B&W 802D: 3rd Time's a Charm on Friday the 13th

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Beyond the hype, my a**.

(Btw, we use a lot of grins...)

I guess we're happy.

We'll those bananas were originally for the Phil3. I was too cheap buy new ones. So the 802 get the same old bananas, while the Phil3 get bare wire.

At least I didn't buy new Kimber or Audioquest for the 802.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What could possibly go wrong?

At least not twice in a row

But you set yourself up with that Friday the 13th nonsense.

Just one more day until I get the 802. But who's counting?

Never thought Friday the 13th was going to bite me.

But actually, as PENG and Irvrobinson would agree, it was a blessing in disguise. Instead of getting 802D1, I ended up with 802D2.

Can't reveal the $$ until I get the 802D2 installed in my room - bananas plugged and music playing and everything.

 

[Jeepers]

Just one more day until I get the 802. But who's counting?

Never thought Friday the 13th was going to bite me.

But actually, as PENG and Irvrobinson would agree, it was a blessing in disguise. Instead of getting 802D1, I ended up with 802D2.

Can't reveal the $$ until I get the 802D2 installed in my room - bananas plugged and music playing and everything.

Don't expect too much right out of the box; they need to break in as I already mentioned. My dealer was not that impressed after he hooked them up. It took roughly a month or 2 for them to sound right...to my ears. I have a wooden floor in my living room so after having installed some granite absorber plates, spikes and spike bases; they sound even better and I am quite happy.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Don't expect too much right out of the box; they need to break in as I already mentioned. My dealer was not that impressed after he hooked them up. It took roughly a month or 2 for them to sound right...to my ears. I have a wooden floor in my living room so after having installed some granite absorber plates, spikes and spike bases; they sound even better and I am quite happy.

More likely it was your brain breaking in, not the speakers.

 

[jinjuku]

Don't expect too much right out of the box; they need to break in as I already mentioned. My dealer was not that impressed after he hooked them up. It took roughly a month or 2 for them to sound right...to my ears. I have a wooden floor in my living room so after having installed some granite absorber plates, spikes and spike bases; they sound even better and I am quite happy.

Uhg. Look any driver warm up (loosening of the suspension etc) is going to take place in the first hours of being played.

A lot of the DIY speaker designers will let the speaker play for a bit to loosen them up and then take T/S and other measurements. They don't have to wait MONTHS. Sorry this stuff just bugs me because there is never any valid measurement from the speaker being out of box and then at the 2 month mark.

And BTW, capacitors do not break in. They simply start degrading.

 

[Jeepers]

More likely it was your brain breaking in, not the speakers.

Hilarious.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't expect too much right out of the box; they need to break in as I already mentioned. My dealer was not that impressed after he hooked them up. It took roughly a month or 2 for them to sound right...to my ears. I have a wooden floor in my living room so after having installed some granite absorber plates, spikes and spike bases; they sound even better and I am quite happy.

More likely it was your brain breaking in, not the speakers.

Kal Rubinson owns 800D2 x 3. He also believes it is the brain that "adapts" to the sound, not the speakers physically changing. Kal says proper speaker placement and good acoustics are most important - even more important than amps.

I'm going to have to agree with the contributing editor of Stereophile on this subject.

I think speakers' drivers do physically change a little during "breakin-in" because KEF engineers say this and so do some speakers designers/ builders. But I don't know if the change is all that significant to be audible.

I have heard changes in speaker sounds, but it was 100% immediate and was due to placements or RC/ EQ/ DSP, not speaker break-in.

However, I will not say that I am 100% correct and people who believe in speaker break-in are 100% wrong.

Oh, and I love the rollers on the 802s. No spikes for my 802s. I love the wheels.

Today should be the moment of truth. 3-4 pm. If you don't hear anything from me for a while, you know why.

 

[Jeepers]

Uhg. Look any driver warm up (loosening of the suspension etc) is going to take place in the first hours of being played.

A lot of the DIY speaker designers will let the speaker play for a bit to loosen them up and then take T/S and other measurements. They don't have to wait MONTHS. Sorry this stuff just bugs me because there is never any valid measurement from the speaker being out of box and then at the 2 month mark.

And BTW, capacitors do not break in. They simply start degrading.

A few hours only... good for you and AcuDefTechGuy.
Indeed there is no measurement for this; it all depends how one perceives the sound to evolve over time.

 

[jinjuku]

A few hours only... good for you and AcuDefTechGuy.
Indeed there is no measurement for this; it all depends how one perceives the sound to evolve over time.

As long as we are talking about perception and opinion I'm fine with that. What I would be willing to place $$ on is that if I took a pair of 802D's with 2 months on them and a pair with one day on them you would be hard pressed to hang on to your cash when telling me which is which.

You don't even need an 'expensive' set of speakers to do this comparison.

 

[Adam]

I don't view the concept of mentally adjusting to something to be insulting. I certainly do that, so I'll speak for myself. Whenever I change something around me, I adjust to it. Some things take longer than others. When I bought my second car in 2010, I had a bit of regret because there were things that I didn't like. Over the weeks, I adjusted to them and began to like them. Call it "car break in" if you want, but I don't think that happened.

