Behringer A500 Amplifier: Objective Test Results

[beppe61]

I agree but found some opinions about the amount of power supply capacitance in the A500 (i.e. 6600uF/channel) not enough to sustain most dynamic passages expecially with low/complex impedance loads.... Those humble Xunda (?) filter caps look suspicious to my eyes.
And high capacitance/quality filter caps are "vital" for any power amp performance. If only there were more space around them on the pcbs they would be already away from my A500. An amount of about 20.000uF/channel seems to be the norm on well designed power amps (in some case the amount is just enourmous)..
Regards,
beppe

My statement, based only on "rumors" , is only intended to stimulate the discussion further on the possibilities of this very interesting equipment.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[mike c]

I hope our resident experts would comment on the amount of capacitance on this amp.

 

[WmAx]

I agree but found some opinions about the amount of power supply capacitance in the A500 (i.e. 6600uF/channel) not enough to sustain most dynamic passages expecially with low/complex impedance loads.
No real speaker is a pure resistive load.
Some savings must have been done in the unit and usually the overall performance suffers.
The output Toshiba's bjts are ok, the transformer seems Ok.
Those humble Xunda (?) filter caps look suspicious to my eyes.
And high capacitance/quality filter caps are "vital" for any power amp performance.
If only there were more space around them on the pcbs they would be already away from my A500.
An amount of about 20.000uF/channel seems to be the norm on well designed power amps (in some case the amount is just enourmous).

Regards,

beppe

Re: complex loads and the A500

Audio Critic measured the Behringer A500 into electrical loads ranging from 0-60 degrees +, 0-60 degrees -, at various loads(1, 2, 4, 8), each data point is sustained for 20 ms. The A500 had no issues providing constant amount of power into any load(regardless of phase angle) at low distortion down to 2 ohms. At 1 ohms, the voltage drop was increasing exponentially, however. The Behringer had more constant output into a highly reactive load than a Bryston 875HT, for example, as a measured reference. The device used to test this was the PowerCube system: http://www.audiograph.se/subpages/technical/powercubemeasuringsystem.htm

The Behringer could have better maximum measured output power into lower impedance with an overall larger power supply, certainly. But to what effect? It already has equal output ability to amps costing much more. Slap in a larger transformer and more capacitors, and you will spend probably near what the amplifier costs to buy these items. End result? 250 watts/channel maximum power at 4 ohms instead of 220, maybe?

-Chris

 

[beppe61]

I found this words in an old review of the Rotel RB-985 THX amp in The Audio Critic magazine issue no.25 - Winter 1998-99:
" ..., the small primary power-supply capacitors are inimical to good THD performance at the lowest frequencies. They have insufficient energy storage for keeping the power supply line ripples to a low enough level".
So caps are very fundamental for the performance in the lows.
I can only confirm that a recapp I did in an old amp was very beneficial.
Caps are like reservoirs from which power can be drawn on demand when reproducing musical peaks.
The effect of a beefy and ready storage is quite noticeable IMHO.

Regards,

beppe

 

[Stageaxe]

Hey I found this link by chance. I read thru alot about the Behringer amp. Wich I haven't tested personally. I am a recording engineer and it is nice to see people appreciate our work by trying to hear what we actually do.
I feel so much better now trying to get the right snare mic or vocal mic and preamp and room acoustics to capture the best possible signal. For each track. An art in itself. And mixes sometimes include 56 or more tracks. Each painstakingly done for the best quality possible. Sometimes one signal chain for a track will include 10k+ easy worth of Mic/pre/compressor/EQ. Often vintage tube gear and or low quantity built custom.
It is so nice to see that there are alot of people out there with high end systems that can tell the difference. And appreciate it!
Thanks for listening

 

[Stageaxe]

xxxxxxx

 

[mtrycrafts]

I found this words in an old review of the Rotel RB-985 THX amp in The Audio Critic magazine issue no.25 - Winter 1998-99:
" ..., the small primary power-supply capacitors are inimical to good THD performance at the lowest frequencies. They have insufficient energy storage for keeping the power supply line ripples to a low enough level".
So caps are very fundamental for the performance in the lows.
I can only confirm that a recapp I did in an old amp was very beneficial.
Caps are like reservoirs from which power can be drawn on demand when reproducing musical peaks.
The effect of a beefy and ready storage is quite noticeable IMHO.
Regards,
beppe

I am sure wmax will add his comments, more qualified Yes, caps are nice. The A500 does have an RMS power rating 20-20kHz.
Musical peaks are very short. If you need more power than the RMS power is capable of and beyond its dynamic power rating, then you need a much bigger amp to fulfill your need.

