Audioholics: please tell me if I’m crazy (for considering a subwoofer purchase)

[Henry Howards]

The SB16 is no doubt a amazing subwoofer, but keep in mind, it is 122 lbs packed in a 20" cube. That is not an easy load to handle, even for two people, especially since there isn't an easy handle or grip on its gloss black surface. But if you have friends who can help you move it, it would be a killer sub for sure.

The SB16-Ultra example I gave earlier was, I admit, rather tongue-in-cheek, and you are right to offer me a reality check! The alcove I have in my house is indeed large enough to hold the SB16, but I would be delusional to entertain serious thoughts about attempting to maneuver such a leviathan into that corner -- even with the help of a friend, much less all by myself. (I have actually tried to make it a practice to refrain from acquiring stuff that is too massive for me to move around with my own muscle power and/or the logical application of leverage...)
I just finished reading your review of the SVS PC-2000 cylinder sub. Its excellent performance and unique design are gratifying, and I am further impressed that SVS has been able to achieve such great results in a speaker that weighs far less than the typical subwoofer, without sacrificing anything in terms of clean, powerful output. So, the idea of auditioning the PC-2000 in my home is very appealing to me. Although I would be able to reposition it and listen to the way it sounds in different spots in my room, unfortunately its height and girth would mandate that it be installed only in the corner, because I have no other place to put it. I should probably post some photos (or a floor plan) of this "tiny house" so folks could get a better picture of the layout, here.
Since you have reviewed quite a few subwoofer models, would you conclude there is much discernable difference between ported and sealed designs? I guess I'm wondering if I would even be able to detect the difference with my own ears, given the high performance level that subwoofers have attained, these days. I came across an interesting quote from Brent Butterworth, in his review of the Kreisel DXD-12012 subwoofer for Sound & Vision: http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-kreisel-sound-dxd-12012-subwoofer#ZPEG4xTThDk3vUBO.97

"A friend commented that I seem a little burned out on reviewing subwoofers. Not at all. But I am a little burned out on people's expectations of subwoofers. Go onto any online forum and you'll see guys sweating the decision between two excellent subwoofers, fretting over an extra 1 or 2 Hz of measured bass extension, or an extra 1 or 2 dB of output at 20 Hz. Sometimes I wish I could just call them up and say, "Dude-either one will be great. You probably wouldn't notice an appreciable difference between them, and even if you do, it's a total crapshoot as to which one you'd prefer."

I figure I am one of those dudes, attempting to draw distinctions among statistical minutiae that I would not be able to hear... (!)

 

[shadyJ]

I don't have many published reviews of subwoofers- only 4 reviews to date. But I have measured more than that, in order to develop a working, consistent test procedure. Regarding differences between ported and sealed, the audible differences are in the low frequencies, which is a revelation that will surprise no one, of course. Ported is cleaner and more powerful in low frequencies. Given your listening preferences expressed in your first post in this thread, I think a ported sub might be worth it for you, since you want to bring out powerful deep notes in pipe organ music. The again, as Kurt mentioned earlier, the effect of room gain might boost the low end of a ported subwoofer too much for your liking. Something else to consider is just how loud do you like to listen to music? No sense in spending money on a sub whose chief advantage is higher dynamic range when you wouldn't be taking advantage of that dynamic range.

 

[KEW]

Kurt, I think you are misreading those graphs. It looks like what you are attributing to 'quickness' is simply a function of frequency response vs amplitude.

The manual for the XTZ Room Analyzer, the system that was used to generate those graphs, states: "An uneven color spectrum suggests an uneven frequency response in the room."

It looks as if you selectively quoted the sentence which, when taken out of context, supports your argument. You ignored the first sentence that defined the spectrogram!
Here is the entire paragraph:

The idea of the spectrogram is to show the decay time as a function of time and frequency. An uneven color spectrum suggests an uneven frequency response in the room. High amplitudes (warm colors) reaching far into the right of the chart shows that there are problems with long decay times.

It'll probably be a day or two before I get back to address the other concerns.
Merry Christmas (or "Happy Festivas") to all!

 

[Henry Howards]

Regarding differences between ported and sealed, the audible differences are in the low frequencies, which is a revelation that will surprise no one, of course. Ported is cleaner and more powerful in low frequencies. Given your listening preferences expressed in your first post in this thread, I think a ported sub might be worth it for you, since you want to bring out powerful deep notes in pipe organ music. The again, as Kurt mentioned earlier, the effect of room gain might boost the low end of a ported subwoofer too much for your liking. Something else to consider is just how loud do you like to listen to music? No sense in spending money on a sub whose chief advantage is higher dynamic range when you wouldn't be taking advantage of that dynamic range.

