Anybody else upset?

[Takeereasy]

The best part about all the offers to help is that it shows you that you have a ton of friends out there.

-as for the looters and people potshoting the doctors and helicopters, send in the special forces. It's one thing to steal the basics of life, but, that 60" flatscreen is not an essential. Anyone that shoots at a person saving lives should be punished in a way that I don't feel comfortable saying.

 

[majorloser]

Ask majorloser that question, he runs a city water plant.
EDIT:: Thats also where he can view all the pretty lab chicks

As I recall, there was a company out of Australia that donated many of the mini reverse osmosis water treatment units to areas in India.

 

[gellor]

I have a friend out there right now helping fly people to safety, and he's in a civilian helicopter. (Its used as an instruction helicopter, so at most holds 2-3 people besides the pilot.)

He's already been shot at (they missed) and had people constantly cussing him out because they claim he's only taking skinny people. (helicopters have weight limits, not personnel limits...if you exceed the weight limit, he can't fly)

As for foreign aid:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/02/katrina.world/index.html

The highlights are:
-Sympathy from Queen Elizabeth and promises of aid if needed/requested
-Prayers from the vatican
-$10Million to the Red Cross from Australia as well as a team of emergency management specialists.
-$200k cash and about $300k in supplies from Japan to the Red Cross
-Offers of aid from the EU
-60Million barrels of "product" made available by the international energy agency
-NATO is waiting for requests of what is needed
-Germany offered aid or money but was denied
-French president sent a letter to "Dear George" *snork*
-$25,000 from Sri Lanka to Red Cross (despite trying to recover from its own disaster)

 

[Nomo]

I have a friend out there right now helping fly people to safety, and he's in a civilian helicopter. (Its used as an instruction helicopter, so at most holds 2-3 people besides the pilot.)

He's already been shot at (they missed) and had people constantly cussing him out because they claim he's only taking skinny people. (helicopters have weight limits, not personnel limits...if you exceed the weight limit, he can't fly)

As for foreign aid:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/02/katrina.world/index.html

The highlights are:
-Sympathy from Queen Elizabeth and promises of aid if needed/requested
-Prayers from the vatican
-$10Million to the Red Cross from Australia as well as a team of emergency management specialists.
-$200k cash and about $300k in supplies from Japan to the Red Cross
-Offers of aid from the EU
-60Million barrels of "product" made available by the international energy agency
-NATO is waiting for requests of what is needed
-Germany offered aid or money but was denied
-French president sent a letter to "Dear George" *snork*
-$25,000 from Sri Lanka to Red Cross (despite trying to recover from its own disaster)

No offense to your friend in any way. He's doing more than any of us, myself included, to help out down there beside ***** about the situation. But..
I find it embarracing that the greatest military in the world is sending what amounts to a civilian sportscar to pick up a bus load of people. Where are all the big helecopters? Seriously. Are the ALL in Iraq? Yeah I know, some are there. Obviously, not nearly enough.

And yes, I retract and apologize for the second part of my rant at the beginning of this thread. It does make me feel good as an American that we do have friends out there when we truly need them.

 

[Bryguy]

O.K., as of today Italy's air force is sending two loaded C-130 transports for help (large four prop cargo plane) and civil defense teams if needed. According to a news report sent to me today the U.S. still will not directly ask other nations for help but will except anything and everything. So far Idiot Busch stated this morning (or yesterday morning) we do not need help from the other nations. As of now the European Union (including yours Buckle), France (holy sh!t), Germany, Italy, Canada (including aircraft, small boats, and remote diving equipment and helicopters), and even Vanezuela.

Bryguy

 

[droeses58]

In times of crisis, help always seems to be too slow. After hurricane Andrew, the people who lived in Homestead, FL said the same thing because trucks couldn't make it down to them. Roads were impassable. There was major looting and gun play in South Florida too. When primal needs are no longer met, mankind gets mean. This is the same situation for southern Mississippi.

But New Orleans and the flooded areas are a logistics nightmare. When helicopters are the only means to get to some of these areas, rapid response is near impossible. Where do you get fuel? Where do you land? How may people can you evacuate per trip? Boats may not be the answer either. And lets not forget that all of these assets have to come from somewhere else since the local stuff more than likely was damaged.

Hats off to the people of Houston!!!!! They are making a major contribution to the situation.

Let's not forget, local and state governments are the first responders to any emergency. The federal government is second. When you add in the response time for Department of Defense assets to domestic issues, it can seem like a lifetime.

I totally agree, how many of the heros on this board would go and help when there is snipers shooting at cops, national guardsman and even doctors who are trying to help.

