Bass still perform at a level below my expectation

[Pogre]

What do u think about the Monolith 15? The price is friendly too compare to those SVS.
PB3000 cost around $1.4K with13in driver, PB4000 cost around $1.8K with 13.5in driver, whereas the Monolith cost around $1.3K with 15in drivers.............i read reviews that the Monolith performs really well and easily compete against PB4000 or even the Ultra PB16.

Thinking from a price/performance standpoint

The Monolith subs are reviewing very well, even here at Audioholics. I think they'd be an excellent choice as well.

 

[Pogre]

Also check out the Hsu 15" models, the VTF-3 mk5 and the VTF-15H.

He was giving some info in metric. I'm not sure of their availability for him.

 

[ryanosaur]

What do u think about the Monolith 15? The price is friendly too compare to those SVS.
PB3000 cost around $1.4K with13in driver, PB4000 cost around $1.8K with 13.5in driver, whereas the Monolith cost around $1.3K with 15in drivers.............i read reviews that the Monolith performs really well and easily compete against PB4000 or even the Ultra PB16.

Thinking from a price/performance standpoint

you never answered where you are at. We can give you some better advice if we know... for example Hsu in Canada gets pretty expensive. That said, it might be worth looking at Paradigm Defiance if you are up north.

Mono15" is supposed to be a beast! Alot of these subs on the ID market perform very well, and fairly similar across the spectrum... some may have better mid-bass punch, others better extension. It comes down to personal preference.

 

[KEW]

What do u think about the Monolith 15? The price is friendly too compare to those SVS.
PB3000 cost around $1.4K with13in driver, PB4000 cost around $1.8K with 13.5in driver, whereas the Monolith cost around $1.3K with 15in drivers.............i read reviews that the Monolith performs really well and easily compete against PB4000 or even the Ultra PB16.

Thinking from a price/performance standpoint

As a rule, SVS is one of the more pricey options for subwoofers. Arguably, you are getting some very nice perks in their very generous return and upgrade program, but for bang for buck, Hsu is probably the best, with Outlaw and Monolith as contenders when they are on sale (Hsu does not tend to have major sales).
For all of these prices, I am assuming you are in the US.
Also, there are important benefits to having a pair of subs if you can swing it.
Pogre did a good job of researching and selecting his gear. The dual Hsu's he is running would cost $1750 delivered (in the US), which is likely overkill for your room.
However, a pair of VTF2 mk5's should work fine based on their AH "Bassoholic" Rating of Large (3,000 to 5,000 cu. ft.) in ported mode and Medium (1,500 to 3,000 cu. ft.) in sealed mode. I am assuming your ceiling is 12' since you said high. This would cost $1165 delivered and I think would be a better sounding solution than a single Monolith.
Here is a review of the VTF2 mk5:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/hsu-vtf-2-mk5

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Hey don’t forget Rythmik!!!

Btw, do we even know if the subs are 75db? Or 78, or 72? It sure ypao has it right. Although I aaammmm mos’ def n et laaaay for new subs!!! I thought that early on and still do. While I agree with mark about balance, and that there’s possibly a setup issue with the XO and stuff, those 1000’s are just too small imo. Especially if OP wants to run em a little hot. Like say 80db.

 

[Pogre]

As a rule, SVS is one of the more pricey options for subwoofers. Arguably, you are getting some very nice perks in their very generous return and upgrade program, but for bang for buck, Hsu is probably the best, with Outlaw and Monolith as contenders when they are on sale (Hsu does not tend to have major sales).
For all of these prices, I am assuming you are in the US.
Also, there are important benefits to having a pair of subs if you can swing it.
Pogre did a good job of researching and selecting his gear. The dual Hsu's he is running would cost $1750 delivered (in the US),which is likely overkill for your room.
However, a pair of VTF2 mk5's should work fine based on their AH "Bassoholic" Rating of Large (3,000 to 5,000 cu. ft.) in ported mode and Medium (1,500 to 3,000 cu. ft.) in sealed mode. I am assuming your ceiling is 12' since you said high. This would cost $1165 delivered and I think would be a better sounding solution than a single Monolith.
Here is a review of the VTF2 mk5:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/hsu-vtf-2-mk5

Hey Kew!

I think you might have missed a couple of pieces of info back from a page or 2 ago.

My room size is approx 22ft L X 11ft W (with high ceiling),that's on the rectangular shape. Technically it's a L shape room, but i didn't measure the L shape part since we don't watch from that area.

Here's a screen shot of what i put in. My seat distance is about 4 meters from the speakers, hence 13.1 feets.

The bolded parts lead me to think his room is a bit bigger than he initially said. He didn't account for the "L" shape part of his room. Plus his use of metric tells me he's probably not in the US.

 

[shadyJ]

A few more thoughts for this thread...