My music listening isn't all organ all the time, of course, but I'm thinking that, when I do play a recording that reaches down into the lower depths, it would be highly gratifying if my subwoofer could meet the challenge without strain. So I started poking around the Internet to learn more about organ technology, and some of what I discovered actually surprised me. As the premier organist of his era, J.S. Bach was often consulted for organ design and inspection. When a large organ was being built, he would encourage the inclusion of a 32' pedal stop, which is called for in several of his organ pieces, and produces a 16 Hz fundamental. It will take a very good subwoofer to play that sustained note well. There are actually at least two organs in the world that have a true 64' pedal [8 Hz!?] but believe me, I'm not so obsessive as to insist on a subwoofer that could manage anything so subterranean. (Can recording technology even capture a note like that? From what I understand, the human ear is not able to respond to a sound that low...)
Even though I do like to crank up Classical Music to healthy volumes, I have a hunch that I generally don't listen to dynamic levels that are as high as the average audio enthusiast would. The sound in movie theaters is often too loud for my comfort, and I have no interest in reproducing that SPL at home. This may expand my subwoofer options somewhat.
Well now, I am about to reveal something that maybe I would be wise not to divulge on a forum devoted to confirmed Bassoholics. Just today I received a completely unexpected $5000 cash Christmas gift from a relative. Suddenly I am feeling very flush. To tell you the truth, I am starting to scare myself a little fantasizing how much of that money I might be willing to spend on a subwoofer (or 2). Actually, the SVS PC-13 Ultra has caught my eye. https://www.svsound.com/products/pc13-ultra It plays deep, it's tunable, and it's relatively light (90 lbs). If need be, I could probably roll it into place and tip it upright (with the help of a buddy). So, gents, let me know if there are other subwoofers I should be considering (though the really massive models are probably out of the question for me...) Have a very merry Solstice Festival, one and all...!

32' Organ Pipe. Let's try to reproduce the sound it makes, with the help of a good subwoofer...

 

[shadyJ]

It looks as if you selectively quoted the sentence which, when taken out of context, supports your argument. You ignored the first sentence before that defined the spectrogram!
Here is the entire paragraph:


It'll probably be a day or two before I get back to address the other concerns.
Merry Christmas (or "Happy Festivas") to all!

The problem is, what does that decay mean in those graphs? Where does the subwoofer group delay end and the room begin? How much of that is actual decay and how much of it is just due to the long wave cycles of low frequencies? Its just not clear in those spectrograms, as opposed to a group delay graph, where it is clear. What would the ideal response be in those spectrograms? I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you what it would be in a group delay chart.

 

[shadyJ]

My music listening isn't all organ all the time, of course, but I'm thinking that, when I do play a recording that reaches down into the lower depths, it would be highly gratifying if my subwoofer could meet the challenge without strain. So I started poking around the Internet to learn more about organ technology, and some of what I discovered actually surprised me. As the premier organist of his era, J.S. Bach was often consulted for organ design and inspection. When a large organ was being built, he would encourage the inclusion of a 32' pedal stop, which is called for in several of his organ pieces, and produces a 16 Hz fundamental. It will take a very good subwoofer to play that sustained note well. There are actually at least two organs in the world that have a true 64' pedal [8 Hz!?] but believe me, I'm not so obsessive as to insist on a subwoofer that could manage anything so subterranean. (Can recording technology even capture a note like that? From what I understand, that's inaudible to the human ear...)
Even though I do like to crank up Classical Music to healthy volumes, I have a hunch that I generally don't listen to dynamic levels that are as high as the average audio enthusiast. The sound in movie theaters is often too loud for my comfort, and I have no interest in reproducing that SPL at home. This may expand my subwoofer options somewhat.
Well now, I am about to reveal something that maybe I would be wise not to divulge on a forum devoted to Bassoholics. Just today I received a completely unexpected $5000 cash Christmas gift from a relative. Suddenly I am feeling very flush. To tell you the truth, I am starting to scare myself a little fantasizing how much of that money I might be willing to spend on a subwoofer (or 2). Actually, the SVS PC-13 Ultra has caught my eye. https://www.svsound.com/products/pc13-ultra It plays deep, it's tunable, and it's relatively light (90 lbs). If need be, I could probably roll it into place and tip it upright (with the help of a buddy). So, gents, let me know if there are other subwoofers I should be considering (though the really massive models are probably out of the question for me...) Have a very merry Solstice Festival, one and all...!

