3 Favorite Classical Pieces

obscbyclouds

obscbyclouds

Senior Audioholic
I had a music major for a roomate in college, and he turned me on to classical music. Even though I was a long-haired, dope smoking hippie, I could enjoy Bartok one night and Jerry Garcia the next. For some reason, "New World Symphony" was always my favorite piece of music. I could listen to it over and over again with getting sick of it.
I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan (if you can't tell by my username), I think alot of my love for "New World" comes from the ambiance of it, the spaciousness, which is very Floydian. Or is Pink Floyd almost Dvoakian? :)
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
I believe there's a LOT of really dated, "stuck in its time period" classical music out there that is hard if not impossible to relate to (this applies to every other genre of music too). That's what kills most people's interest in it...you have to know what to listen to, and that's why having a roomate who knew enough to turn me on to the good stuff was such a gift.
That could be part of my experience. The stuff we played was pretty dull (it had to be, most of us weren't very skilled!:eek:) Hearing classical music butchered by other orchestras not much better than we were probably didn't help, either.
I think I also came to resent my teacher's approach. Improvisation and playing by ear were actively discouraged, and these are important elements of the other music I was discovering on my own during those same years.
 
Starmax

Starmax

Full Audioholic
That could be part of my experience. The stuff we played was pretty dull (it had to be, most of us weren't very skilled!:eek:) Hearing classical music butchered by other orchestras not much better than we were probably didn't help, either.
I think I also came to resent my teacher's approach. Improvisation and playing by ear were actively discouraged, and these are important elements of the other music I was discovering on my own during those same years.
Do me a favor. Actually, do YOURSELF a favor. Go find a CD of Dvorak's "New World Symphony" - it's not hard to find (i.e. not an obscure piece of music) and give it a listen. Loud, of course. Then let me know what you think. Okay?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
all the usual suspects with the addition of Brahm's numbered symphonies, and is it just me or does Anton Dvorak's "New World Symphony" kick eardrum?
You might be interested to know that those two were pretty close friends. Which is a surprise because Brahms had a very hard time making any friends. Oh I'll save you the anecdotes, Im chock full of them as far as musicians and composers, both jazz and classical.

Dvorak wrote a very nice cello concerto. Something Brahms never succeeded with, and was rather proud/envious of Anton for so doing. Of course, Brahms did write the double concerto, but he wasn't limited to the one instrument's range.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I am not familiar with the current orchestra, but Fritz Reiner's tenure at the CSO produced some of the best classical recordings ever made, IMHO.
I liked Solti's recordings. I have a couple of Reiner, but the sq is not so great from what I remember.

In any case, for a long time now, the CSO has had the very best brass section in the entire world.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I've found that classical music can reach both extremes...the deadly dull and dorky extreme and the leave you gasping for breath extreme. I believe there's a LOT of really dated, "stuck in its time period" classical music out there that is hard if not impossible to relate to (this applies to every other genre of music too). That's what kills most people's interest in it...you have to know what to listen to, and that's why having a roomate who knew enough to turn me on to the good stuff was such a gift. I'm not exaggerating when I say that certain Mozart, Brahms and Beethoven pieces can rattle my cage every bit as thoroughly as Pink Floyd or Steely Dan can. I've been playing it for my 14 year old son, and even though he's into typical early teen music like emo, etc., he'll stop voluntarily and listen quietly to what I'm playing. He's not being polite. He GETS it!
I think one aspect that should be emphasized is the actual performance. For instance, for a very long time, I could not care any less about Vivaldi's Four Seasons. Some people call Vivaldi the Great Recycler. But then, I heard the recording by Il Giardino Armonico, and thought, well, perhaps that's not so terribly boring after all...
 
Wafflesomd

Wafflesomd

Senior Audioholic
I'm a music performance major in college, and I hate most famous and well known classical compositions.

Make sense?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
I'm a music performance major in college, and I hate most famous and well known classical compositions.

Make sense?
Hey, why don't you throw in your favorites? :) too many to list? I also got all of my degrees in music performance as well. Tried to make the music thing work out for as long as I could (if you can call it "work out"). My audio dealer found out well after I bought most of my stuff, and he had a great quote: "You must have had a very rich life...(pause)... or ... a very poor life..." LOL. Anyways, I've been in a different field entirely and can now afford things like hi-fi audio! woo-hoo!
 