 

[beppe61]

Hey I found this link by chance. I read thru alot about the Behringer amp. Wich I haven't tested personally.
I am a recording engineer ... It is so nice to see that there are alot of people out there with high end systems that can tell the difference. And appreciate it!
Thanks for listening

Dear Sir, I would be very interested to know some details about your monitoring system through which you evaluate your recordings.
I think it will be very educational for me.
Thank you very much and regards,

beppe
Italy

 

[Stageaxe]

I monitor from protools 7.1 software to a Universal Audio 2192 AD/DA converter. Then to an Alesis RA-500 power amp and a samson 120 reference amp. I have 3 sets of nearfields. Yamaha NS10's, Tannoy PB6.5 II's, and Tannoy System 800 actives.
Maybe not audiophile, but it gives me an accurate mix.

For my own personal CD listening enjoyment I run the d/a convertor into 2 Universal Audio 610 tube preamps equipped with Telefunken NOS tubes. And then to the Tannoy System 800's. It gives it a nice glowing sparkle.

Sorry for going off track. I was interested in the Behringer amp. I usually purchase things based on specs then find many reviews on the item and found this thread. The monitoring amp seems to be overlooked alot in studios sometimes. I just wanted to see if I can improve my monitor chain. I am interested in a perfectly flat low power amp for near field monitoring. As you may know near field monitoring doesn't require alot of power. But TONS of headroom is a must...
My friend owns a dealership/live sound company and sells Behringer etc. and recommended this amp to me.

 

[beppe61]

I monitor from protools 7.1 software to a Universal Audio 2192 AD/DA converter. Then to an Alesis RA-500 power amp and a samson 120 reference amp. I have 3 sets of nearfields. Yamaha NS10's, Tannoy PB6.5 II's, and Tannoy System 800 actives.
Maybe not audiophile, but it gives me an accurate mix.
For my own personal CD listening enjoyment I run the d/a convertor into 2 Universal Audio 610 tube preamps equipped with Telefunken NOS tubes. And then to the Tannoy System 800's. It gives it a nice glowing sparkle.
Sorry for going off track. I was interested in the Behringer amp. I usually purchase things based on specs then find many reviews on the item and found this thread. The monitoring amp seems to be overlooked alot in studios sometimes. I just wanted to see if I can improve my monitor chain. I am interested in a perfectly flat low power amp for near field monitoring.
As you may know near field monitoring doesn't require alot of power.
But TONS of headroom is a must...
My friend owns a dealership/live sound company and sells Behringer etc. and recommended this amp to me.

Thank you very much Sir for the extremely kind and valuable reply.
I am a fan of Tannoy speakers as well (of the dual-concentric kind of course).
I listened to a pair of old 10" DC Eaton and was very impressed.
To a point that I intend to buy them soon.

Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[Soundbroker]

A-500 Going Up in Price

Hey folks,
I'm a Behringer dealer and was just talking to the Rep this morning. Apparently the A-500, EP-1500 and EP-2500 are all going up in price the next few weeks. He didn't have the new pricing but there you have it.
Oh, and yes, it is a hell of an amp for the bucks!

 

[rynberg]

I find it VERY amusing that the home audio market appears to be embracing these line of amps. Almost no respectable person working in pro audio would touch these with a 10-foot pole. It is fact that Behringer reverse-engineers products from respectable companies and then builds a copy as cheaply as possible. They have been sued and received cease-and-desist orders over more products than you can shake a stick at.

And so many wonder how they can sell a powerful amp for so little.

 

[majorloser]

I find it VERY amusing that the home audio market appears to be embracing these line of amps. Almost no respectable person working in pro audio would touch these with a 10-foot pole. It is fact that Behringer reverse-engineers products from respectable companies and then builds a copy as cheaply as possible. They have been sued and received cease-and-desist orders over more products than you can shake a stick at.

And so many wonder how they can sell a powerful amp for so little.

Maybe so, but I have seven of these amps and I couldn't be happier.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Hmmm, I have been around audio since the late 70's and I have listened to a lot of amps, I can not hear ANYTHING wrong with my six A-500's or my EP-2500. Sudenly, I do not know when an amp sounds good?