32' Organ Pipe. Let's try to reproduce the sound it makes, with a subwoofer...

The PC13-Ultra should certainly give you very powerful deep bass, you can't go wring with it, since it is relatively light. The PC12-Plus looks like a great alternative as well, and it is hard to imagine that you would take full advantage of the PC13-Ultra's low end, so maybe the PC12-Plus would be a more sensible choice. It's a bit lighter than the PC13, at 75 lbs vs 90 lbs, but that extra 15 lbs can make a big difference in that weight range. I do think that SVS's cylinder subs are a better bargain then their box subs, not that their box subs are bad. The cylinders may not be as pretty, but they are far more physically manageable and they have the same performance. The tunability would be a big advantage for your setup as well. Something else you might think about is using subwoofers as speaker stands, if you have your bookshelf speakers on stands. Get subs of a height that, if you place your speaker on top, the tweeter would be at ear level.

 

[Henry Howards]

The PC13-Ultra should certainly give you very powerful deep bass, you can't go wrong with it, since it is relatively light. The PC12-Plus looks like a great alternative as well, and it is hard to imagine that you would take full advantage of the PC13-Ultra's low end, so maybe the PC12-Plus would be a more sensible choice. It's a bit lighter than the PC13, at 75 lbs vs 90 lbs, but that extra 15 lbs can make a big difference in that weight range. The tunability would be a big advantage for your setup as well.

Thanks for pointing out the PC12 to me. Somehow I managed to completely overlook that model in the SVS series of cylinder subs. The frequency response curves for the PC13-Ultra and the PC12-Plus are actually very similar. Of course the PC13-Ultra has a more powerful amp and can achieve higher SPL before distorting, but as you have suggested, it isn't likely that my listening habits would necessitate that additional power. And you are absolutely right: 75 lbs will be significantly easier to manage, compared to the 90 lbs of the PC13-Ultra.

Something else you might think about is using subwoofers as speaker stands, if you have your bookshelf speakers on stands. Get subs of a height that, if you place your speaker on top, the tweeter would be at ear level.

You are brilliant!!! I just measured the height of my front speakers on their stands, and the base of each speaker is 38.75" above the floor. The height of the PC12-Plus is 40.3" which is fairly close. (The lowest-priced PC-2000 model in the SVS cylinder series is 34" tall, which would work equally well for my purposes.) I could buy a pair of these cylinder subs at a discount from SVS, and be all set. I think you have just solved the subwoofer puzzle for me. Thanks for the gift of your keen observation -- I am truly grateful. Next I am going to start reading through the reviews of these subs (with rapt interest and enthusiasm, I might add). I've got to admit this has made me pretty excited...

 

[shadyJ]

Um, I'm not sure the cylinder subs would be great for that task. To be honest, I was thinking of box subs when I said that. You don't want to set anything on top of the Plus or Ultra cylinders because you don't want to block the ports. The PC2000 might have problems with that kind of use, because it has a very light enclosure, which is fine for the sub itself, but a down-firing driver in a light enclosure with rubber feet may not make for an inert enough top surface to place a bookshelf speaker. Then again your bookshelf speaker models look to be so heavy that it might not matter, however, that would make the sub/speaker stack a bit top heavy. I guess you could try it out and return the sub if it doesn't work.

 

[Henry Howards]

Um, I'm not sure the cylinder subs would be great for that task. To be honest, I was thinking of box subs when I said that. You don't want to set anything on top of the Plus or Ultra cylinders because you don't want to block the ports. The PC2000 might have problems with that kind of use, because it has a very light enclosure, which is fine for the sub itself, but a down-firing driver in a light enclosure with rubber feet may not make for an inert enough top surface to place a bookshelf speaker. Then again your bookshelf speaker models look to be so heavy that it might not matter, however, that would make the sub/speaker stack a bit top heavy. I guess you could try it out and return the sub if it doesn't work.

