Best speakers for classical music

[GranteedEV]

Are you not terrified of dropping the KEFs on the ground by accident?

 

[DS-21]

Those KEF Reference bookshelves are just so beautiful...

 

[cpp]

Are you not terrified of dropping the KEFs on the ground by accident?

I guess ya can spend $16,000 on a pair of speakers for a speaker holder upper.

 

[Beatmatcher247]

You also probably want to provide for amplification that has plenty of headroom. Having excess clean power on tap provides for keeping all of the different instrument sections separated. If you underpower the best speakers in the world when the music gets busy they won't keep it from sounding like a mottled mess.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are you not terrified of dropping the KEFs on the ground by accident?

How?

They are sitting on top of 1/2 inch thick glass! The KEFs are about 28lbs each.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those KEF Reference bookshelves are just so beautiful...

Thanks.

They look great in pictures, but in person they look just beautiful.

The high-gloss finish is absolutely amazing. It is so shiny it looks like a mirror.

FYI, the high gloss finish is actually a $250 premium for each speaker on top of the standard satin finish for the bookshelf speakers. On the 207/2 flagship towers, the high-gloss finish is a $500 premium on each speaker. Of course, the retail prices are the same for either finishes.

KEF sends you this micro-fiber cloth for wiping the surface of the speakers.

They also send you the documents signed by the person who actually assembled the speakers by hand. It has the FR/SPL graph of each speaker too. Neat stuff. Even the manual looks pretty good. You can tell the paper was thicker than usual.

Revel didn't send me sh!t. Their manuals look like cheap thin papers. For $22,000/pr retail, Revel needs to send all kinds of stuff, but they don't.

Have you guys seen this KEF video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqgQXlXnxa0&feature=related

I love the way those Brits talk.

 

[GranteedEV]

Revel didn't send me sh!t. Their manuals look like cheap thin papers. For $22,000/pr retail, Revel needs to send all kinds of stuff, but they don't.

Is the difference between cheap thin papers and hand signed documents audible in a double blind test?

Revel says NO

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is the difference between cheap thin papers and hand signed documents audible in a double blind test?

Revel says NO

Oh, shut-tup, bloody man [British accent]!!!

The KEFs are also Tri-ampable and tri-wireable, while the Revels are only bi-ampable and bi-wireable!

Big difference there!

Only the Orions are Quad-ampable.

 

[3db]

I have happily owned a pair of SongTowers for nearly 4 years now. If you can get them shipped to Australia for a price that works for you, I highly recommend them. Jim Salk is an excellent person to do business with. He is knowledgeable and trustworthy.

SongTowers were designed by a highly experienced speaker designer who listens to and plays classical music on a regular basis.

Read my impressions, linked below.

Ironic!! Paul Barton, the founder of PSB is an accomplished violinist. Maybe that's why I'm drawn to his brand as he knows first hand what speakers should sound like. I wonder how a colabrative effort would turn out if those two should ever work together.

 

[Xytech]

Dear All,

Thank you for persevering through this thread! To give an update:

I am continuing the hunt for some quality speakers. I have inquired with both Salk & Dennis from Philharmonic Audio. Total costs of getting some Philharmonic or Salk Songtowers out here would realistically be about ~$800-1000 on top of the standard price. This is a bit sad - as shipping itself is only 400, but then the Australian government decides to slap duties and taxes on.

Anyway, I am waiting on a final quote on the Philharmonics. I should add that it has been a pleasure to deal with Dennis and I guess I really do hope I can find out a way of getting them over here. Out of curiosity - the model I am looking at is the Phil 3 (I figured if I was going to get them I might as well go all out!) - including shipping to Australia I'd be looking at close to 4k. Please consider that figure in mind when viewing below what I have been looking at in the interim.

Anyway, so I have been continuing to immerse myself in speakers and learn more about them, and where they are sold over here.

I have got the following few quotes - and I would appreciate comments on these models, particularly the first two!

