Audioquest Cable EXPERIENCE

[Jon@StereoOne]

I am a new member to this forum and have some thoughts I would like to share. I have read a number of threads on high end cables are snake oil and have a few "REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES" I would like to share.
To preface my comments I am troubled by anyone who is close minded enough to look only at numbers on paper or readings on a machine. Has anyone else seen an obviously inferior television have great numbers on paper (resolution, contrast, ect.) that was smoked by a much better picture by something that was backed by better quality components and better video processing? For example: Pioneer Elite Pro-1130 vs. Westinghouse 1080p LCD. On paper the 1080p is twice the resolution. More pixels = better picture, right? WRONG. The pioneer plasma's black level, contrast, video processing will absolutely destroy the LCD on any source. Anyone that has seen this side by side and would disagree I encourage feedback.
Back to cables- I would challenge anyone who would subscribe to the belief that all high end cables are snake oil to take 5 minutes being open minded enough to listen to a proper A/B comparison with a quick switcher to make up their own mind. This supposed placebo effect that I see referred to is hard for me to swallow with the huge differences I have personally heard. I have taken very good product ex: Klipsch RB75 bookshelfs already wired with monster cable inside and rewired internally with CV-4.2 Audioquest and had multiple blind folded listeners NEVER pick the wrong set when asked which speaker sounded better. These every day "Real life experiences" are very hard to ignore if anyone will actually take the time to visit a professional and simply close your eyes and listen and then be prepared to make a more qualified opinion. I find sound as a very taste oriented area. Why else could their be so many successful speaker manufacturers. We all hear different, and like to listen to different music. I am not claiming what speaker or wire is best, only that to claim it does not make a difference is ludicrous. When you have the opportunity to hear a smeared top end become liquid and clean and hear bass response extend more and the image double in size, it is very hard to ignore. If someone wishes to really learn what does and doesn't actually perform I simply encourage all of you to get out from behind your computer and actually LISTEN TO THE DIFFERENCE. You may or may not prefer the difference, to say there is none; well you would have to be deaf. So there is my 2 cents for now I look forward to everyone's feedback.

 

[Duffinator]

For example: Pioneer Elite Pro-1130 vs. Westinghouse 1080p LCD. On paper the 1080p is twice the resolution. More pixels = better picture, right? WRONG. The pioneer plasma's black level, contrast, video processing will absolutely destroy the LCD on any source. Anyone that has seen this side by side and would disagree I encourage feedback.

First, this a horrible comparison. You're comparing a $7,000 TV to a $1,500 TV??? That makes a lot of sense. I've never read on this forum anybody saying 1080P is always better than 720P in all cases. But if done properly with the same quality deinterlacer and scaler on a quality display with 1080 and 720 resolutions a 1080 resolution should look better. And I'm a BIG skeptic of speaker cables making much if any difference. While I'm open to there being some small differences from junk to quality cables the law of diminishing returns applies very quickly when comparing a quality cable to a megabucks snake oil cable. I'd be happy to read any articles you post where participants in a double blind test were able to accurately differentiate between quality cables.

 

[Sheep]

Why is it that almost everyones first posts these days are threats? I don't get it.

Way to start on the right foot there Jon. So these cables made the speaker have better bass extention? They made an 8 inch woofer hit 10Hz? Liquid and clean? Sounds like a washing machine to me. You should measure this test, and then, by all means, I will support your "thesis".

People do measurements, because things that are inaudible, are still measureable. The mind likes to play tricks on you when you expect something to perform better. For istance, you buy a 1000 dollar speaker wire, and compare it to some 12ga zip cord. You will expect the 1000 dollar wire to sound better, and because it cost a 1000 bucks, your mind will make you think its better. If the cables measure the same, then who looks stupid now? The guy who spent 20 cents a foot, or the guy who spent 200?

SheepStar

 

[gene]

Jon sounds like a pissed off dealer whose clients referenced a few of our articles and told him they didn't buy into high end cables

 

[sokrman14]

I am a firm believer that everyone hears and sees things differently and everyone has different preferences. I, myself, am a believer in Audioquest cables as well, and I dont care whether everyone else is. It doesnt mean I dont think they are outrageously priced, because they are. I am just here to get a better understanding and knowledge of all products, including cables, out there. I wish people wouldn't rag on other people for their point of views though, including the administrator of the site.