It sounds to me like the OP likes hotter bass. One way to promote mid bass is to move the speakers closer to a boundary like a wall. Try experimenting with speaker placement.

Also, try experimenting with subwoofer placement. If there are other places you can move the subs, try those spots to see what they sound like. Try a sub in a near-field placement like right behind the seat or something like that.

For what it's worth, I think the speakers are fine.

 

[Pogre]

A few more thoughts for this thread...

It sounds to me like the OP likes hotter bass. One way to promote mid bass is to move the speakers closer to a boundary like a wall. Try experimenting with speaker placement.

Also, try experimenting with subwoofer placement. If there are other places you can move the subs, try those spots to see what they sound like. Try a sub in a near-field placement like right behind the seat or something like that.

For what it's worth, I think the speakers are fine.

Nearfield would definitely make a difference, but I still think they're too small for his space.

Hey! Do you think moving my towers closer to the wall behind them might improve my 80 - 120 hz mid bass performance so I can set a lower crossover?

 

[Bin]

Thanks everyone for jumping in with loads of great and valuable advice.
And i currently live in the US (California)

I just did a measurement of my living room.
The main room : 24ft X 13ft
The L shape (2nd room) : 12ft X 12ft

We never watch movie from the L shape section, but i understand that i need to take that into account as well in terms of pressure from the sub.

From a cost, seems like SVS isn't the way to go since it's s pricey.
If possible, my budget is around $1.5K or less.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks everyone for jumping in with loads of great and valuable advice.
And i currently live in the US (California)

I just did a measurement of my living room.
The main room : 24ft X 13ft
The L shape (2nd room) : 12ft X 12ft

We never watch movie from the L shape section, but i understand that i need to take that into account as well in terms of pressure from the sub.

From a cost, seems like SVS isn't the way to go since it's s pricey.
If possible, my budget is around $1.5K or less.

If you're in California then Hsu is a no brainer. Especially if you live within driving distance. I think you can get most bang for your buck with Hsu for sure. Especially if you can make the drive to Anaheim, then you can skip paying for shipping and get 2 VTF-3 MK5s on your budget.

 

[lovinthehd]

Altho being in CA and buying from a CA company you do have significant sales tax....

 

[KEW]

Hey Kew!

I think you might have missed a couple of pieces of info back from a page or 2 ago.


The bolded parts lead me to think his room is a bit bigger than he initially said. He didn't account for the "L" shape part of his room. Plus his use of metric tells me he's probably not in the US.

You are right, I missed the connected area of the L shape.
Thanks for the correction!

 

[Bin]

This forum is awesome, i get great advice from many people .

Attach is a picture of how i place my speakers now.
Today, i am going to try to make a swap between the towers and the woofers.........towers will be on the outer and woofer inner closer to the cabinet. Will test and see how it sound like.

 

[Pogre]

This forum is awesome, i get great advice from many people .

Attach is a picture of how i place my speakers now.
Today, i am going to try to make a swap between the towers and the woofers.........towers will be on the outer and woofer inner closer to the cabinet. Will test and see how it sound like.

That might help. Have you tried to contact HSU yet? You can set up an appointment and meet with them. They're more than happy to show you around and can work with you on what would work best in your space. Dr Hsu has even been known to go to a customer's home (not saying he does this for everyone, but he has done it) to help with finding best placement options. When i bought mine I wish I lived in California or at least closer to Anaheim. I could have saved a bundle on shipping.

 

[Bin]

That might help. Have you tried to contact HSU yet? You can set up an appointment and meet with them. They're more than happy to show you around and can work with you on what would work best in your space. Dr Hsu has even been known to go to a customer's home (not saying he does this for everyone, but he has done it) to help with finding best placement options. When i bought mine I wish I lived in California or at least closer to Anaheim. I could have saved a bundle on shipping.

I am holding back on changing the sub, because after i change the crossover to 80hz on my towers, with the same setting on my PB1000, surprisingly i got a little more punch now.

I guess this is mainly due to the Polk speakers being so new, and they need about 80 hours to break in.......i think they haven't reach the 10hours playing time yet after 3 days of owning them .

I will continue to monitor after more hours going into the speakers.

 

[Pogre]

I am holding back on changing the sub, because after i change the crossover to 80hz on my towers, with the same setting on my PB1000, surprisingly i got a little more punch now.

Its not surprising to me. I told you a few posts back that a higher crossover setting should give you more mid bass punch. You're only surprised because you didn't believe me! You should try 100 Hz or higher like TLS suggested and see if that helps even more.

Speaker break in isn't really a thing either. There's an article here where you can read up if you like, but basically your speakers are "broken in" after the first few seconds with a slight caveat for subwoofers with stiff surrounds. Even then it's not a huge difference.

