MinusTheBear Audioholic Ninja Aug 20, 2006 3,559 0 113 Mar 30, 2013 #121 Don't mind my typo in my last post. You can't have "a peak in a dip". It's a typo. Replace in with and. LOL.
Don't mind my typo in my last post. You can't have "a peak in a dip". It's a typo. Replace in with and. LOL.
Adam Audioholic Jedi Jul 5, 2006 32,066 0 113 Tucson, Arizona Mar 30, 2013 #122 MinusTheBear said: Don't mind my typo in my last post. You can't have "a peak in a dip". It's a typo. Replace in with and. LOL. Click to expand... Gene said that he increased the edit time to six hours - so you can fix it if you want. Reactions: monkish54
MinusTheBear said: Don't mind my typo in my last post. You can't have "a peak in a dip". It's a typo. Replace in with and. LOL. Click to expand... Gene said that he increased the edit time to six hours - so you can fix it if you want.
monkish54 Audioholic General Oct 18, 2011 1,258 0 113 Los Angeles, CA Mar 30, 2013 #123 1500 Amplifier | Axiom Audio Is this what Axiom got out of the deal, or was this around before? I wonder why Bryston changed the cone on the Axiom drivers but left the XO frequency the same. That doesn't make much sense to me. *shrugs*
1500 Amplifier | Axiom Audio Is this what Axiom got out of the deal, or was this around before? I wonder why Bryston changed the cone on the Axiom drivers but left the XO frequency the same. That doesn't make much sense to me. *shrugs*
MinusTheBear Audioholic Ninja Aug 20, 2006 3,559 0 113 Mar 30, 2013 #124 Axiom class D amps have been out for many years and they have always been built in house by them. They revamped the amps in the last year or so and it was done completely by a different engineer than the unit Gene reviewed a few years back. Reactions: monkish54
Axiom class D amps have been out for many years and they have always been built in house by them. They revamped the amps in the last year or so and it was done completely by a different engineer than the unit Gene reviewed a few years back.
gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic Aug 28, 2011 313 0 28 Ohio Mar 30, 2013 #125 I wonder if the Axiom 1500 amp is better than the $700 cheaper Emotiva Reference line? The Axioms weight half of what the Emo amps weight and the Axiom puts out 325wpc and Emotiva does 600wpc. Emotiva XPA-2 2x 300wpc at 8ohms $799.......Axiom 1500 2x 325wpc at 8ohms $2,380. Wonder if Bryston gave them any help with these new amps, hence the higher asking price? Reactions: ahblaza
I wonder if the Axiom 1500 amp is better than the $700 cheaper Emotiva Reference line? The Axioms weight half of what the Emo amps weight and the Axiom puts out 325wpc and Emotiva does 600wpc. Emotiva XPA-2 2x 300wpc at 8ohms $799.......Axiom 1500 2x 325wpc at 8ohms $2,380. Wonder if Bryston gave them any help with these new amps, hence the higher asking price?
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Jun 5, 2013 #126 Ok gents, The Soundstage NRC test results are in for the Model T SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Bryston Model T Loudspeakers Their in depth review.. SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | SoundStageHiFi.com Equipment Reviews I guess I was right to hold off in judging this speaker prematurely in that this speaker is a far cry from a slightly modified version of Axiom's M80. Last edited: Jun 5, 2013 Reactions: monkish54 and PENG
Ok gents, The Soundstage NRC test results are in for the Model T SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Bryston Model T Loudspeakers Their in depth review.. SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | SoundStageHiFi.com Equipment Reviews I guess I was right to hold off in judging this speaker prematurely in that this speaker is a far cry from a slightly modified version of Axiom's M80.