You're right about the ports on the PC12-Plus. My enthusiasm got the better of me, and I made the mistaken initial assumption that the ports were recessed beneath a sturdy, solid cover, but now I realize that it is only a grille over the ports. However, I am still feeling confident about the ability of the PC-2000 to sustain my speakers when they are placed on top. From what I have read, the cylinder of the enclosure is constructed from the same sonotube material that is used for pouring concrete columns, and I believe the rubber feet at the base of the cylinder are fairly robust. And to be honest, my speakers are already top-heavy on their stands (I sometimes wonder what might happen if we were to experience a strong California tremor, here...) However, I realize it would be wise to consult with SVS beforehand, to verify that the 55-lb weight of my loudspeakers would not overtax the balance and structural integrity of the subwoofer.

So, I may have to "go back to the drawing board" in my search for a subwoofer! I welcome suggestions from forum members for subwoofer models that might fulfill my needs. I seem to be in the market, now, for 2 high-quality subs that can each support the weight of a 55-lb speaker. It would be necessary for these subs to be no more than 16" wide, with a maximum height of about 36" (and it would also be helpful if they didn't weigh a ton). Are there any models out there that might fulfill these requirements...? Thanks again for your help!

 

[shadyJ]

From what I have read, the tube of the enclosure is constructed from the same material that is used for pouring concrete columns, and I believe the rubber feet at the base of the cylinder are fairly robust. However, I realize it would be wise to consult with SVS beforehand, to verify that the 55 lb weight of my loudspeakers would not overtax the structural integrity of the subwoofer.

It isn't the structural integrity that is the problem. The sonotubes used by SVS are very strong and can hold anything with no problem. The problem is they are not heavy, so it is not unthinkable that the subwoofer would have some vertical vibration. That could be a real problem for setting speakers on top of, especially if you intend to play low frequencies at loud levels. Maybe if the speakers are heavy enough and have no feet, and you can place some rubber grip liner under the speakers, would it work. Or, if you don't mind messing up the top of the sub, some blu-tac. Anyway, you can order a PC2000 and see for yourself whether it is feasible. I thought about trying that when I had the PC2000, but I didn't want to mess up the top of the sub since it wasn't mine, and also I thought it would have made the stack too top heavy (one bump from the dog and it would have went down). As for other speakers which can fill the role of a speaker stand, one that fits that height at 85" is the Hsu VTF3 mk5, and two of those would give you way more output than you would ever use. At 85 lbs they are a bit heavy, but you will need some weight to make for an inert place for the speakers. Another good choice at 28" high might be the Rythmik L22. It is 98 lbs, so pretty heavy, and you can get two for $1640. The Hsu would be a bit more expensive since you likely have to pay sales tax on it. Whatever you decide on, use a mat or something to protect the top surface of the subwoofer from scratches.

 

[shadyJ]

No plans that I know of to review the L22.

As for comparison against the PC2000, the PC2000 is sure to have more powerful deep bass, while the L22 likely has more powerful bass above 40 Hz. It does not have the low bass efficiency of the PC2000. While the L22 has two drivers vs the PC2000 one driver, the PC2000 has a really good bass driver that I would guess is much more capable one on one vs the Rythmik driver. I think you would be quite happy with the L22. By placing the Paradigm speakers on the L22s, you are effectively transforming them into a truly full-range tower speaker.

 

[shadyJ]

If you don't feel like handling the weight of the L22, you could just get two L12s and stack them. That is all the L22 is anyway, two L12s in one cabinet. It's a bit more expensive, but it would be a lot easier to handle. You do get a discount from buying duals. By that same token, one interesting thing you can do, although it is a bit above your stated budget, is get two pair of SVS SB2000s and stack them, 2 per stack. That gets you to a 30" height and would be a bit more powerful than the L12 stack/ L22. You could also stick with ported by getting VTF2s and using desktop speaker stands on top of them, thereby getting the height to your ears. Here are some adjustable desktop speaker stands that can hold a heavy speaker and be raised to 8", and stacking that on a VTF2 would give you about a 30" height. That gives you the option of a bit more deep bass than the sealed subs, but still plenty of mid bass.

 

[Henry Howards]

If you don't feel like handling the weight of the L22, you could just get two L12s and stack them. That is all the L22 is anyway, two L12s in one cabinet. It's a bit more expensive, but it would be a lot easier to handle. You do get a discount from buying duals. By that same token, one interesting thing you can do, although it is a bit above your stated budget, is get two pair of SVS SB2000s and stack them, 2 per stack. That gets you to a 30" height and would be a bit more powerful than the L12 stack/ L22. You could also stick with ported by getting VTF2s and using desktop speaker stands on top of them, thereby getting the height to your ears. Here are some adjustable desktop speaker stands that can hold a heavy speaker and be raised to 8", and stacking that on a VTF2 would give you about a 30" height. That gives you the option of a bit more deep bass than the sealed subs, but still plenty of mid bass.

