Audiophile Cable Synergy: Real or Snake Oil?

[Otto Pylot]

No, they're just prettier in bright light.

Hmmm, I could shine a small light on them and the reflection would make a nice bias light. Good idea!

 

[audioworkshop]

Actually, Pauls response was based on years of hands-on design and manufacture, designing audio equipment is like gourmet cooking, you have to taste it while cooking or in this case listen to your designs. But that does not apply to cables! cables are passive, not active, and although they do interact with electronic circuitry their effect should be nill, or else you're inducing some sort of anomalies that is actually changing the waveform and that's bad! So if someone actually did hear a difference that difference should be measurable because of the relatively small bandwidth of the audio spectrum. Like Gene I have worked in Electronics all my life building my first HiFi from an allied radio KNight kit in 1959, I still have some of those early stereo demo records somewhere I played them ad nausea for hours on end. The only thing I found to enhance the sound back then was adding a "Nickle" to my Garrard turntable arm to increase the weight ... yes, worked better than cables! When I was selling a lot of stereo equipment in the '80s and 90's I would mess with the golden ear audiophiles that came in my shop by challenging them to discern the difference between cables... I would go in back of the display and say ok now I've change cables, but I never did, and they would to a man swear that they could hear a difference. I would do this with everything and nobody ever caught on, except when I told them what I did, then I would never see any of them again! So I just let them live their illusion, I still hear this nonsense today from golden ears who by some act of god have been born with greater hearing ability than you, these are the same guys who can't live without ketchup. So I'm siding with Gene on this one good cable is a prerequisite but exotic expensive cabling is driven by greed arrogance and disinformation... in a word junk science

 

[davidscott]

in a word junk science
A new catch phrase? Love it.

 

[Oldoiler]

This is a great Audioholics article and frankly, I'm surprised that there are so many scam artists selling this BS.

I've been into higher end audio since the 1990's. I'll be honest, I buy "higher end" interconnects and cables all around. Do they sound any better? Absolutely not. I buy them for the quality and the fact that they look better with the rest of the higher end gear. No other reason.

I've gotten to where I simply can't read or participate in Audiogon anymore. It is so full of sh1t. It is unbelievable what those folks say in there. People wanting to "rewire" portions of their house with "higher end" wire. Why stop there? Why not get a golden cable laid all the way from the power company. What difference is a certain length in the house going to make if you still have a weak link from the power company. If anyone ever challenges them to a double blind test, they always come back with some mumbo jumbo voodoo BS that makes no sense in order to discount any DBT.

The absurdness about power cables. You mean to tell me that these multi thousand dollar audio gear companies have made what they believe is their "holy grail" product, only to end up being inferior, because they failed on the power cable side of it? If that were the case, they'd be selling the high dollar power cables also. Why would they short themselves?

The comment about matching a 10K power cable to a 2K phono amp not being a smart thing to do.... Why don't they use their same logic and reverse that, by buying the 10K power cable first and adding the 2K phono amp?

This all reminds me of a fairly famous double blind test that occurred at Sunshine Stereo in Florida in the late 90's. Steve Zipser (sadly deceased now) was the owner and always claimed he could tell the difference between his multi thousand dollar amps vs. cheap amps. Peter Aczel and Tom Nousaine of the Audio Critic challenged him to a double blind test and he accepted. It didn't go well for Steve. Steve was quite the character and even though he believed in a lot of the snake oil, he was an asset to the audio community. The guy had a big bark, but an even bigger heart.

If you're interested in reading about that old DBT, you can find it in this pdf article of the Audio Critic from Spring of 1997.

Starting on page 6 (pdf 7), https://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/mags/The_Audio_Critic_24_r.pdf

 

[lovinthehd]

This is a great Audioholics article and frankly, I'm surprised that there are so many scam artists selling this BS.