P PENG Audioholic Slumlord Oct 23, 2004 19,797 0 113 Ontario Jun 6, 2013 #127 3db said: Ok gents, The Soundstage NRC test results are in for the Model T SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Bryston Model T Loudspeakers Their in depth review.. SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | SoundStageHiFi.com Equipment Reviews I guess I was right to hold off in judging this speaker prematurely in that this speaker is a far cry from a slightly modified version of Axiom's M80. Click to expand... The freq response, 35 to 15,000 within 5 dB, and closer to within 3 to 3.5 dB for the most part is definitely better than the newest biggest Axiom model. Reactions: monkish54
3db said: Ok gents, The Soundstage NRC test results are in for the Model T SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Bryston Model T Loudspeakers Their in depth review.. SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | SoundStageHiFi.com Equipment Reviews I guess I was right to hold off in judging this speaker prematurely in that this speaker is a far cry from a slightly modified version of Axiom's M80. Click to expand... The freq response, 35 to 15,000 within 5 dB, and closer to within 3 to 3.5 dB for the most part is definitely better than the newest biggest Axiom model.
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Jun 6, 2013 #128 3db said: Ok gents, The Soundstage NRC test results are in for the Model T SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Bryston Model T Loudspeakers Their in depth review.. SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | SoundStageHiFi.com Equipment Reviews I guess I was right to hold off in judging this speaker prematurely in that this speaker is a far cry from a slightly modified version of Axiom's M80. Click to expand... Bryston claims 91dB Sensitivity at 1 watt/meter. NRC measured 86.5dB 1 watt/meter that's a 4.5dB difference! Too bad they don't measure vertically off-axis to see how the dual tweeters integrate. Also, too bad the NRC is still doing simplistic sine-sweep harmonic distortion tests. It's nearly impossible to show speaker misbehavior with these type of distortion tests. Last edited: Jun 6, 2013 Reactions: ahblaza and monkish54
3db said: Ok gents, The Soundstage NRC test results are in for the Model T SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Bryston Model T Loudspeakers Their in depth review.. SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com | SoundStageHiFi.com Equipment Reviews I guess I was right to hold off in judging this speaker prematurely in that this speaker is a far cry from a slightly modified version of Axiom's M80. Click to expand... Bryston claims 91dB Sensitivity at 1 watt/meter. NRC measured 86.5dB 1 watt/meter that's a 4.5dB difference! Too bad they don't measure vertically off-axis to see how the dual tweeters integrate. Also, too bad the NRC is still doing simplistic sine-sweep harmonic distortion tests. It's nearly impossible to show speaker misbehavior with these type of distortion tests.
cpp Audioholic Ninja Dec 13, 2005 3,859 0 83 73 Plantation Bay, Ormond Beach and Ocala Fl Jun 6, 2013 #129 gene said: Bryston claims 91dB Sensitivity at 1 watt/meter. NRC measured 86.5dB 1 watt/meter that's a 4.5dB difference! Too bad they don't measure vertically off-axis to see how the dual tweeters integrate. Also, too bad the NRC is still doing simplistic sine-sweep harmonic distortion tests. It's nearly impossible to show speaker misbehavior with these type of distortion tests. Click to expand... I see a lot of these test are "smoke and mirror" test.
gene said: Bryston claims 91dB Sensitivity at 1 watt/meter. NRC measured 86.5dB 1 watt/meter that's a 4.5dB difference! Too bad they don't measure vertically off-axis to see how the dual tweeters integrate. Also, too bad the NRC is still doing simplistic sine-sweep harmonic distortion tests. It's nearly impossible to show speaker misbehavior with these type of distortion tests. Click to expand... I see a lot of these test are "smoke and mirror" test.
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Jun 7, 2013 #130 cpp said: I see a lot of these test are "smoke and mirror" test. Click to expand... I would say that many of them are unrevealing of real world issues. The NRC testing methodology is often very kind to speakers that may or may not have design issues and/or limitations. Reactions: ahblaza
cpp said: I see a lot of these test are "smoke and mirror" test. Click to expand... I would say that many of them are unrevealing of real world issues. The NRC testing methodology is often very kind to speakers that may or may not have design issues and/or limitations.
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Jun 7, 2013 #131 gene said: I would say that many of them are unrevealing of real world issues. The NRC testing methodology is often very kind to speakers that may or may not have design issues and/or limitations. Click to expand... I find it completely baffling how you used to compliment Soundstage's methodology and now have flipped 180 degrees. There testing methodology hasn't changed to make it "often very kind" to speakers.
gene said: I would say that many of them are unrevealing of real world issues. The NRC testing methodology is often very kind to speakers that may or may not have design issues and/or limitations. Click to expand... I find it completely baffling how you used to compliment Soundstage's methodology and now have flipped 180 degrees. There testing methodology hasn't changed to make it "often very kind" to speakers.