Much to consider! I was just reading the excellent Audioholics review of the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 and thinking that model might very well hit the "sweet spot" for me: a sub that performs admirably in every important aspect yet is still reasonably priced. I definitely love getting "bang for my buck" and the VTF-2 mk5 is essentially the textbook definition of that concept. Well, I'd better get to bed. By the way, don't you sleep? I think it's amazing how available you are to answer my questions. Thanks again.

 

[lovinthehd]

It's true that I now have more to spend than before, and I can afford to splurge if I want, but my natural frugality may prevail in the final analysis. Many thanks for all your help -- it is very valuable to me.

How do you feel about DIY/AIY? More bang for your $1000 than commercial subs can provide...

ps Forgive me if brought up earlier in the thread....

 

[Henry Howards]

How do you feel about DIY/AIY? More bang for your $1000 than commercial subs can provide...

I think your suggestion is a GREAT idea, and I figure a person who is handy could definitely save a lot by creating their own subwoofer, with top-quality results as a reward for their efforts. Unfortunately, I am not one of those people who is very skilled at building things with my own hands (I'm pathetically slow & clumsy with tools, and I tend to make dumb mistakes all through the construction process). I also don't have access to a workshop, and my modest 340 sqft. home lacks space for a project like that. (As a matter of fact, when I began on the Audioholics forum by wondering "Am I crazy to buy a subwoofer?" it was partly to investigate the sanity of bringing giant speaker(s) into a very small living space like mine.) I may still be crazy, but with the encouragement of the sterling Bassoholics on this site I am highly likely to become the proud owner of a fine pair of (factory assembled) subwoofers, some day soon. On the other hand, my younger brother is not only a masterful Do-It-Yourself guy (he does beautiful work) he also has the shop to do it. However, I live in California and my brother lives in Iowa, and he is in the middle of a home renovation project now. (I can't explain it, but I seem to have avoided inheriting most of the expert craftsman genes in my family...) Thanks for the tip, though -- I was actually looking online recently at a DIY cylinder-sub project that was very ingenious. That's probably the approach I would take if I were building my own subwoofer. Those Sonotube forms have amazing structural integrity for their weight and are just about indestructible. Moreover, the tube allows you to start off your subwoofer project with a speaker enclosure that is almost ready-made (no need to assemble a box out of flat panels) and the end result is a down-firing sub that performs really well, doesn't weigh a ton, and saves space in your room. I'm starting to wish I could do this, because I could design the sub to be exactly what I need. Oh, well...

 

[lovinthehd]

I think your suggestion is a GREAT idea, and I figure a person who is handy could definitely save a lot by creating their own subwoofer, with top-quality results as a reward for their efforts. Unfortunately, I am not one of those people who is very skilled at building things with my own hands (I'm pathetically slow & clumsy with tools, and I tend to make dumb mistakes all through the construction process). I also don't have access to a workshop, and my modest 340 sqft. home lacks space for a project like that. (As a matter of fact, when I began on the Audioholics forum by wondering "Am I crazy to buy a subwoofer?" it was partly to investigate the sanity of bringing giant speaker(s) into a very small living space like mine.) I may still be crazy, but with the encouragement of the sterling Bassoholics on this site I am highly likely to become the proud owner of a fine pair of (factory assembled) subwoofers, some day soon. On the other hand, my younger brother is not only a masterful Do-It-Yourself guy (he does beautiful work) he also has the shop to do it. However, I live in California and my brother lives in Iowa, and he is in the middle of a home renovation project now. (I can't explain it, but I seem to have avoided inheriting most of the expert craftsman genes in my family...) Thanks for the tip, though -- I was actually looking online recently at a DIY cylinder-sub project that was very ingenious. That's probably the approach I would take if I were building my own subwoofer. Those Sonotube forms have amazing structural integrity for their weight and are just about indestructible. Moreover, the tube allows you to start off your subwoofer project with a speaker enclosure that is almost ready-made (no need to assemble a box out of flat panels) and the end result is a down-firing sub that performs really well, doesn't weigh a ton, and saves space in your room. I'm starting to wish I could do this, because I could design the sub to be exactly what I need. Oh, well...

