Adcom vs Emotiva

[PENG]

I don't know what the XLS 1000's gain is but I doubt it will be too high if it needs 1.4V to get rated output. So even with the gain knobs set to max there shouldn't be noise issue, but after I read the manual I can see why it could be an issue. The XLS 1000's S/N ratio is rated only 97 dB A weighted, that's 6 dB less than the XLS 1500's. If I need a pro amp I would bypass the 1000 and go straight to the 1500. for the much better S/N of 103 dB.

 

[jinjuku]

I hate to break it to you Peng but the 1500 is what was recommended.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't know what the XLS 1000's gain is but I doubt it will be too high if it needs 1.4V to get rated output. So even with the gain knobs set to max there shouldn't be noise issue, but after I read the manual I can see why it could be an issue. The XLS 1000's S/N ratio is rated only 97 dB A weighted, that's 6 dB less than the XLS 1500's. If I need a pro amp I would bypass the 1000 and go straight to the 1500. for the much better S/N of 103 dB.

I've posted this back when I had the XLS2500, but there was no apparent noise different between gain of 0% vs 100%.

I can't comment on the XLS1000, but somehow I doubt there would be a noise different either. I think 97dBA is still pretty good. But the XLS1500 for only $21 more is definitely a better buy.

 

[ski2xblack]

I've posted this back when I had the XLS2500, but there was no apparent noise different between gain of 0% vs 100%.

I can't comment on the XLS1000, but somehow I doubt there would be a noise different either. I think 97dBA is still pretty good. But the XLS1500 for only $21 more is definitely a better buy.

Your speakers are 10db/w less sensitive than the OP's.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Your speakers are 10db/w less sensitive than the OP's.

More sensitive, but I doubt 10dB. What Kipsch claims is one thing, reality is another. Like when they claim the KL-650 THX speaker is 97dB sensitive, actual measurement shows 92dB/2.83V/m (S&V).

But the OP could do an experiment and see for himself by comparing 25% vs 50% vs 100% Gain.

 

[slovell]

The XLR's will be in my hands today.

 

[Seth=L]

Anticipation is killing me.

 

[slovell]

Anticipation is killing me.

I just got them, I'll have them hooked up shortly.

 

[slovell]

Anticipation is killing me.

The XLR's definitely solved the gain discrepancy with the Marantz prepro, I've now got more gain than I need. The Crown 1500 is a killer amp for the price but it just doesn't have the smooth midrange of the Adcom 5500 with the KLF-20's. The Crown has punch in the bottom and a good top end but loses out in the middle. The Adcom just sounds fuller and smoother, but wasn't $200 when new. Don't get me wrong, if I was starting from scratch a stack of Crowns would probably work nicely for me. That's the downside for me, I would have to buy three more of them, use all XLR's to get a balanced sound from my system (the Adcoms don't have balanced inputs), and I'd have to bridge one or just use a single channel from one for my center. If I bridged one I'm not sure I could ever get the large jump in power balanced out with the center vs the left and right main speakers. I'm impressed with the Crown but I don't think I'm impressed enough to sell my Adcoms and convert my system to them. I think I'm going to look at the Emotiva XPA-7, more money but will probably match up better with my KLF's.

 

[jinjuku]

The XLR's definitely solved the gain discrepancy with the Marantz prepro, I've now got more gain than I need. The Crown 1500 is a killer amp for the price but it just doesn't have the smooth midrange of the Adcom 5500 with the KLF-20's.

Glad you tried. It's funny because my description of the Adcom 5503 was I thought it was a bit muddy/ some grain (what some others call warmth). That it toned down the mid range.

When I got the Crown the transparency is what I was impressed with the most.

 

[PENG]

Glad you tried. It's funny because my description of the Adcom 5503 was I thought it was a bit muddy/ some grain (what some others call warmth). That it toned down the mid range.

When I got the Crown the transparency is what I was impressed with the most.

I am not surprised by the differing impression/opinions as we are dealing with a subjective matter here.

 

[slovell]

Glad you tried. It's funny because my description of the Adcom 5503 was I thought it was a bit muddy/ some grain (what some others call warmth). That it toned down the mid range.

When I got the Crown the transparency is what I was impressed with the most.

I'm glad I tried too. I have to be careful with the KLF's, the horns can become shouty if you get too transparent or bright as some call it. A little warmth with them is a good thing.