 

[Duffinator]

Jon sounds like a pissed off dealer whose clients referenced a few of our articles and told him they didn't buy into high end cables

I was thinking along those lines as well. Could this be it?

http://www.stereoone.com/

 

[Sheep]

I am a firm believer that everyone hears and sees things differently and everyone has different preferences. I, myself, am a believer in Audioquest cables as well, and I dont care whether everyone else is. It doesnt mean I dont think they are outrageously priced, because they are. I am just here to get a better understanding and knowledge of all products, including cables, out there. I wish people wouldn't rag on other people for their point of views though, including the administrator of the site.

When you make claims like the cables gave a liquid high end and better bass extension, your asking to be the butt of some jokes.

SheepStar

 

[jaxvon]

I am a firm believer that everyone hears and sees things differently and everyone has different preferences. I, myself, am a believer in Audioquest cables as well, and I dont care whether everyone else is. It doesnt mean I dont think they are outrageously priced, because they are. I am just here to get a better understanding and knowledge of all products, including cables, out there. I wish people wouldn't rag on other people for their point of views though, including the administrator of the site.

Here, some reading material:

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/cables.htm

 

[Tom Andry]

That was troll-tastic!

 

[JVC]

He's hiding spam, in a real looking and sounding thread. He's trying to sell Audioquest cables.
I've done a comparison with some Monster cables, that cost around $60 to $80 (don't know the exact price), and some Phillips cables from Wal Mart, that cost $20+, and me, nor anyone else there (three other people), could hear a difference. $20 cables sound better than $6 cables, because of the gold connectors and better insulation. But $100 cables don't sound any better than $20 cables (the ones I've heard anyway). I've read where lots of people have done comparisons, and couldn't hear a difference. If you can hear a difference, more power to you!

 

[sokrman14]

I don't like to only go off specs and reviews. Honestly, most reviews are just biased opinions from some respected people in the audio world. The only way to know if you like something is by going out and listening to them yourself. I happen to be one of those that can hear and see the difference between a $20 and $100 cable, and more. No, im not a salesman so im not trying to sell monster or audioquest. And I still think both are outrageously priced. But "in my opinion" audioquest are better cables. I don't care how much you hear about snake oil or whatever, it is all opinion based. There are some speakers you guys might think are great, that I think are crap, it is mostly just opinion in this world of audio and video. I come to this site to find others opinions and get feedback which matches my opinion, but that doesnt always happen.
I agree with Jon, get out from behind this place and go listen to them. Just as everyone says I hear a difference because I want to, well you don't hear one because you can't afford the better cables. Audio is expensive, its not for everyone.

 

[Duffinator]

I don't like to only go off specs and reviews. Honestly, most reviews are just biased opinions from some respected people in the audio world. The only way to know if you like something is by going out and listening to them yourself. I happen to be one of those that can hear and see the difference between a $20 and $100 cable, and more. No, im not a salesman so im not trying to sell monster or audioquest. And I still think both are outrageously priced. But "in my opinion" audioquest are better cables. I don't care how much you hear about snake oil or whatever, it is all opinion based. There are some speakers you guys might think are great, that I think are crap, it is mostly just opinion in this world of audio and video. I come to this site to find others opinions and get feedback which matches my opinion, but that doesnt always happen.
I agree with Jon, get out from behind this place and go listen to them. Just as everyone says I hear a difference because I want to, well you don't hear one because you can't afford the better cables. Audio is expensive, its not for everyone.

You're right, it's all about everyone's opinions. But we are talking about a piece of wire here. 12 ga. vs. 12 ga. vs. 12 ga. speaker wire, if they are all good quality there shouldn't be much of a sonic difference if any.

What do you bet that Jon never comes back to respond. Bait, bait.

 

[sokrman14]

I can agree with that about the better gauges. There is also how it is stranded, whether there are 1000 tiny strands braided, or maybe 10 solid strands. Also different metals are better conductors. Which means different metals will bring out different sounds than do others. But you are right 12 ga is 12 ga.

 

[Sheep]

I can agree with that about the better gauges. There is also how it is stranded, whether there are 1000 tiny strands braided, or maybe 10 solid strands. Also different metals are better conductors. Which means different metals will bring out different sounds than do others. But you are right 12 ga is 12 ga.

Silver is the Best, Copper is second best, off by a couple points. Silver costs a butt-load. Copper is given away on street corners. All you need to do is cover the ends so they don't corrode. Cables are extremely cheap to make, and they are extremely easy to get right. I don't know how you can spend that much, when you know regular wire works fine.

