Best Turntable Isolation Materials

[TLS Guy]

From experience and actual measurements - mag lev is no different to any other kind of "springing"...

In my case I found that the damping provided by sorbothane, improved things more than the spring only behaviour of MagLev.... you can select different thicknesses and hardnesses of sorbothane to provide "springiness" - but maglev simply passes the energy through albeit refracted/difracted to a different frequency, whereas rubber/sorbothan style materials convert some of the energy into heat - so you dissipate more energy.

Springs are useless and actually make transmitted vibrations worse. Rigidity is the answer, and that has been my approach for over half a century. I can assure you that it is a total solution and the correct solution. I have had total freedom from transmitted vibrations for years. You can skip and jump all you want round my turntables and there are zero problems.

 

[dlaloum]

Springs are useless and actually make transmitted vibrations worse. Rigidity is the answer, and that has been my approach for over half a century. I can assure you that it is a total solution and the correct solution. I have had total freedom from transmitted vibrations for years. You can skip and jump all you want round my turntables and there are zero problems.

Springs don't make vibrations worse - depending on the type and materials they can convert some frequency ranges to heat - dissipating it, other vibrations will tend to be converted to energy at the springs resonant frequency (which can be calculated from springs constants and mass etc...) - with a turntable, if the resonant frequency of the spring/mass combination is outside the critical zones - you effectively remove the undesired vibrations and shift them to where they do less harm.

Solid materials will reflect and refract frequencies (just like light, prisms and lenses) - that means with judicious use of materials that reflect or refract at specific frequencies, combined with materials that damp (convert vibration to heat) - you can trap and dissipate specific frequencies.

The trouble with all this is, that in most cases the user has no idea which frequencies are being reflected, which ones refracted and which ones damped - so the end result becomes completely random!

If you use your TT as a measurement instrument (place the needle on the platter with the motor turned off - it becomes a VERY sensitive measuring tool for the frequencies we want!!!) - then you can see what comes through from environmental vibrations/noise, or from feedback, footfall, etc...

And then you can experimentally work through options to reduce those vibrations and improve performance.

Almost invariably, springs are part of the answer.... (in my case Sorbothane pucks acting as combined spings/dampers)

 

[dlaloum]

Springs are useless and actually make transmitted vibrations worse. Rigidity is the answer, and that has been my approach for over half a century. I can assure you that it is a total solution and the correct solution. I have had total freedom from transmitted vibrations for years. You can skip and jump all you want round my turntables and there are zero problems.

P.S. in my 1950's house with wooden floors - the unsuspended JVC QL-Y5 (and similar "solid" unpsrung designs) had dire issues with any form of Rigid mounting.
My Revox B795 which is a sprung turntable design had no major issues

It took me a lot of experimenting to get the platform structure to the point where I could indeed "skip, jump all I want" without any problems!!

So as I have stated before - the solution is highly dependent on the structure of the building it is going in, as well as the specific turntable, and its design (sprung/unsprung) etc.... there is no one solution that fits all cases...

 

[GO-NAD!]

Springs don't make vibrations worse - depending on the type and materials they can convert some frequency ranges to heat - dissipating it, other vibrations will tend to be converted to energy at the springs resonant frequency (which can be calculated from springs constants and mass etc...) - with a turntable, if the resonant frequency of the spring/mass combination is outside the critical zones - you effectively remove the undesired vibrations and shift them to where they do less harm.

Solid materials will reflect and refract frequencies (just like light, prisms and lenses) - that means with judicious use of materials that reflect or refract at specific frequencies, combined with materials that damp (convert vibration to heat) - you can trap and dissipate specific frequencies.

The trouble with all this is, that in most cases the user has no idea which frequencies are being reflected, which ones refracted and which ones damped - so the end result becomes completely random!

If you use your TT as a measurement instrument (place the needle on the platter with the motor turned off - it becomes a VERY sensitive measuring tool for the frequencies we want!!!) - then you can see what comes through from environmental vibrations/noise, or from feedback, footfall, etc...

And then you can experimentally work through options to reduce those vibrations and improve performance.

Almost invariably, springs are part of the answer.... (in my case Sorbothane pucks acting as combined spings/dampers)

I expect that some form of sorbothane damping pucks/feet/pad will be my best option, as wall-mounting won't be a good option for me. I looked at prices for various sorbothane products - they aren't cheap! So, I'd like to keep experimentation to a minimum.

This is what I'm dealing with:

A normal footfall in close proximity to the stand will cause the stylus to skip. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that the softest durometer over the widest area would provide the best chance of success. I would accomplish this by placing a sheet of 1/2" MDF on top of the sorbothane*, with the turntable sitting on the MDF. The MDF would distribute the weight of the turntable over the sorbothane, providing the most absorption with the least compression of the sorbothane. Does that make sense?

*Sheet/pad preferably, or pucks if that is significantly less spendy.

 

[Eppie]

I expect that some form of sorbothane damping pucks/feet/pad will be my best option, as wall-mounting won't be a good option for me. I looked at prices for various sorbothane products - they aren't cheap! So, I'd like to keep experimentation to a minimum.

This is what I'm dealing with:
View attachment 70762

A normal footfall in close proximity to the stand will cause the stylus to skip. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that the softest durometer over the widest area would provide the best chance of success. I would accomplish this by placing a sheet of 1/2" MDF on top of the sorbothane*, with the turntable sitting on the MDF. The MDF would distribute the weight of the turntable over the sorbothane, providing the most absorption with the least compression of the sorbothane. Does that make sense?