Starmax

Starmax

Full Audioholic
Unfortunately, nowdays classical music has acquired an elitist stench about it, as other musical forms have passed it by during the last century. Mostly, people still into it have either studied it at some point in their lives, are classical musicians themselves, or are social posers. :)

Rarely do "regular" folks have an appreciation for it, and no wonder - they've never been properly exposed to it. However, I'll offer myself up as living proof that anyone, no matter what sort of musical junk diet they were raised on, can learn to love it. We might not grasp it with the same depth, or appreciate the wide range of periods and styles as true classical buffs do, but there's no truth to the perception that classical music can't speak deeply to anyone alive today. And I'm not talking about the "famous and well know classical compositions" that Wafflesomd mostly hates (and so do I) because they've become mass-marketed cliches of the "Moonlight Sonata" or "Nutcracker Suite" variety...even though those probably would be the choices of the general public in the rare cases they do listen to something classical. I'm saying that almost anyone who actually had the unlikely occasion to hear it, would dig the lesser known composers like Satie or Debussey or Mussorgsky or Prokofiev or Copeland or Saint-Saens or...obviously I'm just scratching the surface here. But it ain't gonna happen on a mass scale. What sort of circumstances would ever allow those vastly separate musical/social worlds to collide?
 
pzaur

pzaur

Audioholic Samurai
I liked Solti's recordings. I have a couple of Reiner, but the sq is not so great from what I remember.

In any case, for a long time now, the CSO has had the very best brass section in the entire world.
Reiner did a lot of great things with the CSO. Most of the recordings are re-released on SACD and can be found here:
www.sa-cd.net
Strauss/Reiner/CSO will always be great.

Any piece recorded with Levine/CSO or Abbado/CSO should be snatched immediately. These two have produced some incredible recordings with Chicago.

Levine did a great set of Dvorak 7 and 9 with the CSO. Simply awesome.

-pat
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Unfortunately, nowdays classical music has acquired an elitist stench about it, as other musical forms have passed it by during the last century. Mostly, people still into it have either studied it at some point in their lives, are classical musicians themselves, or are social posers. :)....

... What sort of circumstances would ever allow those vastly separate musical/social worlds to collide?
Good question. My present answer would be: None.

This will be long, but believe it or not, just a fraction of the things I have thought about regarding the perhaps feeble survival of art music, if only tangentially and/or philosophically. Feel free to ignore this incessant diatribe.

Music, in its myriad forms, is pretty different as the most abstract of arts, and even more so because of its complete pervasiveness, whether in a mall elevator, movie, study session, candlelight romance, doctor’s office, with none of which does any little amount of serious listening usually occur. (Ok, I knew a couple of people who read books when they drove, just terrible, but their family cured them somehow).

*Tangent #1: As far as movie music, I wish they just stuck to the original more often, instead of ripping off 80% of it perhaps to avoid some sort of royalty. The Shostakovich 5th Lento that I spoke of earlier in the thread; I’ve seen it in several movies, notably James Earl Jones’ death-bed scene in one of those Tom Clancy movies. I was disgusted at their arrangement. I prefer a movie like Master and Commander where they just stick with the original. Of course, even in that movie, they use the ubiquitous cello prelude from the first suite, which we normally hear arrangements of incessantly, but without any key change or modulation such as those in Nike ads, PGA/Masters/etc golf ads, women’s hygiene ads, etc. Modulations being the heart and soul of Bach’s music, it wouldn’t surprise me that persons might actually think he’s boring.

If I understand your preface correctly, I think that classical art music has always been "passed by". It was rarely meant for the masses. For centuries, it resided with the church (who owned all things of intellectual property it seems), and generally remained with the rich and privileged, such as kings and queens. There was a time of explosion of the amateur musician at one point, but still…

The closest thing I might think of in regards to accessibility is Mozart in his abilities to transcend the more popular style of "classical era" music (and Im still not a big Mozart fan...yet. Much to learn, as always). Though I don’t follow the going-ons of today’s new compositions anymore… the present, if you will, “classical” style, has become simplified, repetitive, and easily memorable. IMO, not too unlike the classical era, where complexities receded into the background and easy melodies came to the foreground. I say IMO, because it could be argued as far as the recession of complexities, but the main point I am making is the overall simplification. Or, perhaps a more accessible analogy would be to say more like rock music.

*Tangent #2: I tend to liken Stevie Wonder to Mozart, perhaps inaccurately, because I find that he can also transcend the popular idiom of his day to make music that is much more interesting and complex in comparison to his peers. (yes Im a Stevie fan, hehe, and the only American Idol episode I ever watched was the one with Stevie. My friend who does sound for the show got to personally mic him up, to my envy. Anyways, I'd say only 1.5 persons out of the bunch actually succeeded in singing in tune. Too tough for them. Sorry, had to share that).

I remember from an old job in the college days at a large record store where classical sales represented less than 1% of total sales. So did jazz. And this was back then. The store had a separate room for classical, and jazz had its own section that was just as ample. There also used to be these great classical-only Tower Records, especially the one in Berkeley, or like the old one in Philadelphia. They no longer exist, and I’ve found no such store since. My best option that I am aware of is the used collection at Amoeba records in LA. Very good by today’s standards, though nothing like that old Berkeley store.