Maybe speakers break in, maybe they don't. I figure if someone is happy with what they have, regardless of the reason, then it's all good.

Oh, and yeah...I'm jealous of you folks that have these.

 

[jinjuku]

Maybe speakers break in, maybe they don't. I figure if someone is happy with what they have, regardless of the reason, then it's all good.

I can only speak for myself that in all the DIY that I do I have come to a place where I want to be brutally honest with myself in the chase of better sound.

Anecdotal accounting of things like break in and burn in actually waylay the experience. It's a zero honesty (self honesty) and zero net gain. If your understanding of the fundamentals are wrong. If perceptions are based on voodoo then HOW, HOW can you expect to move forward and deal with the stuff, the errata that really are important.

My issue with this '2 month' break in BS is that if you really wanted to. If you really DESIRED to KNOW. You could. You could get a friend involved and pick up a set of speakers. Pull ONE speaker out of a box and let it play on and off for a month or two. Then pull the 2nd one out let a friend hook it up and then blind have them switch or not switch it around.

Lie to yourself all you want, just don't pass it off as matter of fact to the unawares.

 

[Adam]

I completely understand the scientific argument against making such statements without anything to back it up, as well as the negative view of believing such things without any personal testing. As a speaker builder, your perspective is different than mine, as I am only a consumer.

I don't tend to believe that speakers change sonic qualities much in the first few days/weeks after unboxing them, either. I'm sure that I was just trying in a small way to prevent the almost inevitable downslide of this thread into a speaker break in debate.

If I was a builder like you, then I would also be much more serious about such comments. Not being a builder, I give myself the luxury to be content with happiness.

 

[jinjuku]

If you have to CONVINCE yourself that the money you spent was well spent....

I'd rather know. Again please understand that I am asking someone to simply be willing to experiment so learning can take place. They may break in one speaker for two months and have a friend switch them around with one that has only been played for one day. They may even follow the bouncing ball. That is all that is being asked.

The reality is that all of us have broken in speakers and burned in cables. Every single one of us.

 

[Adam]

If you have to CONVINCE yourself that that money you spent was well spent....

I'd rather know.

Ahhh, now there's a concept that goes well beyond speakers. Like I mentioned, it can apply to many things for me. Some things, I know right away that I made a good choice. Mostly for more expensive purchases, I have a personal mental break in period as I decide if what I got was worth what I gave up (i.e. funds to buy other things). My first car - loved it from the drive home. My second car - had to adjust a bit, but I have to say that I've been a lot more relaxed driving it than my Prelude. My house - had to wrap my brain around long-term debt on that one, but I got used to it pretty fast.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't view the concept of mentally adjusting to something to be insulting. I certainly do that, so I'll speak for myself. Whenever I change something around me, I adjust to it. Some things take longer than others. When I bought my second car in 2010, I had a bit of regret because there were things that I didn't like. Over the weeks, I adjusted to them and began to like them. Call it "car break in" if you want, but I don't think that happened.

Maybe speakers break in, maybe they don't. I figure if someone is happy with what they have, regardless of the reason, then it's all good.

Oh, and yeah...I'm jealous of you folks that have these.

Yeah, change is something.

And if Jeepers or anyone else believe in speaker break-in (like engineers from KEF, Vandersteen, etc), that's cool too. Personally, I have no desire to prove that I'm correct and others are wrong. This is audio. I just tell myself that I'm right.

 

[slipperybidness]

Yeah, the proof is in the measurements.

However, I think there MUST be some breaking-in during the first few days, at least. Just the very nature of the polymers and materials used in surrounds construction will take some movement and use to get to their final elasticity. Any polymer will have solvent molecules trapped in its molecular structure from the manufacturing process. That is just the way it works. As the polymer moves and stretches, some of those solvents and elastomers that were trapped in the long molecules of the surround material will be freed to volatize into the atmosphere. A great example of this outgassing is that "new car smell". For the record, I am a chemist.

Now, is it audible? I would like to see some measurements on it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

One doesn't have to look very far for measured results, like right here

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, the proof is in the measurements.

However, I think there MUST be some breaking-in during the first few days, at least. Just the very nature of the polymers and materials used in surrounds construction will take some movement and use to get to their final elasticity. Any polymer will have solvent molecules trapped in its molecular structure from the manufacturing process. That is just the way it works. As the polymer moves and stretches, some of those solvents and elastomers that were trapped in the long molecules of the surround material will be freed to volatize into the atmosphere. A great example of this outgassing is that "new car smell". For the record, I am a chemist.

Now, is it audible? I would like to see some measurements on it.

Doh!

I was going to say "Chemistry much?" until I read the end.

Yeah, I really loved Organic Chemistry 1 & 2 and also Biochemistry. NOT.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just talked to the delivery "A" team (Ron).

He said, "I can guarantee you that on my delivery, everything will be perfect."

I guess he heard about the B team eexperience.

ETA 4 hrs and counting.

 

[slipperybidness]

Just talked to the delivery "A" team (Ron).

He said, "I can guarantee you that on my delivery, everything will be perfect."

I guess he heard about the B team eexperience.

ETA 4 hrs and counting.

That first delivery team may have been the "A" team until you got them demoted to the "B" team