Best Receiver for Paradigm Reference

[Buckeyefan 1]

Do you think I'd be okay running the 100's bi amped (please remember I'm a newb here...) using something like the Yamaha RVX 2500 or Denon 3805? I'm just trying to not blow the budget too badly right now. My intention would be to add an external amp in the future. Doesn't bi-amping basically use the 6th and 7th channels to double the power to the fronts? Please let me know if I'm way off here.

Paul

Biamping through a Denon 3805 does not double the power to the fronts from the 6th and 7th channel. There's no comparison to doing that, and running a separate two channel power amp to the fronts. The 3805 puts out around 77 watts into 7 channels, and is really taxed when driving hard loads if you've got all 7 channels running (like 7 channel stereo). If you're doing it in two channel stereo, you'll get a little more headroom (you're only using 4 of the 7 amp "sections" instead of 7, but it's still not even close to a dedicated power amp. Don't buy a receiver for the "bi-amp" capability. Get it for the convenience, features, sound, and value.

 

[newfmp3]

hmmmm, I do believe we are bordering on the "all Channels Driven" theory here.

 

[PENG]

hmmmm, I do believe we are bordering on the "all Channels Driven" theory here.

Agree. I hope we won't be dabating this all over again.

 

[Jason Coleman]

Same boat...Same gear...

I bought our Studio 100 v3's and then picked up the Denon 3805. The Studio 100s, while very efficient speakers, dip down below 4 ohms when run full range and therefore need more power than the 3805 can deliver with ease. I ran our setup for over a year before adding an Anthem MCA-20 (225 wpc) for the front end, and the difference is staggering! The sound is incredibly clear and concise and effortless...whatever that means. The power is just there for the taking! It's just crisp and clean and clear. We're also running the CC-570 and ADP-470 speakers, and the Servo-15 subwoofer directly from the 3805 and hope to add rear surrounds (maybe Studio 20 or 40 or 470) in the future.

You'll definitely benefit from the additional power of an outboard amp. Just because the 3805 can't drive the whole farmload without strain isn't a knock on the 3805...it's still the best bang-for-the-buck AVR out there! It just needs a little help when driving a serious system!

Jason

 

[pjripple]

Same boat...Same gear...

I bought our Studio 100 v3's and then picked up the Denon 3805. The Studio 100s, while very efficient speakers, dip down below 4 ohms when run full range and therefore need more power than the 3805 can deliver with ease. I ran our setup for over a year before adding an Anthem MCA-20 (225 wpc) for the front end, and the difference is staggering! The sound is incredibly clear and concise and effortless...whatever that means. The power is just there for the taking! It's just crisp and clean and clear. We're also running the CC-570 and ADP-470 speakers, and the Servo-15 subwoofer directly from the 3805 and hope to add rear surrounds (maybe Studio 20 or 40 or 470) in the future.

You'll definitely benefit from the additional power of an outboard amp. Just because the 3805 can't drive the whole farmload without strain isn't a knock on the 3805...it's still the best bang-for-the-buck AVR out there! It just needs a little help when driving a serious system!

Jason

So using the 3805 until you upgraded to an external amp was okay? My concern from what I've been reading is that if I use an a/v reciever and not an external amp from the get go is that it will sound like crap or I will clip/damage the speaker or reciever.

 

[mulester7]

Same boat...Same gear...

I bought our Studio 100 v3's and then picked up the Denon 3805. The Studio 100s, while very efficient speakers, dip down below 4 ohms when run full range and therefore need more power than the 3805 can deliver with ease. I ran our setup for over a year before adding an Anthem MCA-20 (225 wpc) for the front end, and the difference is staggering! The sound is incredibly clear and concise and effortless...whatever that means. The power is just there for the taking! It's just crisp and clean and clear. We're also running the CC-570 and ADP-470 speakers, and the Servo-15 subwoofer directly from the 3805 and hope to add rear surrounds (maybe Studio 20 or 40 or 470) in the future.

You'll definitely benefit from the additional power of an outboard amp. Just because the 3805 can't drive the whole farmload without strain isn't a knock on the 3805...it's still the best bang-for-the-buck AVR out there! It just needs a little help when driving a serious system!

Jason

.....I trust everyone RED this one?....yeah, red, there's no hesitation-confusion....well, except maybe to laugh at a stupid mule....who recognized the effects of substantial headroom, instantly, the first time....

.....let's see now, we've just recently heard fatter, fuller, punchier, tighter, crisper, cleaner, more concise, and more clear.....

 

[pjripple]

.....I trust everyone RED this one?....yeah, red, there's no hesitation-confusion....well, except maybe to laugh at a stupid mule....who recognized the effects of substantial headroom, instantly, the first time....

.....let's see now, we've just recently heard fatter, fuller, punchier, tighter, crisper, cleaner, more concise, and more clear.....

WTF?

 

[ht_addict]

So using the 3805 until you upgraded to an external amp was okay? My concern from what I've been reading is that if I use an a/v reciever and not an external amp from the get go is that it will sound like crap or I will clip/damage the speaker or reciever.