It's so easy to blame the government isn't it? How much advanced warning did these people have to evacuate New Orleans? Plenty. Did they? No. Not all could I agree, but I think the vast majority of them thought they could ride it out, well that didn't work oh so well did it?

Now who's going to take care of us?
This is how many people unfortunatly see things.

Instead of taking care of themselves they would rather suckle on the government teet! [and taxpayers]

 

[gellor]

Radio

Just to add to an earlier post of mine on here...Houston radio station 94.7 just announced how much they've raised so far for hurricaine victims...after 3-4 days of taking donations, they're almost up to $500,000...and not stopping anytime soon.

 

[Pyrrho]

... The hurricane victims knew many days ahead of time and were given a mandatory evacuation order. What good is an early warning system if people don't listen? The tragedy of the hurricane is that most of the deaths could have easily been avoided if people would have simply heeded the warnings.

...
It's so easy to blame the government isn't it? How much advanced warning did these people have to evacuate New Orleans? Plenty. Did they? No. Not all could I agree, but I think the vast majority of them thought they could ride it out, well that didn't work oh so well did it?

Now who's going to take care of us?
This is how many people unfortunatly see things.

Instead of taking care of themselves they would rather suckle on the government teet! [and taxpayers]

When the people were told to leave New Orleans, no one did anything to get poor people out. When one is warned of a natural disaster, the warning, by itself, can be useless, if the people who are warned do not have enough money to leave or enough money to stay in a hotel somewhere else for however long the disaster lasts. You might as well tell them they need to fly to the moon for safety.

I am not the first person to notice this. See:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.fema.brown/index.html

But, hey, the Republicans who are running this country could all be morons instead of intentionally getting people killed.



And you might want to take a look at what has already been said:

I'm wondering the same thing. If we can setup water purification facilities that quickly in Iraq and after the Tsunami disaster in Southeast Asia, how come we still don't have water purification facilities set up in New Orleans, almost a WEEK after the storm passed?

Am I missing something here?

And the news media, why are we blaming the victims of this storm? If the federal government could have sent in help quickly, none of this looting would have occured.

Place yourself in their shoes, what would you have done in their place, when you have gone on days without food, water, clean clothes, breathing in hot, putrid, stifling air, deadly heat? Would any of us acted differently?

Where are all those big military transport helicopters that can transport 15-20 people? All I've seen up to date are small chopters that can carry at most 4-5 people.

Where are those small transport ships that can safely navigate through shallow waters?

Where are those military ground transports? Amphibious transports that can go through shallow water (solves the bus problem)?


Where are all those national resources? Most of them in Iraq I presume.

Well whats the rush. Bush is high and dry.

 

[Matt34]

Trust me, the water purification plants were not up and running as quickly as you might think in Iraq.


As for the military equipment, yes most of it's in Iraq. That is, in fact, where a war is being fought.


Chinooks(the big helicopters) are too cumbersome for this type of rescue operation and the blackhawks(which are currently being used) can carry roughly 8 persons.

The National guard are using the FMTV (2.5tons) as transport vehicles which can navigate a couple feet of water. The only truly amphibious transports are LAVs that the marines have and some FOXs(varying configurations) the army uses which are both armored troop transports and neither would be idea to transport the sick and injured..ie very tight space and no A/C.

 

[shokhead]

Trust me, the water purification plants were not up and running as quickly as you might think in Iraq.


As for the military equipment, yes most of it's in Iraq. That is, in fact, where a war is being fought.


Chinooks(the big helicopters) are too cumbersome for this type of rescue operation and the blackhawks(which are currently being used) can carry roughly 8 persons.

The National guard are using the FMTV (2.5tons) as transport vehicles which can navigate a couple feet of water. The only truly amphibious transports are LAVs that the marines have and some FOXs(varying configurations) the army uses which are both armored troop transports and neither would be idea to transport the sick and injured..ie very tight space and no A/C.

And none of those helicopters can drop supplies,doctors,something?

 

[Matt34]

And none of those helicopters can drop supplies,doctors,something?

I've seen on many of the news stations of helicopters dropping supplies. After the reports I've read and seen today they seem to have had a big influx of support operations and equipment.

Seems the helicopters have rescued some 30,000 people so far.

 

[shokhead]

I've seen on many of the news stations of helicopters dropping supplies. After the reports I've read and seen today they seem to have had a big influx of support operations and equipment.

Seems the helicopters have rescued some 30,000 people so far.

You didnt see it last WEEK.

 

[Tomorrow]

I told alandamp in a pm that I wouldn't post again on this thread, but I have to retract my promise. There is some bs passing through here and I can't keep quiet.

A couple of you folks are out there whining and *****ing about what the government should have done or should do, what others should have done by way of preparation or rescue, or whatever the hell you're criticizing....what have YOU done to help the situation? It's easy as hell to criticize from the outside, and especially after the fact.