1. One option is a DIY setup by a speaker hobbyist in Melbourne who has made many pairs of speakers and has got rave reviews from those who have heard (ie he seems to know what he is doing). The model is: Vifa/Scanspeak Standmounts [Sealed ZD5s] plus stands. Link to the thread is here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/8938-Vifa-Scan-Speak-Standmounts
He is asking $1500 AUD, which seems to me, considering the components, to be a very reasonable price. Indeed, compared to similar offerings, it seems to be in a league of its own. I am off to hear these on Wednesday. My main concern is lack of bass, but hopefully they are OK! - they have the he Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and the Vifa XT25TG30-04.

2. I have been given a quote on the Paradigm Monitor 11's for $1700 AUD, or the studio 9's for about $1200 - this is a reasonable reduction from the usual price over here of $2300. I feel with these the bass would be better than the above. I asked the shop owner about the KEF Q900/Q700 and he said: 'The new KEF range is unsuitable for Classical music as they’re aimed at the youth market (Rap, heavy metal etc.) – all bass and treble with no midrange.' - I am not sure how much weight to give this comment, and this leads me to question the choice of paradigms, as in this thread at least the KEF have got a very positive rap.

3. I have found some Revel F12's for $2500 (RRP) - I am going in to hear these tomorrow and imagine that I could probably get it down to perhaps $2000.

4. Definitive Technology Mythos STS - these are slightly outside my price range ($2990 AUD) but are reduced from the $5000 RRP. I'm going to hear these tomorrow as well. I feel these may be a bit overkill for classical music/my small room though.

5. ELAC Elac FS 67 ($839) & 68 ($1259) - these are at the dealer I am going to tomorrow, so I might as well hear these too.

6. KEF Q900/Q700 (~$2200) & PSB Image T6 (~$2000) - I have yet to hear these but intend to soon.

7. Canton Vento 870DC - I don't know much about these, but can be purchased for $2100 (apparant RRP is $4899)

8. Thiel 2.4, 2nd hand for $3000. This would require a 9 hour drive to Sydney and back, but from my understanding these speakers are rather good?

Your thoughts would be appreciated. Ultimately, I wonder if bang for buck, even including importation costs, the Phil 3's are the ones to go for. I would welcome thoughts on this.

Best wishes

 

[cpp]

Depending on the overall weight of the Philharmonic's shipping could get rather expensive. Most likely anything into your area is going to cost coming from the US not to mention the delay in waiting for the product to arrive. PS it's not fast.

Total cost for having a 54lb kayak shipped from Cape Town South Africa to Jacksonville Fla, $600.00.

 

[johnlewisgrant]

Have you taken the plunge? Decided?

If not, I recently compared the lowly Magnapan MMGs to 4 different speakers: Spendor 9 (Very new, about 5k US a pair), Kef 104 ref (old but good), ProAc Response 1SC (Thought to be one of the best mini-monitors in the world, about 2100k US), and a pair of powered sound monitors, made IN the US, called Mackie 824s.

The MMGs were clearly better than all of these speakers, at least on classical, which is mainly what I listen to. I have personally own ALL the above speakers, except the Spendors, which I was ABOUT to purchase as they were so highly rated at "accurate" meanding 1. no distortion; 2. flat frequency response from about 30 to 20k hz.

I was quite literally "astonished" or, perhaps, "blown away" by the little (and cheap in Canada) MMGs when I compared them at my own home, which is incredibly important. Stereo shops will ALWAYS have more background noise, and the acoustics will NOT be comparable to the environment at your home.

I compared the MMGs (which was able to borrow after first listening to them in the shop) directly with all the above BOX speakers. All of them sounded quite noticeably "BOXY" by comparison. The mids and highs of the MMGs were MUCH clearer than the mids and highs on the Spendors, and the Spendors are phenomenally accurate and beautiful-sounding speakers. But, in contrast to the Spendors, there is, seemingly, O% distortion with the MMGS. And they are VERY, VERY flat.

Their enormous superiority over everything else is particularly obvious to me in solo voice and piano music; but also in reproducing the sound of any orchestral instrument you care to name. The sound, to me, is almost BETTER than live! Utterly real.

I DID NOT have the same experience with the Magnapan MG12s, which most stereo fanatics will tell you are hands down better than the little (well they're not that little) MMGs. Fact is, the 12s are more a rock speaker: they play much louder than the MMGs, much more easily, but much less accurately. So don't consider the 12s, if you are into classical. You will be very disappointed.