The sound of the 3805 should be fine for driving speakers, as long as you don't crank the volume to high. Eventually you would hit the amp stages ceiling and clipping will occur. Though at this point you may also be deaf if your still in the room From personal experience off using both receivers and receivers/amp combos(Rotel 1095, NADS 250), unless your room is large and or the speakers in question are very inefficient a receiver with a good amp stage will do the job.

 

[newfmp3]

would the rx-v 4600 amp section be any better over a 3805 ? more or less current?

 

[PENG]

would the rx-v 4600 amp section be any better over a 3805 ? more or less current?

I doubt it. In playing two channel material, my 3805 does almost as well as my separate system. I think the amps in the 3805 are quite strong.

 

[ht_addict]

would the rx-v 4600 amp section be any better over a 3805 ? more or less current?

Honestly that I couldn't tell you. I suggest you contact the reviewers of these units here on AH for that info. Though I can't see either one coming close to the amp section of the NAD T773 you have.

Well, I had one shipped to the house, hooked it up to my Axiom M80ti's, and all of a sudden my M80's sounded like a Bose system. NOT GOOD. All mids, little highs, and bass was almost non-existent. Of course, I was comparing directly to a tfm-15 Carver amp and Carver preamp that had been powering them up to this point. I was immediatly looking for a EQ to fix the thing.

This is totally the opposite from me and what I hear on my Paradigm Studio 40/CC570/ADP470 setup.

 

[PENG]

Honestly that I couldn't tell you. I suggest you contact the reviewers of these units here on AH for that info. Though I can't see either one coming close to the amp section of the NAD T773 you have.



This is totally the opposite from me and what I hear on my Paradigm Studio 40/CC570/ADP470 setup.

Some of the British reviews seem to put the 3805 ahead of the T773. Here in NA, reviewers tend to think the NAD's are better. Of course this is just my observation.

 

[Jason Coleman]

So using the 3805 until you upgraded to an external amp was okay? My concern from what I've been reading is that if I use an a/v reciever and not an external amp from the get go is that it will sound like crap or I will clip/damage the speaker or reciever.

The 3805 did a very fine job of running a pretty demanding 5.1 system and probably would have continued to do so. However, during multichannel music and DVD usage, the 3805 would tend to get fairly warm. As I posted, despite their efficiency, the Studio 100s dip pretty low and can put a fairly hefty load on an AVR. After doing plenty of looking and listening, I opted for the Anthem and have been incredibly pleased with it. The majority of my usage is 2-channel music, so that's one reason (the other being financial) for not going with a 3 or 5 channel amp.

Jason

 

[mulester7]

Wow...that was really fantastic. Just when I was in the mood to read a useless, moronic, unfounded, off-base, from-left-field, uncontributing, and generally idiotic post...there you are!

Thanks for continuing to be a real contributor...you idiot.

Jason

.....Jason, I'm confused, I complimented and endorsed your original post where you advocated using a slave amp and applying headroom....I even gave you a chicklet.....

 

[tdeluce]

The 3805 did a very fine job of running a pretty demanding 5.1 system and probably would have continued to do so. However, during multichannel music and DVD usage, the 3805 would tend to get fairly warm. As I posted, despite their efficiency, the Studio 100s dip pretty low and can put a fairly hefty load on an AVR. After doing plenty of looking and listening, I opted for the Anthem and have been incredibly pleased with it. The majority of my usage is 2-channel music, so that's one reason (the other being financial) for not going with a 3 or 5 channel amp.

Jason

Hi Jason, I completely agree with you. I have the AVR-4802
and evaluated the AVR-3805 for a week. I drive Polk Audio
LSi series which are 4 ohm speakers and I typically listen
to my HT a little below reference level and the AVR-4802
is noticably fuller and the sound is "effortless" compared to
the AVR-3805. I recommend the AVR-3805 to those
driving 8 ohm speakers since it is not such a great strain
on the relatively lower current amplifiers of the 3805.

 

[ht_addict]

Some of the British reviews seem to put the 3805 ahead of the T773. Here in NA, reviewers tend to think the NAD's are better. Of course this is just my observation.

Maybe because the 3805 has all the bells and whistles, because it can't come close to the power of the NAD.

 

[newfmp3]

Maybe because the 3805 has all the bells and whistles, because it can't come close to the power of the NAD.

Just curious, have you actually used a 3805 and t773?

 

[ht_addict]

Just curious, have you actually used a 3805 and t773?

T773 powers my Studio setup, and the 3805 was demoed at my local dealer with a similar same setup. Why do you ask?

 

[Jason Coleman]

I think that a true comparison involves in-home usage, where you can discover all of the subtleties and features of a piece of equipment. HT_Addict, this isn't meant to discount your comparison, but I think that you can really get a feel for gear when you can sit down on your own couch and use it for a few days. Additionally, the way that shops set up their gear is more for their own convenience than for the component's true performance.

Just a couple of pennies...

Jason

 

[newfmp3]

T773 powers my Studio setup, and the 3805 was demoed at my local dealer with a similar same setup. Why do you ask?

More curious then anything. At least you are commenting on two things that you have actually used. It seems a lot of people here comment on a device without any prior experience with it and base their decision on what they read somewhere. Good up on ya.

I can't say I've used a 3805, but I can say the Nad has plenty of balls...