Oh BTW, solid conductors make no difference over stranded. The only difference is stranded is more flexible.

SheepStar

 

[Vancouver]

Here is the best test. If a dealer tries to sell you expensive cables tell him you are more then happy to buy the best most expensive ones he has if HE can pass a blind test. Switch the cheap cables with the exensive ones and see if he can gues which is which 9 out of 10 times...hell he should be able to guess which is which 10 out of 10 times for the price difference. in fact I would ask to invite every person working in the store to join the test.

Tell them that on the flip side if they fail the test they have to give you the more expensive speaker cable for free.

Watch them studder when you bring up the that logical, mutually benfitial win win situation.

ask him to explain why he wouldnt take the test is he says no.

 

[highfihoney]

I accept your challenge!

i own a pair of audioquest cheeta's along with numerous other cable's & power cord's,i also used to sell used high end gear in my spare time so access to different equipment was not a problem.

ive done the comparison that you are reccomending,here is the gear used.

mcintosh c2200 tube preamp.
mcintosh c-38 solid state preamp.

mcintosh mc2102 tube amp @ 100 wpc/ mcintosh mc500 solid state amp @ 500 wpc / golden tube se 40 se tube amp @ 40 wpc.

mcintosh mvp 841 cd/dvd player & mcintosh mvp 831 cd/dvd player.

mcintosh xrt 22 speaker's / klipsch corner horn speaker's / jbl l250 ti speaker's.

the cable's auditioned were as follow's.

audioquest cheeta's & radio shack gold .

we started out with the c2200 preamp & mc500 amp,both cd player's have the exact same cd playback so model #'s were not an issue,both the mvp 841 & mvp 831 were in the system with one player being connected via the audioquest & the other via the radio shack,the speaker's were the xrt 22's.

for reference the cd's used were frank zappa jazz from hell,zappa was well known for excellent recording's,both player's were loaded with duplicate disc's & play was pushed starting both disc's simultaneously,i then switched back & forth between player's via the remote

both cable's were auditioned with no direct difference's or benifit's.

the solid state amp was then switched for the mc2102 tube amp & the audition process ran again,once again no noticable change's or benifit's except that's when i realized i was tired of that amp & decided to sell it but there was zero difference's between cable's.

the amp was once again switched with the golden tube se 40 se,once again with no change's or benifit's.

at that point we got bored as hell listening to the same song over & over so we just started playing random disc's & switching between different preamp amp combonation's & switching speaker system's also,we spent the better part of the day fooling around playing music & trying different combo's,no matter what combination of gear we used both me & my friend who is also into audio pretty heavy heard nothing,speaker wire's were also randomly switched from my home made wire's to accoustic zen wire's,once again zero difference or noticable benifit's.

i was very fortunate for several year's to be able to try some of the best gear on the market from many manufacturer's plus to try quite a few different exotic cable's & i walked away with the knowledge that my cash can be way better spent buying gear or music.

below is a link to a site with other wire test's including wire test's done by mcintosh & their director (retired) of accoustic research,he also explain's why the mcintosh company gave up trying to tell people the truth about cable's,it's a good read

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

i know you think you hear increased everything but i never did & neither did my friend,i do randomly switch cable's in my rig,not to hear benifit's but only to assure that the terminal's stay clean & that i have good connection's.

have a good evening

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am a firm believer that everyone hears and sees things differently and everyone has different preferences.

You bet everyone has different preferences.
You are right also that we hear and see differently. But, these latter two are very testable in an objective manner, would you disagree?
And, since it is testable, science has and continue to test these senses and know a whole lot about them.
One thing is for sure, human senses can be fooled easily.




I, myself, am a believer in Audioquest cables as well, and I dont care whether everyone else is.

I believe in cables too. Tried without them and didn't like the outcome. Now, I have nothing against Audioquest, after all they want to make money, not in the business of charity, right. But, from the above response about what can be measured and tested, I rather not spend much on cables and cable names don't impress me much.


I am just here to get a better understanding and knowledge of all products, including cables, out there.

If you really mean this, you came to the right place. But, you need an open mind and be prepared to admit that maybe you had been misled before. If not ready, you are at the wrong place

I wish people wouldn't rag on other people for their point of views though, including the administrator of the site.

I bet it is the testable claims made that is being questioned so vehemently.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am a new member to this forum and have some thoughts I would like to share.