So the MMGs are cheap and they are also returnable. They do bass, but not much between 45 and 20 hz. So you need a good sub. They will play loud enough to bust your eardrums, but not as loud as almost all the speakers mentioned so far. With a good sub like an ACI (US made sub), you can get the bass EXACTLY right, and I kid you not: you will swear that you are in the concert hall.

Only $20,000.00 and up cone speakers will come even close.

JG

 

[3db]

Dear All,

Thank you for persevering through this thread! To give an update:

I am continuing the hunt for some quality speakers. I have inquired with both Salk & Dennis from Philharmonic Audio. Total costs of getting some Philharmonic or Salk Songtowers out here would realistically be about ~$800-1000 on top of the standard price. This is a bit sad - as shipping itself is only 400, but then the Australian government decides to slap duties and taxes on.

Anyway, I am waiting on a final quote on the Philharmonics. I should add that it has been a pleasure to deal with Dennis and I guess I really do hope I can find out a way of getting them over here. Out of curiosity - the model I am looking at is the Phil 3 (I figured if I was going to get them I might as well go all out!) - including shipping to Australia I'd be looking at close to 4k. Please consider that figure in mind when viewing below what I have been looking at in the interim.

Anyway, so I have been continuing to immerse myself in speakers and learn more about them, and where they are sold over here.

I have got the following few quotes - and I would appreciate comments on these models, particularly the first two!

1. One option is a DIY setup by a speaker hobbyist in Melbourne who has made many pairs of speakers and has got rave reviews from those who have heard (ie he seems to know what he is doing). The model is: Vifa/Scanspeak Standmounts [Sealed ZD5s] plus stands. Link to the thread is here: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/8938-Vifa-Scan-Speak-Standmounts
He is asking $1500 AUD, which seems to me, considering the components, to be a very reasonable price. Indeed, compared to similar offerings, it seems to be in a league of its own. I am off to hear these on Wednesday. My main concern is lack of bass, but hopefully they are OK! - they have the he Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and the Vifa XT25TG30-04.

2. I have been given a quote on the Paradigm Monitor 11's for $1700 AUD, or the studio 9's for about $1200 - this is a reasonable reduction from the usual price over here of $2300. I feel with these the bass would be better than the above. I asked the shop owner about the KEF Q900/Q700 and he said: 'The new KEF range is unsuitable for Classical music as they’re aimed at the youth market (Rap, heavy metal etc.) – all bass and treble with no midrange.' - I am not sure how much weight to give this comment, and this leads me to question the choice of paradigms, as in this thread at least the KEF have got a very positive rap.

3. I have found some Revel F12's for $2500 (RRP) - I am going in to hear these tomorrow and imagine that I could probably get it down to perhaps $2000.

4. Definitive Technology Mythos STS - these are slightly outside my price range ($2990 AUD) but are reduced from the $5000 RRP. I'm going to hear these tomorrow as well. I feel these may be a bit overkill for classical music/my small room though.

5. ELAC Elac FS 67 ($839) & 68 ($1259) - these are at the dealer I am going to tomorrow, so I might as well hear these too.

6. KEF Q900/Q700 (~$2200) & PSB Image T6 (~$2000) - I have yet to hear these but intend to soon.

7. Canton Vento 870DC - I don't know much about these, but can be purchased for $2100 (apparant RRP is $4899)

8. Thiel 2.4, 2nd hand for $3000. This would require a 9 hour drive to Sydney and back, but from my understanding these speakers are rather good?

Your thoughts would be appreciated. Ultimately, I wonder if bang for buck, even including importation costs, the Phil 3's are the ones to go for. I would welcome thoughts on this.

Best wishes

No PSB dealers near you?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your thoughts would be appreciated. Ultimately, I wonder if bang for buck, even including importation costs, the Phil 3's are the ones to go for.

IMO a lot of these speakers may sound more alike than some people think.

Even if 100 people say a certain speaker sound great or not so great to them, it is no guarantee that you will agree.

Some people say they are not impressed with the $22K Revel Salon2.

Some are not impressed with the $25K B&W 800 D.

Some are not impressed with the $20K KEF 207/2.

Some are not impressed with the $15K Linkwitz Orion.

Some are not impressed with the Philharmonic & Salk speakers.

