Best Receiver for Paradigm Reference

[newfmp3]

I hope the following links work for you.
QUOTE]

Yeah thanks. Dont' get me wrong I wasn't doubting you, just looking for more sites for information. That review with the 773/2400/3805 etc, do you still have it? How did the 2400/773 rate?

 

[PENG]

I hope the following links work for you.
QUOTE]

Yeah thanks. Dont' get me wrong I wasn't doubting you, just looking for more sites for information. That review with the 773/2400/3805 etc, do you still have it? How did the 2400/773 rate?

No problem newfmp3. And don't get me wrong neither, I was not trying to defend the 3805 and there is no reason for me to do so. I just thought it doesn't hurt for people in the decision making process to see more view points.

Yes, I do have a hard copy of the What Hi*Fi Nov issue. They thought highly of the 2400 (edit:actually its the 1500 that they paired with the HK630 and the 773 receiver/DVD player combo). I remember the reviewer thought the 773 has talent, but it was not picked as best buy (edit:not best buy, just "winner") because it was a combo review and it was let down by the DVD player it was paired with. I will read it again tonight to be sure but if I remember correctly, the 773 pair lost to the Yamaha pair (best buy in the group along with the HK & NAD) in the mid level group. The 3805 was in the high end group competiting and beat out the Pioneer and Arcam pair. Again, the 773 was in the mid level (edit:mid-price) group only because it was paired with a lower end NAD universal (edit:just a DVD player for this mid-price group) for some reason.

 

[newfmp3]

yeah let me know. I'm curious as to what they said about the nads sound. to be honest it just doesn't impress that much without an eq.

Hence why I'm looking at the 4600.

Everything i read and continue to read makes the Nad out to be this amazing sounding amp. When I hooked it up I was seriously confused and let down.

 

[eirepaul]

I have been looking at the Paradigm Reference Studio 60 (v3)'s with the CC-570, SA10-R in-ceilings, and a Paradigm PW2200 sub. I have heard the 60's at my local Paradigm dealer and they sounded quite stunning with the Sherwood Newcastle R-965. This baby has been given high marks in recent reviews and the build quality is excellent. List price is about $1995 USD and it is rated at 120 watts x 7. It really looks and feels like a premium product, definitely above the NAD and on par with the Rotel. Sherwood USA actually produces many popular OEM AV Receivers (Marantz, Denon, among others) and their Newcastle line mirrors the Paradigm design goals of performance and value.
I plan on adding my faithful old Adcom GFA 555 2-channel power amp to give the 60's a bit more kick.

I don't have experience with the Paradigm Reference line, I am currently using the Paradigm Mini-Monitors, CC-370 and Paradigm Atoms. It seems to me my speakers need substantial power input to make them really sing. The 3805 has perfectly adequate clean power reserves for a lot of speaker/room/loudness situations. I have speakers that need high power inputs, a large room, and I listen at loud levels. Therefore, I have supplemented my 3805 with one Adcom 3-channel amp and one Adcom 2-channel amp, with the 3805 driving the rear surrounds. Both Adcoms are 200 w/ch, which is a minimum if you are going to make this worthwhile. I got the 3-ch amp used and I had the 2-ch amp already - so for me it was relatively inexpensive to supplement my 3805. It can be an expensive proposition otherwise. The 3805 is a great front-end processor with a great array of features and it has 7 amps. It provides a ton of flexibility. I would recommend it highly as a processor alone.

 

[pjripple]

Rotel 1068/1095???

Does anyone have any experience with the Rotel 1068/1095 combo? My local dealer has a floor/demo 1095 amp (5 x 200w) at a really good price and will take 10% off the 1068. The total comes to about $3k. The only other option for separates that I can find in that price range is Outlaw Audio, which is actually a little cheaper and appears to have a few more features. I just ordered the Studio 100's and 570 center and I am dumbfounded by the number of options and opinions as to what to power these with. I initially wanted to get the Denon 3805 but have some reservations as to its ability to really drive this system. I guess I could get the Denon and use it as a pre/pro if I wanted more power...

 

[Nick250]

I don't have experience with the Paradigm Reference line, I am currently using the Paradigm Mini-Monitors, CC-370 and Paradigm Atoms. It seems to me my speakers need substantial power input to make them really sing. The 3805 has perfectly adequate clean power reserves for a lot of speaker/room/loudness situations. I have speakers that need high power inputs, a large room, and I listen at loud levels. Therefore, I have supplemented my 3805 with one Adcom 3-channel amp and one Adcom 2-channel amp, with the 3805 driving the rear surrounds. Both Adcoms are 200 w/ch, which is a minimum if you are going to make this worthwhile. I got the 3-ch amp used and I had the 2-ch amp already - so for me it was relatively inexpensive to supplement my 3805. It can be an expensive proposition otherwise. The 3805 is a great front-end processor with a great array of features and it has 7 amps. It provides a ton of flexibility. I would recommend it highly as a processor alone.