Welcome, Jon. We are here for your thoughts, especially if there are new thoughts there to share with us.

I have read a number of threads on high end cables are snake oil and have a few "REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES" I would like to share.

I bet we have real life experiences to share as well, in all these posts you have read or planning on reading; we have a few for you to catch up on, especially in the technical library of this site.

To preface my comments I am troubled by anyone who is close minded enough to look only at numbers on paper or readings on a machine.

Hey, Jon, this is a great first post. Bound to win you more enemies than friends. Have you given any thoughts that perhaps you may be the one with a closed mind???

Has anyone else seen an obviously inferior television have great numbers on paper (resolution, contrast, ect.) that was smoked by a much better picture by something that was backed by better quality components and better video processing?

Well, at least you didn't bring up the old car analogies. What a guy. But not a good analogy, never the less.

Back to cables- I would challenge anyone who would subscribe to the belief that all high end cables are snake oil to take 5 minutes being open minded enough to listen to a proper A/B comparison with a quick switcher to make up their own mind.

That is not a challenge but a requirement to compare cables under bias controlled conditions, using only your ears, not your eyes, right. Why do you think we have come to the conclusion about cables and snake oil claims are synonymous? Yes, you are correct, through listening comparisons. Bravo.

This supposed placebo effect that I see referred to is hard for me to swallow

You need to get out more, expand your reading into the placebo effect and how it works, what is needed to minimize it, how science has found a way to minimize its effects. there is a huge library out there on science and human psychology.

with the huge differences I have personally heard.

Well, it is like this, Jon. You perceived something for sure. What that was has yet to be established by you so who knows what was really heard' no one knows.

I have taken very good product ex: Klipsch RB75 bookshelfs already wired with monster cable inside and rewired internally with CV-4.2 Audioquest and had multiple blind folded listeners NEVER pick the wrong set when asked which speaker sounded better.

You call this a valid comparison??? No wonder it supports your beliefs.

These every day "Real life experiences" are very hard to ignore if anyone will actually take the time to visit a professional and simply close your eyes and listen and then be prepared to make a more qualified opinion.

You mean a professional like you? Oh, it is very easy to ignore such anecdotes and testimonials. Flawed.


Why else could their be so many successful speaker manufacturers.

Why are there so many vitamin peddlers out there? So many psychics out there? Because, humans are so gullible maybe???

We all hear different, and like to listen to different music.

What does that have to do with all those speaker makers??? Nothing.

I am not claiming what speaker or wire is best,

Good thing.

only that to claim it does not make a difference is ludicrous.

Very bad thing to claim with no evidence, credible evidence in hand.

If someone wishes to really learn what does and doesn't actually perform I simply encourage all of you to get out from behind your computer and actually LISTEN TO THE DIFFERENCE.

I encourage you to read more, more science, what is known, in the natural world. Is that a deal???

to say there is none; well you would have to be deaf.

No, you have to establish that there is one. You have not. Actually, no one has in 30+ years of trying. Are you ready to open your mind???

now I look forward to everyone's feedback.

I bet.

 

[mulester7]

You bet everyone has different preferences.
You are right also that we hear and see differently. But, these latter two are very testable in an objective manner, would you disagree?
And, since it is testable, science has and continue to test these senses and know a whole lot about them.
One thing is for sure, human senses can be fooled easily.I bet it is the testable claims made that is being questioned so vehemently.

....Mtry, you are only discouraging responses of what someone heard in their sound quality, with them describing the hearing as best they could....it's like you're saying, "I don't want to hear any comments, at all, about your sound quality, because you can't prove you heard it firstly, and secondly, you can't describe what you heard as well as Richard Pierce could"....I wish more people would just speak up and ignore ya', bud......

 

[Duffinator]

....Mtry, you are only discouraging responses of what someone heard in their sound quality, with them describing the hearing as best they could....it's like you're saying, "I don't want to hear any comments, at all, about your sound quality, because you can't prove you heard it firstly, and secondly, you can't describe what you heard as well as Richard Pierce could"....I wish more people would just speak up and ignore ya', bud......

Mule, you got to give Mtry credit, he NEVER wavers from his convictions. Mtry, with your steadfast convictions and discipline on sticking with science you would make a good portfolio manager. We should open up a hedge fund and we'll make millions. Do you know anything about financial engineering, quantitative modeling, or programming in Matlab???