if you hunt for more modern digital recordings with clever search predicates you find *many* selections available on CD simply aren't available.

As for MQA, I recommend reading this thread:

MQA Deep Dive - I published music on tidal to test MQA

EDIT: UPDATED with most current information. Introduction MQA is a proprietary music compression solution that uses the FLAC container. It requires a license fee for manufacturers to implement it, and due to the lack of transparency from MQA, there has been relatively little conclusive...

www.audiosciencereview.com

MQA is not a technology in the music consumer's best interest.

I'd rate this editorial a C- at best.

You might try Qobuz for classical music streaming in high resolution.

 

[Gmoney]

Yes, because 5,280 ft or 1,760 yards in a mile is much easier to work with than 1,000 meters in a kilometer, and 12 inches in a foot and 36 inches in a yard is much easier to work with than 100 centimeters in a meter. You guys are really progressive down there.

It a Joke! the Metric system is better mathematically speaking. E equals two MC Square!

 

[Eppie]

It a Joke! the Metric system is better mathematically speaking. E equals two MC Square!

Hey, one good joke deserves another.

 

[lovinthehd]

Everyone who decided that local dealers weren't necessary can thank themselves for the lack of local knowledge/experience/variety. Going back farther, everyone who decided that price was more important than these qualities are at the head of the line WRT who to blame.

Maybe you can't imagine this because you don't deal with hundreds of customers who want things, but wouldn't know where to begin- some can, most can't and some could, but they don't want to. Some couldn't on their best 'tech-savvy' day because it's just not what they know/understand and they're not interested enough to learn about it- they just want it to work. They're often the most difficult to deal with because they don't know what's possible, what's impossible and what is practical. OTOH, some people think they know about this stuff, so they make decisions during or after the installation that crap-cans some or all of it because they didn't bother to say anything to the dealer/installer and then, they get PO'd when something stops working.

Some have the "I pay people to do things for me" attitude and for those of us who can keep those relationships going in a positive direction, it's great but at some point, it can become a large burden because they think they own us and that we'll come running as soon as they call.

Have you ever spoken with someone who has no idea how to use some technology, but not the stuff they really want to use regularly? It requires a lot of mind-reading.

This is the type of consumer who should stay away from vinyl perhaps, since it's so involved to do well.

 

[Irvrobinson]

You might try Qobuz for classical music streaming in high resolution.

I know, but I'm getting fed up with the number of subscriptions we have for audio and video, and the cost involved. Fortunately, my CD collection is broad enough that all I have to do is get my old butt off the sofa and root around in the closet I keep the CDs in. An app on an iPad spoils a person.

 

[3db]

This is the type of consumer who should stay away from vinyl perhaps, since it's so involved to do well.

Not really. If the interest really hooks them, then they might start themselves on a learning curve. It really depends on the individual

 

[lovinthehd]

Not really. If the interest really hooks them, then they might start themselves on a learning curve. It really depends on the individual

I was being a bit facetious, but for the total idiot who just wants to buy something and push a button to play I still don't think vinyl is a good option. Now if they want to learn, be hands-on etc, sure.

 

[lovinthehd]

I know, but I'm getting fed up with the number of subscriptions we have for audio and video, and the cost involved. Fortunately, my CD collection is broad enough that all I have to do is get my old butt off the sofa and root around in the closet I keep the CDs in. An app on an iPad spoils a person.

Rip those cds and you'll not have to get the butt off the couch afterwards....