I've been into higher end audio since the 1990's. I'll be honest, I buy "higher end" interconnects and cables all around. Do they sound any better? Absolutely not. I buy them for the quality and the fact that they look better with the rest of the higher end gear. No other reason.

With the existence of the BS, what about the expensive (hard to say "higher end" since I don't view them that way) is of better quality? Aesthetics, maybe (some of those monstrously thick ones just remind me of penis issues).

 

[Oldoiler]

Well, I would say that "higher quality" is more objective than subjective. Generally one can look at the build quality of something and see concretely that one item is better made than another item. Unfortunately, in the real world we see that this is not always true.

With the above said, you are exactly right, the more expensive may not actually be of "better quality". Regardless, what I have purchased has indeed held up up and does look better with my system overall. Does it sound better? Absolutely not.

 

[ryanosaur]

Actually, Pauls response was based on years of hands-on design and manufacture, designing audio equipment is like gourmet cooking, you have to taste it while cooking or in this case listen to your designs. But that does not apply to cables! cables are passive, not active, and although they do interact with electronic circuitry their effect should be nill, or else you're inducing some sort of anomalies that is actually changing the waveform and that's bad! So if someone actually did hear a difference that difference should be measurable because of the relatively small bandwidth of the audio spectrum. Like Gene I have worked in Electronics all my life building my first HiFi from an allied radio KNight kit in 1959, I still have some of those early stereo demo records somewhere I played them ad nausea for hours on end. The only thing I found to enhance the sound back then was adding a "Nickle" to my Garrard turntable arm to increase the weight ... yes, worked better than cables! When I was selling a lot of stereo equipment in the '80s and 90's I would mess with the golden ear audiophiles that came in my shop by challenging them to discern the difference between cables... I would go in back of the display and say ok now I've change cables, but I never did, and they would to a man swear that they could hear a difference. I would do this with everything and nobody ever caught on, except when I told them what I did, then I would never see any of them again! So I just let them live their illusion, I still hear this nonsense today from golden ears who by some act of god have been born with greater hearing ability than you, these are the same guys who can't live without ketchup. So I'm siding with Gene on this one good cable is a prerequisite but exotic expensive cabling is driven by greed arrogance and disinformation... in a word junk science

At first I was gonna be all Johnny Blaze: "Flame On!"



I appreciate your perspective!

 

[Oldoiler]

I completely agree with "audioworkshop's" post. It's hilarious that he wouldn't switch cables, yet "differences" were heard.

I always hear adjectives describing the differences in cables as, "remarkable", "astounding", "unbelieveable", "more open", "blacker blacks", "better soundstage" and on and on.

My thoughts are, if we have people in the world that hear such profound differences when it comes to a wire transmission, then those folks are in the wrong job. They need to be in positions with NASA and other high tech areas that need immediate breakthroughs now.

 

[Pogre]

If you're interested in reading about that old DBT, you can find it in this pdf article of the Audio Critic from Spring of 1997.

Starting on page 6 (pdf 7), https://www.biline.ca/audio_critic/mags/The_Audio_Critic_24_r.pdf

"Where do vacuum tubes come in?"

"Nowhere. Unless you're a tweako cultist."

 

[Oldoiler]

That's so true Pogre. I actually am using an Audio Electronics tube system by Cary. Does it sound any better, again, Absolutely not. I've never heard the "warmth" from a tube system. Maybe they are referring to harmonic distortion, which is anything but "warmth".

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, I would say that "higher quality" is more objective than subjective. Generally one can look at the build quality of something and see concretely that one item is better made than another item. Unfortunately, in the real world we see that this is not always true.

With the above said, you are exactly right, the more expensive may not actually be of "better quality". Regardless, what I have purchased has indeed held up up and does look better with my system overall. Does it sound better? Absolutely not.

I don't particularly agree as you can't just look at a cable to determine anything but aesthetics....