 

[KEW]

I believe the differences between two well designed amps (which the Crown and Adcom are) are very slight.
I also do not trust my memory of what one amp sounded like to be accurate enough to be able to seriously compare two amps unless I can A-B them instantly against one another. Others do seem better at this than I (Zeiglj seems to be able to consistently compare speakers he listened to last night with ones he heard 3 years ago).
Having listened and A-B'ed many pairs of speakers, I have also learned that among good options, there are usually trade-offs that may not be clear initially. For example, one speaker may offer good strong bass. It sounds good, sounds better, to me than the other speaker. However after listening to enough different music, I realize that the strong bass is obscuring upper bass (like lower guitar notes) and the other speaker is actually the better (actually one will sound better with some music while the other sounds better with different music).
If you have the time while you are waiting for the Emotiva, listen some more to specific songs (of different styles) using both amps and see if you discover any other differences.
For example you might discover that while the Adcom sounds smoother and fuller in the midrange, the Crown offers a more open detailed resolution. I don't know that that would happen with an amp, but I have experienced that exact trade off with speakers.
Don't mistake what I am saying. I am not trying to convince you that the Crown is equal or superior at all. I am simply suggesting you spend more time evaluating because that has so often been useful to me.

 

[slovell]

I believe the differences between two well designed amps (which the Crown and Adcom are) are very slight.
I also do not trust my memory of what one amp sounded like to be accurate enough to be able to seriously compare two amps unless I can A-B them instantly against one another. Others do seem better at this than I (Zeiglj seems to be able to consistently compare speakers he listened to last night with ones he heard 3 years ago).
Having listened and A-B'ed many pairs of speakers, I have also learned that among good options, there are usually trade-offs that may not be clear initially. For example, one speaker may offer good strong bass. It sounds good, sounds better, to me than the other speaker. However after listening to enough different music, I realize that the strong bass is obscuring upper bass (like lower guitar notes) and the other speaker is actually the better (actually one will sound better with some music while the other sounds better with different music).
If you have the time while you are waiting for the Emotiva, listen some more to specific songs (of different styles) using both amps and see if you discover any other differences.
For example you might discover that while the Adcom sounds smoother and fuller in the midrange, the Crown offers a more open detailed resolution. I don't know that that would happen with an amp, but I have experienced that exact trade off with speakers.
Don't mistake what I am saying. I am not trying to convince you that the Crown is equal or superior at all. I am simply suggesting you spend more time evaluating because that has so often been useful to me.

I agree with you, but I do trust my memory of what my amp/speaker combination sounds like. After all, I've been listening to it for several years now. I listened to the Crown for several hours with both music and a Bluray, enjoyed it but I had channel imbalance problems due to the higher gain with the XLR's on the mains and RCA's on the other five channels. It was OK with stereo but not so much with 7.1. When I swapped the 5500 back in (which only takes a few minutes) the difference in sound was quite apparent using only the mains in stereo. As I said in my previous post, if I had an all Crown setup I'd probably be fairly happy with it as they're not bad amps, not bad at all, quite good actually. For $200 the amp's a downright steal, it's just not the match I want with my Klipsch setup. The transparency/brightness of the Crown causes too much emphasis on the high and mid horns in the KLF's making them sound like they're shouting at you. Does the Crown mellow any after a break-in period?

 

[KEW]

I listened to the Crown for several hours with both music and a Bluray, enjoyed it but I had channel imbalance problems due to the higher gain with the XLR's on the mains and RCA's on the other five channels. It was OK with stereo but not so much with 7.1.

Doesn't the Marantz have Audyssey or at least a set up utility where the Pre-pro will level match the speakers?
Does your imbalance exceed the auto setup system's capability?
I wouldn't expect the Crown to mellow, but I have no direct experience with it.

 

[jinjuku]

Doesn't the Marantz have Audyssey or at least a set up utility where the Pre-pro will level match the speakers?
Does your imbalance exceed the auto setup system's capability?
I wouldn't expect the Crown to mellow, but I have no direct experience with it.

KEW makes a really great point. You will want to run the Auto Correction on the Marantz.

It's not a should or could do. It's a requirement when hooking up new gear. That includes if you swapped out Blu-Ray players.

You would run the room correction again for even that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can't blame the OP for desiring Adcom over Crown.

I desire ATI amps over Crown.

Others desire Parasound, Anthem, McIntosh, Bryston, etc.

 

[jinjuku]

I can't either. Even if he got some other Adcom, Anthem, McIntosh, Bryston, etc...

He should still run the Auto EQ on the Marantz.

There's no other agenda then walking through all the Best Practices doctrine. That includes gain staging, using the correct cabling, and running the Pre-Pro's room correction.

If you are going to evaluate any of the mentioned amp's correctly one needs to take the prerequisite steps.

I would run the EQ and live with the amp for about a week and then revisit if I was the OP.

 

[PENG]

I can't either. Even if he got some other Adcom, Anthem, McIntosh, Bryston, etc...

He should still run the Auto EQ on the Marantz.

There's no other agenda then walking through all the Best Practices doctrine. That includes gain staging, using the correct cabling, and running the Pre-Pro's room correction.

If you are going to evaluate any of the mentioned amp's correctly one needs to take the prerequisite steps.

I would run the EQ and live with the amp for about a week and then revisit if I was the OP.

I fully agree that one needs to take some time before jumping to conclusion unless the difference is truly obvious to anyone.

 

[jinjuku]

Did you ever try running the Marantz room correction and re-evaluate the corrected response?