340 sq ft home is hard for me to fathom, need my space....my living room is larger than that! I used to live in the SF area and if I'd stayed I'd probably end up only being able to afford 340 sq ft, tho

You can do a sub with minimal tools with AIY approach with flatpacks that have been cut for you, all you need to do is glue 'em together. Drill/cut a hole for a speaker terminal is about as complex as the tool thing would go with those and everyone should have an electric drill IMO. The bigger issue is finishing, but applying paint/duratex isn't that hard, just a bit messy perhaps. Look at some of the driver/flatpack kits at parts-express or flatpacks alone at diysoundgroup.com (same flatpacks btw).

 

[Henry Howards]

340 sq ft home is hard for me to fathom, need my space....my living room is larger than that! I used to live in the SF area and if I'd stayed I'd probably end up only being able to afford 340 sq ft, tho
You can do a sub with minimal tools with AIY approach with flatpacks that have been cut for you, all you need to do is glue 'em together. Drill/cut a hole for a speaker terminal is about as complex as the tool thing would go with those and everyone should have an electric drill IMO. The bigger issue is finishing, but applying paint/duratex isn't that hard, just a bit messy perhaps. Look at some of the driver/flatpack kits at parts-express or flatpacks alone at diysoundgroup.com (same flatpacks btw).

I know what you're saying about real estate in the San Francisco Bay area -- prices are astronomical. But I love this little place. It's perfect for my needs, and you would have to offer me a really sweet deal to trade it in for something else. I have total privacy in and around my cottage, so I can crank up my audio equipment as loud as I want at any time, day or night, and there will be no problems disturbing neighbors.

The flatpack subwoofer kits are great, but to tell you the truth, if I were to assemble my own sub I would ONLY be interested in building a cylinder-sub, because that particular design fulfills my needs better than any other. Failing that, I am content to buy a commercially available model built by a company that is known for their quality, who also offers a good long-term warranty on their product. Thanks for the link!

 

[lovinthehd]

I know what you're saying about real estate in the San Francisco Bay area -- prices are astronomical. But I love this little place. It's perfect for my needs, and you would have to offer me a really sweet deal to trade it in for something else. I have total privacy in and around my cottage, so I can crank up my audio equipment as loud as I want at any time, day or night, and there will be no problems disturbing neighbors.

The flatpack subwoofer kits are great, but to tell you the truth, if I were to assemble my own sub I would ONLY be interested in building a cylinder-sub, because that particular design fulfills my needs better than any other. Failing that, I am content to buy a commercially available model built by a company that is known for their quality, who also offers a good long-term warranty on their product. Thanks for the link!

Had to throw the diy/aiy thing out there, can work well if it works for you!

My timing for buying into SF real estate was always a bit off plus had great rental deals for my time there (from '71 to '13 with a few years in LA area thrown in there off and on). Fortunately much of the time I spent in one place in SF (28 years!) my neighbors were cool with loud audio even though houses were 1 inch apart or so and walls on the thin side. Good for them at that time I hadn't discovered subs....

I think I remember more about your place now that you mention it, sounds like you scored! One thing I lacked in my last place in the bay area was no garage/workshop (but a nice house down near four corners (92&35) on the edge of Woodside), now I have two garages and converted one into a workshop, for woodworking and my bikes. Have built four subs now from my own cuts and won't be considering commercial subs for the forseeable future (plus still have six of those still hanging around anyways).

Happy holidaze!

 

[Henry Howards]

Have built four subs now from my own cuts and won't be considering commercial subs for the forseeable future (plus still have six of those still hanging around anyways).

I realize you have no need to assemble any more subs right now, but just for fun, try a Google search for "DIY sonosub" or "DIY sonotube subwoofer", or "DIY cylinder subwoofer" to see the tube designs that are being hand-built these days. I think they are very cool! SVS has been making cylinder subwoofers for years and they have really good performance. http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-pc2000-subwoofer

 

[lovinthehd]

I realize you have no need to assemble any more subs right now, but just for fun, try a Google search for "DIY sonosub" (or cylinder subwoofer) to see the tube designs that are being built these days.

No need, quite familiar with them....may even build one some day. Good way to go for smaller footprints in some cases. This guy makes some of the finest cylindrical subs I know of http://bossobass.com/Bossobass.com/Home.html