I THINK NOT.

That post borders on trolling, or he is an audiosnob or fooled by hype and marketing. Or all of the above.

I certainly know a good deal when I see one.

 

[highfihoney]

I find it VERY amusing that the home audio market appears to be embracing these line of amps. Almost no respectable person working in pro audio would touch these with a 10-foot pole. It is fact that Behringer reverse-engineers products from respectable companies and then builds a copy as cheaply as possible. They have been sued and received cease-and-desist orders over more products than you can shake a stick at.

And so many wonder how they can sell a powerful amp for so little.

What i find amusing is how so very many people who post on the audio forums claim to have knowlage about gear being bad or good but they never post their own personal experience with the gear in question,do you own an a500?

People should stick to posting about gear that they have personal experience with & not some word of mouth or google nonsense,to me your post carries no more weight than the guys who think all amps sound the same.

 

[mulester7]

Behringer reverse-engineers products from respectable companies and then builds a copy as cheaply as possible.

.....do you think they "all" don't do this in one form or another?....do you think they "all" don't have a research department where competitor's products are scrutinized, measured, dissected, and studied?....if they're smart and don't hate money they will....correct, we the consumers are the ones that stand to gain from this......

 

[rynberg]

Hmmm, I have been around audio since the late 70's and I have listened to a lot of amps, I can not hear ANYTHING wrong with my six A-500's or my EP-2500. Sudenly, I do not know when an amp sounds good?.

Did I say anything about the sound quality? Just making an observation about the origin of the current darlings of home theater.

That post borders on trolling, or he is an audiosnob or fooled by hype and marketing. Or all of the above.

What's the matter, the truth hurts? I'm a consultant in the industry, I have no agenda here. Again, just explaining why these amps are so cheap. A little sensitive about your pride of ownership perhaps?

What i find amusing is how so very many people who post on the audio forums claim to have knowlage about gear being bad or good but they never post their own personal experience with the gear in question,do you own an a500?

People should stick to posting about gear that they have personal experience with & not some word of mouth or google nonsense,to me your post carries no more weight than the guys who think all amps sound the same.

You apparently have the same reading comprehension problem as the guy above. Didn't post about the sound quality at all, just the origin of the product, which is FACT. Since you mentioned google, perhaps you could look up how many times Behringer has been sued for outright copying a product. Not only sued, but given a cease-and-desist order by a legal body.

.....do you think they "all" don't do this in one form or another?....do you think they "all" don't have a research department where competitor's products are scrutinized, measured, dissected, and studied?....if they're smart and don't hate money they will....correct, we the consumers are the ones that stand to gain from this......

I don't see QSC or Crown getting sued for copying other companies products...

It's pretty amazing how defensive you guys get just hearing the origins of this product.

 

[mulester7]

I don't see QSC or Crown getting sued for copying other companies products...

.....now you're naming PA amps....some of them are decent in home applications, but they're still PA amps....hey, whatever you think, bud....if I was selling good clean amps that would strap to 440 watts for $178, I guess I would expect other amp companies to come after me any way they could also....by the way, I've got 4 K2's I need to unload, you interested?......

 

[rynberg]

.....now you're naming PA amps....some of them are decent in home applications, but they're still PA amps...

Yeah, they're only "PA" amps, whatever that means. Nope, you never see QSC or Crown amps in studio use.... Behringer amps aren't designed or marketed for home applications either....

.hey, whatever you think, bud....if I was selling good clean amps that would strap to 440 watts for $178, I guess I would expect other amp companies to come after me any way they could also...

Just keep the blindfold on buddy. Why don't you try that google search I suggested?

 

[jeffsg4mac]

hmmm, OK the pro's; quality and hefty power supply, quality output transistors, stable design, beefy heatsinks, balanced and RCA inputs, pro speaker connections, runs cool, runs quiet, rack mountable, sounds as good or the same as any other amp on the market ( yes it does Hifihoney I don't care what you think and yes I have heard Mac amps ) and under 200 bucks for a 130x2 or 500 mono amp. The cons; not the most pretty of amps, needs new knobs, lights need to be disabled for home theater use, Yep he is right, he convinced me. We are blind.

I am afraid we are not the blind ones my esoteric friend.

Now, if find out that Behringer is funding the DemocRATic party then I might reconsider