There is something wrong with this picture. You may want to rethink your advice. Mini Monitors and Atoms can't sing with a 3805 alone? Of course they can, what nonsense. Even receivers of lesser power will power them to deafening levels just fine. Infact even the 3805 is overkill IMO. And spending so much for receiver/amps and so little on speakers. 60% or so of your total system budget should go to speakers. The other 40% goes to everything else. And yes among other speakers I do own Atoms and Mini Monitors.

 

[BARK]

hello, I just hooked up two studio 100's to my old pioneer 606s (100 w per channel) all I can say is WOW if they sound this good now, not broken in, then I can't wait to hook my new 4600 up!!!!!!! I was planing on adding a 200w amp but I'm not sure it's needed now.

 

[PENG]

yeah let me know. I'm curious as to what they said about the nads sound. to be honest it just doesn't impress that much without an eq.

Hence why I'm looking at the 4600.

Everything i read and continue to read makes the Nad out to be this amazing sounding amp. When I hooked it up I was seriously confused and let down.

Okay here it is:

What Hi*Fi Sound and Vision Nov 2004 - Mid-Price Megatest

DV22/AVR630 vs T533/T773 vs DVD-S550/RX-V1500 (The Yamaha pair was picked the winner)

I am just going to quote the last paragraph.

"NAD's claims to musical integrity are founded, with fine detail and good dynamics producing impressive two-channel performance. If you're considering using this set up as your primary music source, then the NAD combo will satisfy more than most AV receivers in this class. Overall, this is another same brand brace that's let down by an under-performing DVD player. It's a shame, because the T773 receiver has talents."

They gave the T773 4 stars and the RX-V1500 5 stars.

In the High end group, they reviewed the ArcamDV79/AVR300, Denon DVD-3910/AVR-3805 & the Pioneer 868-AVi/VSX-AX5Ai, the Denon pair was picked the winner. They did say the AVR300 was most musical. I demoed the AVR300 and I also found it most pleasing to my ears. The much higher price for a perceived (without A/B comparison) slightly sweeter sound pushed me towards the 3805 in the end.

If, and only if you believe in what they say about those receivers, you would buy either the AVR300 (£1,300) or the AVR-3805 (£1,00) RX-V1500 (£800) and skip the quite expensive T773 (£1200). I think it is good to read as many reviews as possible, but go for the one that you really like yourself.

 

[newfmp3]

thanks man, your the best

 

[eirepaul]

There is something wrong with this picture. You may want to rethink your advice. Mini Monitors and Atoms can't sing with a 3805 alone? Of course they can, what nonsense. Even receivers of lesser power will power them to deafening levels just fine. Infact even the 3805 is overkill IMO. And spending so much for receiver/amps and so little on speakers. 60% or so of your total system budget should go to speakers. The other 40% goes to everything else. And yes among other speakers I do own Atoms and Mini Monitors.

Did you have a bad day Nick? Your response was somewhat terse and grumpy. Yes, of course the 3805 can run those Paradigms to loud levels. If you had taken a moment to really study my post you would realize that I have a large room, like to listen at loud levels, like to run all 7 channels and I want to hear clean undistorted sound. The 3805 runs out of power for me in my particular situation - for whatever your situation is it clearly does not. An opportunity came up to get the 3-ch amp at a great price and I grabbed it. Plus, I now have the amps in place for future upgrades in my speakers. My system is usually awaiting the next upgrade, which in this case will be speakers. Not everyone can always do things exactly by the book Nick.

 

[Nick250]

I did your post carefully and what I was responding to was this:

"I have speakers that need high power inputs"

referring to your Paradigm Atoms and Mini Monitors and that the Dennon 3805 was not up to the task of making them sing. And I say, it just aint so that Atoms and Mini Monitors need a bunch of power to make them sing even in a big room and loud. I did not want the message of them needing lots of power to cause a reader of this forum to not to purchase these great little speakers because they think they are power hungry, which they are not IMO.

 

[sts9fan]

I use 100 watts per channel with my 60s and i think they sound great.

 

[ht_addict]

Did you have a bad day Nick? Your response was somewhat terse and grumpy. Yes, of course the 3805 can run those Paradigms to loud levels. If you had taken a moment to really study my post you would realize that I have a large room, like to listen at loud levels, like to run all 7 channels and I want to hear clean undistorted sound. The 3805 runs out of power for me in my particular situation - for whatever your situation is it clearly does not. An opportunity came up to get the 3-ch amp at a great price and I grabbed it. Plus, I now have the amps in place for future upgrades in my speakers. My system is usually awaiting the next upgrade, which in this case will be speakers. Not everyone can always do things exactly by the book Nick.

Eirepaul, I have to agree with Nick250 assesment off your post. Disregard large room and undistorted sound for a second, since any speaker can have problems with these factors. Where you were wrong in your assement was the phrase, I have speakers that need high power inputs. The mini monitors/CC370 are considered fairly efficient speakers, and require minimal power to achieve insane db levels. Take a look at SPL calculator, and plug in some numbers and you'll get a decent idea the type of db levels your putting out. I know it doesn't take into account room volume but it gives you an idea.

