blown tweeters

[lsiberian]

just cemented my assumption of who and what you are,....:"PURE CLOWN", A LONELY ONE AT THAT.dont message me anymore, I don't want to hear from you find a lonely hearts chat room is my advice to you clownboy

Shouldn't you be at school? Does someone need to call the truancy officer in your town?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Shouldn't you be at school? Does someone need to call the truancy officer in your town?

Other than ask a concerning question, about turning up the volume all of the way, I'm not sure what the OP has done to deserve this vituperation. I think there is a distinct possibility the tweeters blew from abuse, but even that doesn't warrant (IMO) this insult slinging.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It wouldn't matter if it was 20 watt receiver or a 150 watt receiver, you'll smoke the tweeters.

I don't think the tweeters would blow if the AVR transiently clipped at 20W because I don't think that's not enough power to thermally damage the tweeters.

Unless, like TLS Guy say, those Klipsch have crappy tweeters.

 

[markw]

Other than ask a concerning question, about turning up the volume all of the way, I'm not sure what the OP has done to deserve this vituperation. I think there is a distinct possibility the tweeters blew from abuse, but even that doesn't warrant (IMO) this insult slinging.

True, but opening three, count 'em, THREE threads on the exact same subject while ignoring all the wise advice of several well seasoned posters sort of does open him up to a bit of ridicule.

 

[Irvrobinson]

True, but opening three, count 'em, THREE threads on the exact same subject while ignoring all the wise advice of several well seasoned posters sort of does open him up to a bit of ridicule.

Sorry, I didn't notice the other threads. Nonetheless, you guys are getting a little nasty in your old age.

 

[fmw]

if I turn the dam receiver wide open to full volume, then its my understanding that the speakers are only receiving 125 watts, Yet they are suppose to handle 150 watts,!!!??????? can you explain this to me please

Yes. If you turn the volume up completely you will dissipate far more than 125 watts. The power rating is based on a distortion level. That rating is a human decision, not a law of physics. At full volume the amplifier will clip, distort the sound and cause the speaker to dissipate much more power than the power rating. The amplifier should have a protection circuit that shuts it down if that happens. However it could take longer than it takes to fry the speaker's voice coil.

 

[nicknewbie]

well,....so far so good....I got the new klipsch RP-280F speakers hooked up and wow
what a difference between them and the RF-82's...The tweeters in the 280's are seriously 100% sweeter than in the RF -82's...I am super impressed so far....I did myself a favor I think and set the max volume at 80....I pushed it to 75 already and no problem other than some distortion coming from my sub or at least that's where it sounded like it was coming from...thank you guys for all your input

 

[Seth=L]

well,....so far so good....I got the new klipsch RP-280F speakers hooked up and wow
what a difference between them and the RF-82's...The tweeters in the 280's are seriously 100% sweeter than in the RF -82's...I am super impressed so far....

That's nice to know. I've been curious about the Premiere line myself.

I did myself a favor I think and set the max volume at 80....

Good idea. If you don't have the self control, then set limits for yourself.

I pushed it to 75 already and no problem other than some distortion coming from my sub or at least that's where it sounded like it was coming from...thank you guys for all your input

What subwoofer is this?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, definitely keep that volume to a SENSIBLE level for both your EARS and the speakers.

 

[PENG]

It goes to 100 max volume and I did have it at 90 when the tweeters kicked the bucket......cant understand why they put max volume at 100 , BUT you are not to go there.......Doesn't make much sense to me AT ALL

For Denon, their newer models, typically go from 0-98, page 173 of the manual confirms this is the case for the X4100W.

If the tweeters kicked the bucket when you had it at 90, that woiuld be +10 in the -79.5 to +18 scale, i,e ., 10 dB above reference. Depending on the program material, at that volume level the X4100W could quite possibly be at or exceed it's rated output.

If you do the same with the RP-280 when listening to highly compressed rock music, you may blow their tweeters too sooner or later, or sooner than later..