I do not understand, and it's not just you, why so many people are ready and willing to drop a big wad of cash on an amplifier that won't improve anything, but fight buying a good subwoofer or 2 that will most definitely improve things?

 

[Bin]

Its not surprising to me. I told you a few posts back that a higher crossover setting should give you more mid bass punch. You're only surprised because you didn't believe me! You should try 100 Hz or higher like TLS suggested and see if that helps even more.

Speaker break in isn't really a thing either. There's an article here where you can read up if you like, but basically your speakers are "broken in" after the first few seconds with a slight caveat for subwoofers with stiff surrounds. Even then it's not a huge difference.

I do not understand, and it's not just you, why so many people are ready and willing to drop a big wad of cash on an amplifier that won't improve anything, but fight buying a good subwoofer or 2 that will most definitely improve things?

LOL on your last paragraph.........yeah that's the main reason i am here in this forum.

I have read so many articles people talking about day and night difference by adding an amp. But then, i used the calculator to calculate before, that my AVR should be able to support my speakers even the power rating on the AVR is low at 95wcp X 2.......since i don't play at such a high volume.
Hence i held off on buying an amp and get expert advice here which it helps a lot.

Then now we got into the woofer underpower discussion........on my very 1st day of using the speakers, i am 101% sure that i crossed the speakers at 80hz and the bass was just so underwhelming. That's why i changed it to 60hz, and it improved a little bit.
But after many discussions here yesterday in this post, i went back home on my 3rd day of using it and change the xo back to 80hz, surprisingly it did performed better than my 1st day of testing which i did it on 80hz as well.

So i came to a conclusion that i may also hold off of investing in larger woofer for now until i fully test out the placement of my towers (which i showed you earlier in my picture by swapping position)........and play around the crossover.
If i am still not content with the punch, then i will visit HSU .

Guess what, getting a larger sub need an approval from the QUEEN of the house...lol.

 

[snakeeyes]

Its not surprising to me. I told you a few posts back that a higher crossover setting should give you more mid bass punch. You're only surprised because you didn't believe me! You should try 100 Hz or higher like TLS suggested and see if that helps even more.

Speaker break in isn't really a thing either. There's an article here where you can read up if you like, but basically your speakers are "broken in" after the first few seconds with a slight caveat for subwoofers with stiff surrounds. Even then it's not a huge difference.

I do not understand, and it's not just you, why so many people are ready and willing to drop a big wad of cash on an amplifier that won't improve anything, but fight buying a good subwoofer or 2 that will most definitely improve things?

Ya only takes a second to try a few crossover settings.

 

[Pogre]

LOL on your last paragraph.........yeah that's the main reason i am here in this forum.

I have read so many articles people talking about day and night difference by adding an amp. But then, i used the calculator to calculate before, that my AVR should be able to support my speakers even the power rating on the AVR is low at 95wcp X 2.......since i don't play at such a high volume.
Hence i held off on buying an amp and get expert advice here which it helps a lot.

Then now we got into the woofer underpower discussion........on my very 1st day of using the speakers, i am 101% sure that i crossed the speakers at 80hz and the bass was just so underwhelming. That's why i changed it to 60hz, and it improved a little bit.
But after many discussions here yesterday in this post, i went back home on my 3rd day of using it and change the xo back to 80hz, surprisingly it did performed better than my 1st day of testing which i did it on 80hz as well.

So i came to a conclusion that i may also hold off of investing in larger woofer for now until i fully test out the placement of my towers (which i showed you earlier in my picture by swapping position)........and play around the crossover.
If i am still not content with the punch, then i will visit HSU .

Guess what, getting a larger sub need an approval from the QUEEN of the house...lol.

What you're proposing to do, experiment with placement and trying different spots is a very good idea and I wish more people would ty it before buying new gear. I think a lot of times folks will be disappointed and not really even have their system's full potential realized with what they have so good on you for that. I think there's a good chance you'll be able to improve things.

I also give you props for taking the advice on not getting a bigger amplifier. A lot of guys just don't like hearing that and some will even post multiple threads asking the same question, worded just a little bit differently (even very recently...).

@shadyJ suggested trying a nearfield approach. If you can get one or both subs right against your seat, or even firing directly into the back of your seat actually works really well, but might be limited to only a couple of seats.

 

[Bin]

Ok after changing position and crossed it at 90hz, I think this might be a sweet spot.

The bass "move" a bit more now . I like it, not too heavy/light and not as boomy like previous......I also changed the volume nob to 1 o'clock and YPAO adjusted to +1db, so I leave it.
I only test this on songs now, will test later using Atmos material film.

Although the woofers aren't vibrating as i like, but i think it's sufficient for now until my next upgrade itchiness come...lol.
By that time, i might think about upgrading the AVR itself.....assess between Yamaha/Denon, i think Denon is a better one for HT set up, Yamaha YPAO tends to tame down the bass portion.