More on the demise of classical (and jazz): As far as the art musics of jazz and classical, you won't get them on a radio (outside of satellite, of course) driving cross-country except on the coasts, or otherwise in Chicago, St. Louis, or some other major metropolis with a deep musical history. It's been like this for a VERY long time. Southern California used to be the only place in the US with more than one classical station. One of them, highly sought after by everyone due to its enormous broadcasting power (built before certain FCC regulations), is now a country station as of several months ago.

Art music, or just any serious art in general, never catches on with the masses. Is high-brow literature meant only for elitists? Well, I know plenty of non-elitists who read the "classics", but the stuff will never catch on with the masses. It takes an inherent love or severe curiousity to invest the time to learn about it, let alone those who have worked with it in higher education or on a professional level. Something very few people do. Even if people read less literature today, Im sure it was never a widespread thing for the masses. Too much effort for the perceived lack of reward. My guess, anyways.

Classical music has also been on the decline in Europe (though you might not guess it by US standards), the place where all the cool chords we use in the states were invented. In any little town or suburb, they always have had a music school, even a tiny one for a tiny town. I know, I used to teach at such schools. They believe that if you want to learn the flute or piano, the government should make it accessible for anyone who wanted such education. I know in France for instance (like some other countries), children are taught music theory and fundamentals for two whole years before being allowed to choose an instrument of any kind. They have to learn to clap in time, while singing as well, with basic subdivions in basic meters (ok, maybe complex for a 4/4 rock musician), and also learn the basics of dominant harmony. We're talking age 5 to 8 here, for the preparatory part of their education. And yet, their native music is still on the decline. Its a lot of really bad dance-techno music now, perhaps. (An analogy I use for typical music performance education of children in the US would be to hand a child a scalpel, and say "Im going to teach you to be a surgeon. I'll teach you all by myself, and you won’t have any classes in anatomy, biology, or chemistry". I guess it’s possible, but not ideal. Im not European, btw.)

I've tried my best. I've turned more people on to classical and jazz than I can possibly remember. And I've turned a lot of classical musicians to jazz, and a lot of jazz musicians to classical. I still don't ever expect any serious art of any kind to catch on with the masses, whether it be the fine arts or literature. There are folks that just want to stick with their U2 or Dylan or Radiohead or Dave Matthews. That’s fine. They all have different, wonderful, individual things to offer I must presume.

It is what it is. I never really smelled too much of this elitist stench because classical threads are quite rare. This one already lives much longer than usual already. I never start these threads, but always happily join in. I rarely or never barge in on a rock thread and say "Hey, you guys should be listening to classical!", or “I don’t care for rock music because of such and such”, etc.

Then again, maybe I just can't smell my own sh!t.
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Reiner did a lot of great things with the CSO. Most of the recordings are re-released on SACD and can be found here:
www.sa-cd.net
Strauss/Reiner/CSO will always be great.

Any piece recorded with Levine/CSO or Abbado/CSO should be snatched immediately. These two have produced some incredible recordings with Chicago.

Levine did a great set of Dvorak 7 and 9 with the CSO. Simply awesome.

-pat
Thanks pzaur. I knew your name was familiar. We've had discussions before. Hey, have you ever listened to Gardiner's Beethoven symphonies? Its been an extremely long time since I've heard them, but I really loved the practice-period performances; so much clearer textures with the downsized ensemble. Anyways. Last night I gave a first listen to my new disc of Messien's Quartet for the End of Time. I love this piece. Doesn't have the blow your socks off slam from a clarinetist as in a live performance. Im not sure how my recording rates, but its Shaham, Chung, Jiang, someone else. Sorry about my failed memory regarding you:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=810756

I think, including this present thread here, that there have only been three classical threads I have seen anywhere this year. The other two Ive seen lasted only one page. Actually, one of those two was half jazz and half classical. So make it two threads.
 
Starmax

Starmax

Full Audioholic
Jostenmeat: "I've tried my best. I've turned more people on to classical and jazz than I can possibly remember. And I've turned a lot of classical musicians to jazz, and a lot of jazz musicians to classical. I still don't ever expect any serious art of any kind to catch on with the masses, whether it be the fine arts or literature. There are folks that just want to stick with their U2 or Dylan or Radiohead or Dave Matthews. That’s fine. They all have different, wonderful, individual things to offer I must presume."


Much to digest in your tangentatribe. I need to get some work done tonight, so I'm responding to the above quote for now. More later. I don't expect serious art to ever catch on with the masses either. But that's not the fault of the art (in most cases, if it's legitimate and does what art is supposed to do - turn you inside out). I believe the "folks that just want to stick with their U2 or Dylan" etc., would cheat on them in a minute musical minute if they heard something else which spoke to them in a direct and powerful way. All music potentially has that power, regardless of race, creed or lead guitar player. Just because I'll sometimes crank-up Beethoven's "Pastoral" when I need a boost, it doesn't mean I've forsaken Pink Floyd. I'll betcha nobody else would either, if they knew they had the option of hearing both, rather than either/or.
 
