Audio Research amps

m. zillch

m. zillch

Enthusiast
Dr. Floyd Toole, a leading audio scientist and researcher, writes in part 3 of his book regarding their heat:

"Solid-state amplifiers typically have output impedances in the range 0.01 to 0.04 ohms (damping factors from 800 to 200). Tube amplifiers typically range from 0.7 to 3.3 ohms (damping factors from 11 to 2.4), and occasionally even more. These are large losses, and when placed in series with the frequency-dependent impedances of loudspeakers, they cause audible changes in spectrum; the loudspeakers have essentially been “revoiced” by the tube power amplifier. See Figures 16.1 and 16.2, pp. 434 and 436. Stereophile magazine measurements of power amplifiers include frequency responses when driving a simulated loudspeaker load. The deviations are sometimes substantial. Somehow this is not discussed in the subjective reviews, when what they are hearing is through loudspeakers that have been modified in ways they do not know. They are not the products the manufacturers designed.

As a general statement, it is advisable to leave tube/valve amplifiers to those who believe that their sound is as satisfyingly warm as the air above them.
"
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I'm very cautious. C'mon, Doc, I figured that you would consider 'coffee warmer' as about the highest and best use of a tube amp!
Don't think I would go that far, but close. It is not that tube amps are bad. People my age used them with good results for years. However there are now better options, and our speaker infrastructure is not conducive to getting the best from tube amps. Altogether that makes them a less than ideal option.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Don't think I would go that far, but close. It is not that tube amps are bad. People my age used them with good results for years. However there are now better options, and our speaker infrastructure is not conducive to getting the best from tube amps. Altogether that makes them a less than ideal option.
While I agree with a lot of what you say there are plenty of great examples today of superb tube based systems. Not to mention the 'hobby factor' involved with 'valves', some enthusiasts live to 'roll tubes'. It's not all Black & White, shades of gray abound ........
 
m. zillch

m. zillch

Enthusiast
In my view the tube industry in the 1960s/70s saw the writing on the wall: Solid state designs were becoming affordable, more durable, immune to microphonics, pretty much never needed re-biasing, were smaller, more efficient, generated less heat, and had great sound quality with typically, as a class, lower noise/distortion and a flatter frequency response into an actual speaker load. . so they realized their days were numbered and their only shot at staying in business was to move the goal posts and start selling instead based on mysticism, snobbery, elitism, and marketing lies. Examples upon request.

The most prolific amp reviewer who has ever lived, and who tested, measured , and listened to first tubes (because they were all that existed when he started his very long career) and then later solid state designs, wrote back in the late 1990s:

"Have you ever wondered why vacuum tubes are still so much in demand for high-fidelity components? I have, but so far I have not been able to come up with a convincing answer."

Source: "Remember Vacuum Tubes?", Stereo Review magazine (later renamed Sound and Vision) Feb. 1997, p.24

There are all sorts of reasons to explore tubes*—nostalgia, looks, room heater, etc.— but it annoys me that people are being lied to by marketers and I know this from firsthand personal experience because I was one myself, so I know exactly what the tube marketers (and my tube companies' reps) push.

*Just like there are all sorts of reasons to ride bicycles even though we now have cars, but a line has been crossed if a bike maker lies and tells consumers, say: "Bikes have better acceleration than cars to those of us who are discerning".
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
Well put Zillch ! Regardless, to each his own and if tubes keep ones toes a tappin' then so be it !
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
I think we gave the OP the unvarnished truth. It's up to him now.
 
D

dolynick

Full Audioholic
This hobby is ultimately about subjective enjoyment. If the OP enjoys the tube sound over other options that clearly measure objectively better, that's still a valid choice. Measurements can't really account for what goes on between the little hairs in our ears and how our brains analyze and interpret the data after it leaves the sound system. There might be trends, but we're clearly not all the same in the way we perceive and enjoy. I see no point in running down his choice when, in the end, he's the one who has to live with and be happy with his system.

Unfortunately, he's not likely to get an actual answer to his specific questions here though. I'd agree that his question about soundstaging, etc is going to go back much more to his speakers and room than the particular amp in use.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
This hobby is ultimately about subjective enjoyment. If the OP enjoys the tube sound over other options that clearly measure objectively better, that's still a valid choice. Measurements can't really account for what goes on between the little hairs in our ears and how our brains analyze and interpret the data after it leaves the sound system. There might be trends, but we're clearly not all the same in the way we perceive and enjoy. I see no point in running down his choice when, in the end, he's the one who has to live with and be happy with his system.

Unfortunately, he's not likely to get an actual answer to his specific questions here though. I'd agree that his question about soundstaging, etc is going to go back much more to his speakers and room than the particular amp in use though.
You have that right. The only possible answer to his question is entirely subjective and also dependent degree to an unpublished specification. This is the whole issue of the a universal problem with tube amps and their output transformers. As I said before made more acute by the trend to lower speaker impedances and the pretty much general lack of impedance compensation in speaker crossovers. In the tube era, Raymond Cooke generally included impedance compensation in his crossover designs.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I think we gave the OP the unvarnished truth. It's up to him now.
Again I agree, he would be better served to pose his question on forums that more opening embrace tube gear. As for ARC, I admit to being a fan of William Zane Johnson, his products have been in my main rig for 40 years, currently a LS-28SE resides as my line stage of choice.
 
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