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Jun 7, 2013 #132 cpp said: I see a lot of these test are "smoke and mirror" test. Click to expand... Smoke and Mirrors? Really? I'm so happy you are a so called expert with no subject bias by evaluating audio tests from reading a moderators opinions . Good go Einstein. No more smoke n mirrors testing than any other site including Audioholics.
cpp said: I see a lot of these test are "smoke and mirror" test. Click to expand... Smoke and Mirrors? Really? I'm so happy you are a so called expert with no subject bias by evaluating audio tests from reading a moderators opinions . Good go Einstein. No more smoke n mirrors testing than any other site including Audioholics.
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Jun 7, 2013 #133 3db said: I find it completely baffling how you used to compliment Soundstage's methodology and now have flipped 180 degrees. There testing methodology hasn't changed to make it "often very kind" to speakers. Click to expand... I commend any magazine that publishes measurements but it doesn't mean I agree with them all or think they provide enough detail to make a true assessment of product performance. I've written about the limitations of using sine-sweep harmonic distortion tests for speakers in many articles over the last couple of years. I've also spoken to Dr. Floyd Toole on this very topic. If you read my loudspeaker articles you would see this. This is also why I invested so many resources in developing our loudspeaker measurement protocol which helps to address some of my concerns but even that is still far from perfect. Perhaps do a little more reading of our tech articles before putting words in my mouth or making assumptions. Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
3db said: I find it completely baffling how you used to compliment Soundstage's methodology and now have flipped 180 degrees. There testing methodology hasn't changed to make it "often very kind" to speakers. Click to expand... I commend any magazine that publishes measurements but it doesn't mean I agree with them all or think they provide enough detail to make a true assessment of product performance. I've written about the limitations of using sine-sweep harmonic distortion tests for speakers in many articles over the last couple of years. I've also spoken to Dr. Floyd Toole on this very topic. If you read my loudspeaker articles you would see this. This is also why I invested so many resources in developing our loudspeaker measurement protocol which helps to address some of my concerns but even that is still far from perfect. Perhaps do a little more reading of our tech articles before putting words in my mouth or making assumptions.
cpp Audioholic Ninja Dec 13, 2005 3,859 0 83 73 Plantation Bay, Ormond Beach and Ocala Fl Jun 7, 2013 #134 3db said: Smoke and Mirrors? Really? I'm so happy you are a so called expert with no subject bias by evaluating audio tests from reading a moderators opinions . Good go Einstein. No more smoke n mirrors testing than any other site including Audioholics. Click to expand... Hey You Wish You were Einstein, and I never said I was a so called expert. Opinions are like ******** and we all got them and that includes people that post to a thread. And PS: hey Einstein can you prove the data on the Bryston speakers are not slanted in their favor ( smoke and mirrors) Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
3db said: Smoke and Mirrors? Really? I'm so happy you are a so called expert with no subject bias by evaluating audio tests from reading a moderators opinions . Good go Einstein. No more smoke n mirrors testing than any other site including Audioholics. Click to expand... Hey You Wish You were Einstein, and I never said I was a so called expert. Opinions are like ******** and we all got them and that includes people that post to a thread. And PS: hey Einstein can you prove the data on the Bryston speakers are not slanted in their favor ( smoke and mirrors)
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Jun 7, 2013 #135 Recommended Reading As you can see, I've been quite vocal about loudspeaker distortion measurement for some time: Loudspeaker Measurements Standard: Our Procedure for Objectively Analyzing Speaker Performance | Audioholics Loudspeaker Sensitivity Specifications & Measurements Explained | Audioholics Identifying Legitimately High Fidelity Loudspeakers: Myths & Facts about Crossovers | Audioholics Audio Measurements: The Useful vs. the Bogus in Consumer Audio | Audioholics The Insanity of Marketing Disguised as Science in Loudspeakers | Audioholics
Recommended Reading As you can see, I've been quite vocal about loudspeaker distortion measurement for some time: Loudspeaker Measurements Standard: Our Procedure for Objectively Analyzing Speaker Performance | Audioholics Loudspeaker Sensitivity Specifications & Measurements Explained | Audioholics Identifying Legitimately High Fidelity Loudspeakers: Myths & Facts about Crossovers | Audioholics Audio Measurements: The Useful vs. the Bogus in Consumer Audio | Audioholics The Insanity of Marketing Disguised as Science in Loudspeakers | Audioholics
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Jun 7, 2013 #136 cpp said: Hey You Wish You were Einstein, and I never said I was a so called expert. Opinions are like ******** and we all got them and that includes people that post to a thread. And PS: hey Einstein can you prove the data on the Bryston speakers are not slanted in their favor ( smoke and mirrors) Click to expand... No, I don't wish to be Einstein. There is no affiliation with Soundstage and Bryston. They don't have a store front associated with their page unlike others so there is no reason for them to slant tests in their favour. I would like you to back up this statement but I know you will fall on flat your face for trying so I'll save you the embarrassment.