*Sheet/pad preferably, or pucks if that is significantly less spendy.

Looks like similar flooring to our war time bungalow. The root issue is likely deflection in the floor joists, which I'm sure you are aware of. Is it a finished space under the floor or would you have access to the joists? Doubling the joists would firm up the floor, assuming there are no gaps between the flooring and the sub-floor and the joists. If you can't do anything to affect the structure underneath, then it comes down to isolating the turntable from the cabinet. I think what you have in mind makes sense as you need mechanical isolation. Does the article touch on isolation platforms like those by IsoAcoustics (zaZen)?

 

[GO-NAD!]

Looks like similar flooring to our war time bungalow. The root issue is likely deflection in the floor joists, which I'm sure you are aware of. Is it a finished space under the floor or would you have access to the joists? Doubling the joists would firm up the floor, assuming there are no gaps between the flooring and the sub-floor and the joists. If you can't do anything to affect the structure underneath, then it comes down to isolating the turntable from the cabinet. I think what you have in mind makes sense as you need mechanical isolation.

My house was built in 1960. The joists are 8" with a 10' span to the centre beam. So, the floor has a bit of spring to it. I can access the joists underneath, but the furnace and hot water heater are right under the affected area, which complicates doubling up the joists, especially with all the wiring, plumbing and ductwork. So, yeah, I think I'll just try to do something with the TT support.

Does the article touch on isolation platforms like those by IsoAcoustics (zaZen)?

Don't think so.

 

[Mikado463]

@GO-NAD! , shame you can't utilize a wall mount approach, that looks like an outside wall behind your rack, perfect !

 

[GO-NAD!]

@GO-NAD! , shame you can't utilize a wall mount approach, that looks like an outside wall behind your rack, perfect !

Yes, that is an exterior wall. I say it's not an option because I don't believe SWMBO would entertain the idea. That said, she can surprise me sometimes. So, perhaps I shouldn't completely discount that option yet. This will have to be tackled in stages. First I need to address vinyl storage.

The cabinet behind the component stand in the photo above is where I'd like to stow my vinyl. However, it's too shallow for the records to sit properly. It has a twin on the other end of that wall. They are built-in and flank the fireplace. I would need to pull them out and rebuild them to suitable dimensions for vinyl storage.

Following that, I would modify or replace the component stand. It's 24" deep, which is way deeper than it needs to be. But it was originally built to house my two 300-CD changers, which are visible in the photo (taken before I disposed of them). This is when we'll have to discuss mounting the TT shelf to the wall.

Regardless, I won't be starting on this until I retire next year. In the meantime, I'm going to try to address the skipping stylus issue as I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[Eppie]

We have springy floors in the living room as well (our house is a decade or two older) that caused an issue with the turntable in certain locations. It's now in the basement on a concrete floor with subfloor, but I guess that doesn't help you much. It's a bugger of a problem because the movement of the cabinet remains. Any chance of replacing the cabinet with a larger one that also accommodates vinyl? Weight will be your friend.

 

[GO-NAD!]

We have springy floors in the living room as well (our house is a decade or two older) that caused an issue with the turntable in certain locations. It's now in the basement on a concrete floor with subfloor, but I guess that doesn't help you much. It's a bugger of a problem because the movement of the cabinet remains. Any chance of replacing the cabinet with a larger one that also accommodates vinyl? Weight will be your friend.

The long term goal is to store most of my vinyl in a separate cabinet, although I expect there will be some vinyl in the component stand. But, I'm not going to depend on that to dampen floor vibrations. To be clear, this isn't a high traffic area and the stylus skipping isn't a constant annoyance. I'm going to try to mitigate the issue, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

 

[ski2xblack]

I still think you would benefit from a high mass platform under the turntable, isolated from the cabinet, as mikado and I have done as described upthread. Perfect? Perhaps not. Mitigate the issue? For sure.

 

[dlaloum]

I expect that some form of sorbothane damping pucks/feet/pad will be my best option, as wall-mounting won't be a good option for me. I looked at prices for various sorbothane products - they aren't cheap! So, I'd like to keep experimentation to a minimum.

This is what I'm dealing with:
View attachment 70762

A normal footfall in close proximity to the stand will cause the stylus to skip. I may be wrong, but I'm thinking that the softest durometer over the widest area would provide the best chance of success. I would accomplish this by placing a sheet of 1/2" MDF on top of the sorbothane*, with the turntable sitting on the MDF. The MDF would distribute the weight of the turntable over the sorbothane, providing the most absorption with the least compression of the sorbothane. Does that make sense?

*Sheet/pad preferably, or pucks if that is significantly less spendy.

Very similar from my old place...

I would start with a very large concrete paver under the rack/cabinet (mine was 60cm x 60cm), sitting on top of either 4 or 5 large sorbothane pucks...

That was the single step that made the biggest difference on my unsprung turntable.

(my sprung turntable handled this type of setup fine without needing the additional steps)

 

[GO-NAD!]

Very similar from my old place...

I would start with a very large concrete paver under the rack/cabinet (mine was 60cm x 60cm), sitting on top of either 4 or 5 large sorbothane pucks...

That was the single step that made the biggest difference on my unsprung turntable.

(my sprung turntable handled this type of setup fine without needing the additional steps)

Not sure a concrete paver is gonna be something the missus will happy with. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that the more weight you stack on the sorbothane pucks, the more they will compress, reducing their capacity to absorb vibration. I suppose it's a function of matching the mass with the durometer rating of the pucks...