 

[peptec]

Your comments on loss of high frequency hearing is very pertinent in considering the validity of ANY audio reviewer's subjective statements. And not just high frequency attenuation, but hearing acuity throughout the entire human hearing frequency range. One way of presenting this information would be linking each published review to a graph of a professional/UNBIASED hearing test conducted on the reviewer. That would provide information helpful in determining the validity of subjective listening comments made in the review. But perhaps of more importance, it would allow readers to match their known hearing ability to that of the reviewer's, thus giving more confidence that the reviewer's honest (hopefully) sound impressions would more closely match what they might also hear. Granted that all other components in the system, and especially the room, would impact the final differences. But knowing the reviewer's frequency graph is perhaps the most important variable that is easy to obtain and which should be made available. I bet all those experienced and well known reviewers over age 40 would just love to have that info published for all to see. So who wants to be first?

 

[Pogre]

Your comments on loss of high frequency hearing is very pertinent in considering the validity of ANY audio reviewer's subjective statements. And not just high frequency attenuation, but hearing acuity throughout the entire human hearing frequency range. One way of presenting this information would be linking each published review to a graph of a professional/UNBIASED hearing test conducted on the reviewer. That would provide information helpful in determining the validity of subjective listening comments made in the review. But perhaps of more importance, it would allow readers to match their known hearing ability to that of the reviewer's, thus giving more confidence that the reviewer's honest (hopefully) sound impressions would more closely match what they might also hear. Granted that all other components in the system, and especially the room, would impact the final differences. But knowing the reviewer's frequency graph is perhaps the most important variable that is easy to obtain and which should be made available. I bet all those experienced and well known reviewers over age 40 would just love to have that info published for all to see. So who wants to be first?

I think there would be a lot of embarrassed reviewers out there... lol.

"So tell us more about those 'airy crystalline highs' you experienced with your hearing that can't detect anything above 10 khz..."

 

[highfigh]

I completely agree with "audioworkshop's" post. It's hilarious that he wouldn't switch cables, yet "differences" were heard.

I always hear adjectives describing the differences in cables as, "remarkable", "astounding", "unbelieveable", "more open", "blacker blacks", "better soundstage" and on and on.

My thoughts are, if we have people in the world that hear such profound differences when it comes to a wire transmission, then those folks are in the wrong job. They need to be in positions with NASA and other high tech areas that need immediate breakthroughs now.

Maybe we could have them stand in isolated wilderness, to listen for extraterrestrials. Give them a backpack with food and a cell phone so they can call if they hear anything. I wonder if they'll realize that cell phones are only good for about 6 miles.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... designing audio equipment is like gourmet cooking, you have to taste it while cooking ...

I would think this analogy would be better suited to the recording studio and mixing/mastering engineer.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

My thoughts are, if we have people in the world that hear such profound differences when it comes to a wire transmission, then those folks are in the wrong job. They need to be in positions with NASA and other high tech areas that need immediate breakthroughs now.

Not really unless NASA is interested how cables sound in their spaceships or satellites.

 

[NINaudio]

Not really unless NASA is interested how cables sound in their spaceships or satellites.

There are plenty of fields that are reading the tiniest of signals from their experiments (sometimes barely above the noise floor) and they aren't using $1000/ft 10 gauge cable. If these "audiophile" speaker cables really had improved signal transport, I can guarantee you there would be lots of interested physicists.

 

[ryanosaur]

Not really unless NASA is interested how cables sound in their spaceships or satellites.

Ha...
I do know of one speaker designer that insists Mil Spec Wire is the best for his designs and offers it as an upgrade. That would include Space Vehilcles, as well as Military Aircraft, etc.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ha...
I do know of one speaker designer that insists Mil Spec Wire is the best for his designs and offers it as an upgrade. That would include Space Vehilcles, as well as Military Aircraft, etc.

Yes, but does that MilSpec includes how the wire sounds in the audio spectrum?

 

[CajunLB]

As long as the midrange is Chocolately I’m happy.