cpp said: Hey You Wish You were Einstein, and I never said I was a so called expert. Opinions are like ******** and we all got them and that includes people that post to a thread. And PS: hey Einstein can you prove the data on the Bryston speakers are not slanted in their favor ( smoke and mirrors) Click to expand... No, I don't wish to be Einstein. There is no affiliation with Soundstage and Bryston. They don't have a store front associated with their page unlike others so there is no reason for them to slant tests in their favour. I would like you to back up this statement but I know you will fall on flat your face for trying so I'll save you the embarrassment.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Jun 7, 2013 #137 First, I have a feeling the Bryston speakers will sound very good or even great. And so will the Axiom speakers. But I still think the fact that it is made by Axiom will hurt the sales. If it were made by PSB, it would have been better IMO. Bryston should have partnered with PSB IMO.
First, I have a feeling the Bryston speakers will sound very good or even great. And so will the Axiom speakers. But I still think the fact that it is made by Axiom will hurt the sales. If it were made by PSB, it would have been better IMO. Bryston should have partnered with PSB IMO.
billy p Audioholic Ninja Apr 14, 2006 3,698 0 113 Jun 7, 2013 #138 PSB is already partnered with NAD.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,057 0 113 Jun 7, 2013 #139 billy p said: PSB is already partnered with NAD. Click to expand... True, but is it EXCLUSIVE? We know ATI makes amps for MOST amp companies in North America, including some models for Mark Levinson, JBL Synthesis, Cary Audio, Theta, and others. So I see no reason why PSB couldn't make speakers for Bryston with a Bryston label (and specification).
billy p said: PSB is already partnered with NAD. Click to expand... True, but is it EXCLUSIVE? We know ATI makes amps for MOST amp companies in North America, including some models for Mark Levinson, JBL Synthesis, Cary Audio, Theta, and others. So I see no reason why PSB couldn't make speakers for Bryston with a Bryston label (and specification).
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,486 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Jun 7, 2013 #140 I posted the Soundstage measurements and description to show that these speakers are more than slightly modified Axiom M80s. They are a different speaker with different drivers and different cabinet. That was my point. I'm not stating nor am I vouching that they are worth their asking price. My gut feels tells me no. I apologize to you Gene if you think I implied that Audioholics used smoke and mirror testing. That was not the point I wanted to convey. I wanted to convey the point that other sites publish their test methodologies as well but yet its Soundtsage that gets wrongly accused for covertly trying to design their tests to promote a particular product. Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
I posted the Soundstage measurements and description to show that these speakers are more than slightly modified Axiom M80s. They are a different speaker with different drivers and different cabinet. That was my point. I'm not stating nor am I vouching that they are worth their asking price. My gut feels tells me no. I apologize to you Gene if you think I implied that Audioholics used smoke and mirror testing. That was not the point I wanted to convey. I wanted to convey the point that other sites publish their test methodologies as well but yet its Soundtsage that gets wrongly accused for covertly trying to design their tests to promote a particular product.