 

[mtrycrafts]

if I turn the dam receiver wide open to full volume, then its my understanding that the speakers are only receiving 125 watts, Yet they are suppose to handle 150 watts,!!!??????? can you explain this to me please

Firstly, tweeters in residential speakers are rated about 10 watts. That 150 watt mostly apply to your low frequency driver and less so to the mids.
Then, if you clip the amp output, your amp is on its way to 300 watts at full clipping.
Sounds like you are driving the speakers beyond its limits, certainly the tweeter's limit; it blew.

 

[PENG]

Even 80 is very loud if you listen to that on a continuous basis and sitting within 10-15 ft in a small to medium size room. You told us you blew the tweeters when you had the volume at 90, now please tell us what SPL (use C weighting) are you getting at your sitting position when listening at volume 80.

One more point, I am not sure if it has been covered in the earlier posts, the crossover settings. Those Klipsch have 2X8" woofers so I am sure the Denon would have set them to large. I highly recommend you set them to "Small" and set crossover to 80 Hz. That should help the Denon operate a little cooler and stay a little further below its clipping point.

 

[nicknewbie]

wow,....I asked klipsch what to set the ssover at and they said 40, I asked tech support at svs and they said 60 and now you are telling me 80.....I have it at 60 now and the sub at 120, I pushed it really hard today up to 80 on the volume and no problems, I do have the fronts set to small, and at 80 on the volume the svs-2000 had the whole room shaking.....It will be hard to keep the limiter at 80 but I will do my bestsome people have a heavy foot I have a heavy hand lol

 

[KenM10759]

I find this whole thing just incredible, and hilarious....at the same time sad. Damage to one's ears is cumulative, and PERMANENT.

If one is going to give up their hearing (high frequency range goes first), please do it playing high quality music on a high quality system. If it's going to be the last thing you hear, it deserves to be GOOD.

 

[PENG]

wow,....I asked klipsch what to set the ssover at and they said 40, I asked tech support at svs and they said 60 and now you are telling me 80.....I have it at 60 now and the sub at 120, I pushed it really hard today up to 80 on the volume and no problems, I do have the fronts set to small, and at 80 on the volume the svs-2000 had the whole room shaking.....It will be hard to keep the limiter at 80 but I will do my bestsome people have a heavy foot I have a heavy hand lol

If you listen to classical or jazz type of music and listen at 75 to 80 dB average from 10-15 ft you can even set the Klipsch to "Large" and not use the subwoofer.

If you do listen with the subwoofer, 60 or 80 Hz are good. If the use is mostly for movies, say >75/25%, I do recommend 80 Hz. My front speakers are also quite bass capable but after trying 40, 60, 80 and many measurements taken, graphs plotted, I concluded 80 Hz works best.

As they say, YMMV but given that you have a mid range AVR without an amp and you seem to enjoy cranking them up loud, you really could benefit from setting crossover to 80 Hz. Try it, and let us know if the bass suffer. I think the bass may even improve due to less chance for the bass to interfere among one another. Don't forget the 4100 has Audyssey Platinum, that should have no trouble integrating the sub RP-280F nicely but you do have to follow instructions to the letter.

Do you have a SPL meter? As Ken said, hearing damage is permanent so be very careful if you want to enjoy music and movies for a long time.

Just check, looks like the RS analog meter is not available new any more.

http://www.amazon.com/Realistic-33-2050-Sound-Level-Meter/dp/B003SRFPVQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1449320388&sr=8-4&keywords=radio+shack+sound+meter

 

[crossedover]

wow,....I asked klipsch what to set the ssover at and they said 40, I asked tech support at svs and they said 60 and now you are telling me 80.....I have it at 60 now and the sub at 120, I pushed it really hard today up to 80 on the volume and no problems, I do have the fronts set to small, and at 80 on the volume the svs-2000 had the whole room shaking.....It will be hard to keep the limiter at 80 but I will do my bestsome people have a heavy foot I have a heavy hand lol