Okay, now that you've had your say on what's wrong, how about getting your butts or wallets out there and actually go DO something to help those in need or to make the situation 'right' by your standards? Or use your wisdom to prevent further tragedies like this. But spare us the complaining if you're unwilling to contribute energy or material to the cure.

It'll help you in the long run too, as we're all just a misfortunate event away from that kind of hell happening in our neck of the woods. Gellor's buddy has it right!

End of rant. Back to my corner.

 

[Matt34]

You didnt see it last WEEK.

I know some you think everyone should have been beamed aboard the military's secret squirrel spaceship where they could sing Kum-bi-yah and no one would be suffering....after all, it was only a Cat 4 hurricane that hit a city that is 12ft below sea level.

As for your last statement in regards to the helicopter support last week...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=active&q=hurricane+katrina+helicopter+rescues+31+aug

One Air-force helicopter had 221 sucessful rescues the first day.

Just because the mainstream media doesn't state that the "Big helicopters" aren't there doesn't mean it's not happening.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=active&q=Chinook+rescues+katrina

Ok, I'm done and will agree to disagree with any further statements made pertaining to the speed of this operation.

 

[shokhead]

I know some you think everyone should have been beamed aboard the military's secret squirrel spaceship where they could sing Kum-bi-yah and no one would be suffering....after all, it was only a Cat 4 hurricane that hit a city that is 12ft below sea level.

As for your last statement in regards to the helicopter support last week...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=active&q=hurricane+katrina+helicopter+rescues+31+aug

One Air-force helicopter had 221 sucessful rescues the first day.

Just because the mainstream media doesn't state that the "Big helicopters" aren't there doesn't mean it's not happening.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=active&q=Chinook+rescues+katrina

Ok, I'm done and will agree to disagree with any further statements made pertaining to the speed of this operation.

With all the pre-warning they had and everybody knowing what could happen,with all of that,i think the cities, states and gov all could have been abit more on the ball and hope something is learned. 221 resues is nice. How many needed/need help?

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

And none of those helicopters can drop supplies,doctors,something?

1. Very few civilian doctors know how to "drop" out of helicopters. If they do, they are probably ex-Military doctors, and were re-inducted into the ARMY earlier this year to serve in Iraq.

2. Even if you do drop a doctor off, whats he gonna do? take your BP? Without a well-stocked hospital you'll have as-good chances with a witchdoctor.

3. People are suffering from dehydration more than anything else. What they need are qualified helicopter-people-harnessing persons who are skilled at getting people into the 'choppers with long ropes (not easy).

 

[shokhead]

1. Very few civilian doctors know how to "drop" out of helicopters. If they do, they are probably ex-Military doctors, and were re-inducted into the ARMY earlier this year to serve in Iraq.

2. Even if you do drop a doctor off, whats he gonna do? take your BP? Without a well-stocked hospital you'll have as-good chances with a witchdoctor.

3. People are suffering from dehydration more than anything else. What they need are qualified helicopter-people-harnessing persons who are skilled at getting people into the 'choppers with long ropes (not easy).

I wonder how all those doc's without a hospital on there back did it during WW1,WW2,Kor,VN and all the others?

8-10 at a time in a few chhoppers will take a few years.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

I wonder how all those doc's without a hospital on there back did it during WW1,WW2,Kor,VN and all the others?

Uh.... mobile Hospitals? (M.A.S.H., more than just a good film!)

And the majority of "Battlefield Doctors" aren't really doctors, they're what most people would call EMTs and Paramedics, again they can't really do any extensive treatment beyond Emergency Medicine (set broken bones, stop bleeding, prep people for transport, etc etc etc).

Survivors in NO, and other disaster areas, typically suffer from dehydration, malnutrition, burns, and heatstroke. The 12' deep corpse & waste filled waters the people can't escape are also complicating things with a number of diseases you won't find in a "dry" area. Not only the survivors, but many of the rescuers will need treatment from these. These are the injuries that will require lengthy hospital stays, I.V. treatments, decontamination, rehydration, etc etc etc.... Many of these people are still going to die even after they are "rescued" because the treatment facilities they need aren't available for everyone.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

My question is why rebuild? If my city, the most beautiful in the world IMO, was flattened, which it very well could be someday as i live on an island, why would i stay? Why waste billions on rebuilding New Orleans? Not to sound harsh but why?? Move somewhere else.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I agree. Of course we have to help all those affected by Katrina, but rebuilding would only compound the original error of siting a city there in the first place, and would put future residents at risk of the same type of catastrophe. Unless they intend to take some engineering lessons from the residents of Holland, they should cut their losses and simply abandon New Orleans.