 

[eirepaul]

Eirepaul, I have to agree with Nick250 assesment off your post. Disregard large room and undistorted sound for a second, since any speaker can have problems with these factors. Where you were wrong in your assement was the phrase, I have speakers that need high power inputs. The mini monitors/CC370 are considered fairly efficient speakers, and require minimal power to achieve insane db levels. Take a look at SPL calculator, and plug in some numbers and you'll get a decent idea the type of db levels your putting out. I know it doesn't take into account room volume but it gives you an idea.

Alright ht-addict, I agree with you and Nick250 that my statement was misleading. The Minis and Atoms are not power-hungry speakers. What I should have said was I like to have high power reserves for my speakers. That would be a more accurate statement. These are both great small speakers and I am very satisfied with them, as I am with all Paradigm products. My next speakers will certainly also be Paradigms. I am still not sure about "minimal power to achieve insane dB levels". It all depends on your definition of insane dBs. Back to my original point - most systems would benefit from having extra power reserves on hand and I have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity to add extra power quite inexpensively. I listen to multi-channel music a lot and I often like to listen as though I was at a loud concert - it's what I enjoy because the experience of seemingly being in the middle of a favorite recording is fabulous, particularly with clean, detailed sound. Once again, my listening room is very large with high peaked ceilings and the additional amplification benefits my situation. I apologise if anyone reading my original post was misled.

 

[ht_addict]

Alright ht-addict, I agree with you and Nick250 that my statement was misleading. The Minis and Atoms are not power-hungry speakers. What I should have said was I like to have high power reserves for my speakers. That would be a more accurate statement. These are both great small speakers and I am very satisfied with them, as I am with all Paradigm products. My next speakers will certainly also be Paradigms. I am still not sure about "minimal power to achieve insane dB levels". It all depends on your definition of insane dBs. Back to my original point - most systems would benefit from having extra power reserves on hand and I have been lucky enough to have had the opportunity to add extra power quite inexpensively. I listen to multi-channel music a lot and I often like to listen as though I was at a loud concert - it's what I enjoy because the experience of seemingly being in the middle of a favorite recording is fabulous, particularly with clean, detailed sound. Once again, my listening room is very large with high peaked ceilings and the additional amplification benefits my situation. I apologise if anyone reading my original post was misled.

No problem, not trying to create tension Back when I first got into 5.1, Paradigm Mini Monitors/CC350 made up the core of my setup. And they sounded great even when only powered with a low end Yamaha receiver. You are correct that the added power and headroom that a dedicated amp offers is definetly worth it. At one point I had a Rotel RMB-1095 powering them, major overkill, but the sound was sweet. It also gave me the excuse to upgrade to the Studio(v3) 40/20/CC470's(now 40/ADP470/CC570). If you move into the Studio line you won't be disappointed. Which brings me to something I noticed about your setup. The reason you may be needing the extra power to reach the db levels you want, is that your asking a little too much from the Atoms and Micros which only have 5-1/2 drivers and 1/2 the internal volume of the Minis. This leaves the Mini's/CC370 to do the majority of the work. For movies this would be okay, but multi channel music, not. Just my 2 pennies.

 

[eirepaul]

No problem, not trying to create tension Back when I first got into 5.1, Paradigm Mini Monitors/CC350 made up the core of my setup. And they sounded great even when only powered with a low end Yamaha receiver. You are correct that the added power and headroom that a dedicated amp offers is definetly worth it. At one point I had a Rotel RMB-1095 powering them, major overkill, but the sound was sweet. It also gave me the excuse to upgrade to the Studio(v3) 40/20/CC470's(now 40/ADP470/CC570). If you move into the Studio line you won't be disappointed. Which brings me to something I noticed about your setup. The reason you may be needing the extra power to reach the db levels you want, is that your asking a little too much from the Atoms and Micros which only have 5-1/2 drivers and 1/2 the internal volume of the Minis. This leaves the Mini's/CC370 to do the majority of the work. For movies this would be okay, but multi channel music, not. Just my 2 pennies.

I agree with your assessment; although the Micros don't see a whole lot of action in general (with most program material). The studio line would be my next level of upgrade. I am interested in the 20s or 40s as I prefer stand mounted units. What was the biggest improvement you noticed with the Studios over the Monitors? I have read that the Studios benefit a lot from bi-wiring.

 

[ht_addict]

I agree with your assessment; although the Micros don't see a whole lot of action in general (with most program material). The studio line would be my next level of upgrade. I am interested in the 20s or 40s as I prefer stand mounted units. What was the biggest improvement you noticed with the Studios over the Monitors? I have read that the Studios benefit a lot from bi-wiring.

Going from Monitors to Studio's brought increased detail, larger more focused soundstage and much better bass response. As far as bi-wiring goes if you have the extra wiring then give it a try. But since you have the extra amp channels I would bi-amp your fronts using 4 of 5 channels from the Adcoms, and the 5th channel for the center. Run the back and rears off the Denon.