As suggested set the crossover to 80hz and all speakers to small. What sub/s are you pushing to their limits? There is more than enough reading here at AH to get you started on proper setup and listening. If you continue down the insane spl road that you seem to want, be prepared to spend some money on gear that was meant for your goal (again read some of the articles and the industry specs for play back) or else time and money repairing and replacing drivers and amps. Here is a snippet of the THX reference levels explained, notice what peak levels are not sustained

What does ‘Reference Level’ mean for home theater design?
Reference level means two things for home theater design:

1. Speakers and amplifiers must be capable of 105dB peaks

If the playback chain is calibrated to produce 85dB for a -20dB signal at the listening position then the speakers and amplifiers could be asked to produce 105dB for a 0dB signal. It is a challenging proposition for an audio system to reproduce this level cleanly, without dynamic compression and to be able to do so reliably.

2. Subwoofers must be capable of 115dB peaks

The low frequency effects channel is handled slightly differently and has a 10dB boost relative to the other channels. The maximum SPL that subwoofers could be asked to reproduce from the low frequency effects track is therefore 115dB at the listening position. In reality the situation is nearly always worse because the subwoofer must additionally reproduce bass managed* content from other channels. These challenges mean that multiple large subwoofers are typically needed to be able to properly reproduce the soundtrack as the director intended.

* Bass managed content is that from other speaker channels that has been diverted to the subwoofer. In home audio video receivers (AVRs) and pre-processors this is done by setting the speakers to small in the bass management menu and specifying a crossover frequency. With surround speakers, for example, an 80Hz crossover is typically used. This means that any content in the surround channels under 80Hz is essentially diverted to the subwoofer. For 5 bass managed speakers an additional 6dB and for 7 bass managed speakers an additional 8dB of output may be required from the subwoofer channel.


This is an example of target setup, where are you right now in comparison?

 

[KEW]

wow,....I asked klipsch what to set the ssover at and they said 40.

You've always got to consider who is answering the question.
Klipsch is not going to tell you to avoid using the bass from their speakers because many people would interpret that as saying their speakers can't play bass well.
Your interest is in balancing the resources you have available (sub, AVR, speakers) so as to get the best balance of pulling from all resources at a level which does not over-tax any one component. So we want you to offload the power from the AVR to the sub's amp. This is also a safety measure because a well designed sub's amp and driver are designed to be pretty much idiot proof (SVS right?) - the amp is designed for that specific sub and will limit power before it starts to do bad things. AVR manufacturers do not have the luxury of knowing which speakers will be connected to it, so it is up to you to listen for clipping distortion if the amp is being pushed too hard. If this is what happened, you were likely not real happy with the quality of the sound before the tweeters quit working. I suspect that the difference in the sound between the 82ii and the 280 is much more slight than you are thinking because you were hearing the 82's with clipping and the 280's without.

If it was your AVR clipping, then Klipsch was right, you need a more powerful amp. On theother hand, there is something to be said for having tweeters that blow before your ears (and your Denon will drive the Klipsch loud enough to lose your hearing on its own).

One thing you might consider is getting a pair of active speakers. I don't know if Crutchfield has any. These speakers are fed line-level input (essentially RCA) which passes through the crossover, then goes to amps exclusive to each driver. Like a sub (and assuming a quality manufacturer), the amps are designed specifically for the speaker. I was pushing my Focal pro-audio active monitors to their limit and they shut off (about 4 seconds between the right and the left shutting off). I turned them off, gave them about 10 minutes (in case they needed to cool down) and they were as good as new!
Subs can get away with limiting the output without interrupting the music because our ears are not so sensitive to low frequencies, so your sub may reach its limit and you might not notice!

 

[crossedover]

if I turn the dam receiver wide open to full volume, then its my understanding that the speakers are only receiving 125 watts, Yet they are suppose to handle 150 watts,!!!??????? can you explain this to me please

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