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
Strauss/Reiner/CSO will always be great.
...
-pat
I have Reiner's Scheherezade on SACD and it kicks. I really love that piece and it's a great recording that was mixed very well in 3.1.

Jim
 
Wafflesomd

Wafflesomd

Senior Audioholic
Hey, why don't you throw in your favorites? :) too many to list? I also got all of my degrees in music performance as well. Tried to make the music thing work out for as long as I could (if you can call it "work out"). My audio dealer found out well after I bought most of my stuff, and he had a great quote: "You must have had a very rich life...(pause)... or ... a very poor life..." LOL. Anyways, I've been in a different field entirely and can now afford things like hi-fi audio! woo-hoo!

Some of my favorite pieces are actually old high school arrangements I played back in high school. Some are also compositions from video games.

I can't stand Bach, or anyone in that era. I'm a huge fan of Gillingam.

Of course, I have to like John Philips Sousa.
 
pzaur

pzaur

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks pzaur. I knew your name was familiar. We've had discussions before. Hey, have you ever listened to Gardiner's Beethoven symphonies? ...Messien's Quartet for the End of Time.
jostenmeat - I haven't had the chance to check out the recordings by Gardiner. They were encouraged by my collegiate Wind Symphony director because of the tempi used and the period instruments. I know the actual time for each movement is different from the "standard" amount. I'm trying to find them at a local library. Keep hoping that someone will have it available...no luck so far. I've never heard Messian's Quartet for the End of Time. I'll have to check that out.
BTW- I bought the Aperions. Didn't get a chance to check out a ton of speakers. But it was a battle between the B&Ws and Aperion 533-Ts.

I have Reiner's Scheherezade on SACD and it kicks. I really love that piece and it's a great recording that was mixed very well in 3.1.

Jim
I've got that recording in stereo. A great rendition and the last movement is recorded straight through. No edits. That is something tremendous in itself! There's almost always an edit here or there.
You should check out Scheherezade with Masur and the New York Philharmonic. Simply spectacular.
I've got 5 recordings and I'd rank them in this order:

1 - Masur / New York Philharmonic
2 - Reiner / Chicago
3 - Karajan / Berlin
4 - Barenboim / Chicago
5 - Ozawa / Chicago (there are some incredibly bad edits in this recording and it sounds very muddy and dull)

-pat
 
Last edited:
jliedeka

jliedeka

Audioholic General
You should check out Scheherezade with Masur and the New York Philharmonic. Simply spectacular.
I looked it up on Arkiv. It looks like two labels have released it, Apex and Teldec. They seem to have the same songs, just in a different order. Do you have one of those?

Jim
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
Some of my favorite pieces are actually old high school arrangements I played back in high school. Some are also compositions from video games.

I can't stand Bach, or anyone in that era. I'm a huge fan of Gillingam.

Of course, I have to like John Philips Sousa.
You are a band musician I take it? If you are a trained classical musican at the collegiate level or higher, you might be the first such person I've met that couldn't stand any Bach! For me, there is no one even remotely close. I LOVE contrapuntal music...

I've never heard of Gillingam. Video game music?
 
J

jostenmeat

Audioholic Spartan
jostenmeat - I haven't had the chance to check out the recordings by Gardiner. They were encouraged by my collegiate Wind Symphony director because of the tempi used and the period instruments. I know the actual time for each movement is different from the "standard" amount. I'm trying to find them at a local library. Keep hoping that someone will have it available...no luck so far. I've never heard Messian's Quartet for the End of Time. I'll have to check that out.
BTW- I bought the Aperions. Didn't get a chance to check out a ton of speakers. But it was a battle between the B&Ws and Aperion 533-Ts.
-pat
Guess what?! I not only bought that Dvorak recording from the link you provided, I also ordered the complete cycle by Gardiner! LOL This thread has inspired me perhaps. I'll let you know what I think when it arrives. I'm surely going to listen to the 7th to begin with as it has always been my favorite.

I ended up with Martin Logans, on my part. Sorry about the misspelling of "Messiaen".
 
obscbyclouds

obscbyclouds

Senior Audioholic
I'm assuming he means David Gillingham? He's a modern composer, I've got to admit I'm not entirely familiar with his music....

I do love Bach, however, I'm not a classically trained musician, self taught guitar player, and a (badly) self taught pianist. I think playing any kind of instrument gives you a better appreciation for the masters like Bach, Beethoven, Dvorak, Rachmaninoff, Chopin, etc. than those who don't.

I love music that is intricate, complex and (usually) very difficult to play, whether it be Classical, Jazz, Rock, or Heavy Metal. Classical certainly has it's share of intricate and complex pieces.
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top