 

[johnlewisgrant]

IMO a lot of these speakers may sound more alike than some people think.

Even if 100 people say a certain speaker sound great or not so great to them, it is no guarantee that you will agree.

Some people say they are not impressed with the $22K Revel Salon2.

Some are not impressed with the $25K B&W 800 D.

Some are not impressed with the $20K KEF 207/2.

Some are not impressed with the $15K Linkwitz Orion.

Some are not impressed with the Philharmonic & Salk speakers.

Never a truer word was spoken! In the "old days" of speaker marketing, at least in Toronto, ALL the competative high end brands were set up TOGETHER in a reasonably dampened room. You could "AB" them (directly switch from one to another) to your heart's content.

This set up was FANTASTIC for the buyer, but the manufacturers didn't like it, 1) because certain brands REALLY WERE BETTER for certain types of music than other brands.
2) because--and this is super-important--some speakers, while not better than others, are much more efficient than others, and hence play much louder than others. This makes the "louder" speaker seem immediately better to untrained ears. So the pressure was on to make speakers more efficient, not for sound quality, but simply to move more product!

Unfortunately, at least in Toronto, the big, high end shops with lots of different high end speakers in the shop, strike deals with the speaker companies for "dedicated rooms". At Bay Bloor Radio (the biggest shop in Toronto, which has some high end stuff) "Totem Acoustics" (a Canadian company) has its own room. Likewise with BOSE, which I personally don't consider much of a high end speaker.

So it's HARD TO COMPARE speakers directly these days. But when you CAN do that, subtle differences between speakes become readily apparent! It's VERY EASY, when you AB speakers directly to tell the difference between a "rock" speaker and a "classical music" speaker, for example.

Sadly, the days of AB comparisons in speaker shops are long gone.

JG

 

[Xytech]

Hi All,

To provide you with an update and some closure: Basically I ended up heading over to a friend's place to hear his speakers. He has this crazy set up, Acapella High Violon (http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/acapella_high_violon.htm). He runs then with this insane assortment of amps & two subwoofers. I've never seen anything like them. Anyway, we had a good chat about classical music and listened to a few pieces. In the end he kindly agreed to sell me the speakers he bought as a student - Australian floorstanders, "Acoustic Definition Signatures" - quite tall towers, MTM with passive sidewoofers at a very good (read: exceptional) price. I'm very much enjoying them and they are great speakers. The company is now defunct but from what I can tell, in their day they were very well regarded.

In the mean time, because I didn't break the bank, I can either upgrade my amp & sub, or start thinking about my dream speakers a few years down the track.

Thanks all for your advice. I was actually leaning towards a pair of Revel F12's before this deal popped up - I had a listen and they seemed fantastic.

I'm also keenly watching a few AU secondhand forums - I figure that if I can bide my time, I can eventually complete my setup with some bargains.

Cheers

 

[johnlewisgrant]

Heard much good stuff about the Revels. I should give them a listen when I get a chance!

JG

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In the mean time, because I didn't break the bank, I can either upgrade my amp & sub, or start thinking about my dream speakers a few years down the track.

Thanks all for your advice. I was actually leaning towards a pair of Revel F12's before this deal popped up - I had a listen and they seemed fantastic.

I'm also keenly watching a few AU secondhand forums - I figure that if I can bide my time, I can eventually complete my setup with some bargains.

Cheers

Congrats on the speakers.

I vote for saving up for those Dream Speakers too.

And I think the Revel F12 speakers would have been great as well.

Perhaps Revel Studio2 or Salon2 for your dream speakers.

 

[Xytech]

To be honest I'd love to pick up a pair of Philharmonic 3's. Shipping costs + room restrictions though don't make it a great option at present. Still, when I have moved out, started full time work in 2013 and am depressed from working on corporate law all day, that may help me take the plunge

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

To be honest I'd love to pick up a pair of Philharmonic 3's. Shipping costs + room restrictions though don't make it a great option at present. Still, when I have moved out, started full time work in 2013 and am depressed from working on corporate law all day, that may help me take the plunge

I've never heard the Salk or Philharmonic speakers.

But if what everyone is saying is true, based on my experience with speaker auditions, I bet they sound very similar to the Revel Studio2 & Salon2 & KEF 207/2, etc.