Tekton Enzo - The most inexpensive speakers that is in the league with high-end speaker

[ImcLoud]

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him THINK... I think this thread is done until he gets all his equipment in, hopefully he likes it and is happy with it, thats all that matters.. HSU subs are awesome, so he won't be all downs. I will be playing my lores tonight, just got a copy of Bruces working on a dream live in germany cd, and I have a ton of invoices to go through and enter, so Ill be listening a while...

 

[SearchofSub]

Whoa.. Didnt expect new members to chime in.

I have hardwood floors, and I thoght room acoustics or treatments are the next important thing next to your speakers and that is why I am planning to get a thick rug to place in middle of the room. Alot of the owners of Tekton cant get enough of them, they sound so good (as said by owners themselves) so they turn it up to ear bleeding levels and/or until the tweeter blows..
I dont think I am gonna get the Morpheus cables, I am just gonna settle for the Blue Jean cables. Gonna spend that money on Outlaw 975 preamp and Outlaw 7075 combo. C-Net review said that this combo kills any plain old AV reciever in sound quality. (the highest priced denon's) And ended the article sayinig he does think that recievers and seperates DO make a difference in sound.

Man all this different opinions on what to get and what not to get saying "we" told you this... where is the "we" every poster has a different opinion on this thread as to what to get lol. (mostly)

BTW, every owner of the Tekton product is praising them. One owner said that the Tekton Lore-S beats the Triton II's in every way EXCEPT the bass department. But I am getting a sub so that wouldnt matter. I still dont have a clue why ANY posters who have not heard them say all this negative things about them when the actual owners themselves praise them like its the second coming of christ...

 

[GranteedEV]

I have hardwood floors, and I thoght room acoustics or treatments are the next important thing next to your speakers and that is why I am planning to get a thick rug to place in middle of the room.

If a speaker is well-designed, you do not have to treat its reflected sound power response to get good sound. Sometimes treatments can be beneficial for specific goals, and some rooms are indeed VERY poor. But generally, a well-designed speaker will load a room in such a way that good sound does not require band-aid solutions. You'll notice, for example, that people set up their Linkwitz Orions in such rooms on purpose:

Now, if a room is poor to the point where everyday conversation is unintelligble - then of course you need to evaluate that. But the idea that treatments are one of the most important things is something perpetuated by owners of poorly designed loudspeakers. Hmmmmmmmm.

Gonna spend that money on Outlaw 975 preamp and Outlaw 7075 combo. C-Net review said that this combo kills any plain old AV reciever in sound quality.

Many of us hear these claims, yet when we compare these so-called differences in sound quality, we either can't hear them, or we have to strain beyond belief to actually identify a difference, and it ends up being negligible at best.

(the highest priced denon's) And ended the article sayinig he does think that recievers and seperates DO make a difference in sound.

What was their testing methodology? Was it level-matched? Were the electronics within their limitations? Was it blind?

"X person said so, so it's got to be true"

FWIW I'm not stating the opposite, but just stating that such differences have to be identified under actually CONTROLLED conditions to be valid. I will even question such statements from seasoned vets like Gene because NO ONE is free from expectation bias or being preconditioned against certain designs, especially with such minutia as being discussed.

Man all this different opinions on what to get and what not to get saying "we" told you this... where is the "we" every poster has a different opinion on this thread as to what to get lol. (mostly)

Name one post in this thread where any of us suggested a mundorf upgrade. We've been telling you since the first page.. avoid it like the plague.

BTW, every owner of the Tekton product is praising them. One owner said that the Tekton Lore-S beats the Triton II's in every way EXCEPT the bass department. But I am getting a sub so that wouldnt matter.

That's because anyone smart, or critical, or not-gullible enough to properly evaluate them would not ever bother to do so.

I still dont have a clue why ANY posters who have not heard them say all this negative things about them when the actual owners themselves praise them like its the second coming of christ...

Because they simply can NOT be accurate loudspeakers. The design decisions preclude them from that. And since the fundamental objective of a loudspeaker is to accurately reproduce a recording, that means they fail at their primary objective. Owners may still love them because, for starters, they have crappy recordings they want to put a curtain over. soft paper cones in their breakup range, with very reduced midrange off-axis response (before the inevitable tweeter bloom that is) can be very pleasing. Heck, Bose speakers can be very pleasing. Most of us would steer people away from Bose, but Bose owners certainly wouldn't.

Pleasing =/= musical though, no matter what hyperbole a so-called """professional""" reviewer for CNET might say. Real professionals - the guys doing mastering at various studios who are the ones interpreting the music to present it - would tell you as much.

 

[SearchofSub]

So are you saying EVERY Tekton speaker will eventually have a tweeter blow-out? Reviewer for the C-Net is Stev Guttenberg. The guy makes a living testing out AV gear and have done it for a VERY VERY long time. And when someone gets PAID to assess a AV gear, I think thats more credible than others who have NEVER heard the equipment but passes judgement on them.

There is no conspiracy going on with Steve Guttenberg saying the seperates of Outlaw combo and the new Emotiva combo hands down kills the highest reciever's dac capabilities in sound. There is no need to, the very AVR he put down, he also reviewed first hand so there ceretainly isnt a conpisracy going on... he said the highest Denon reviever sounds excellent on its own, but when compared to the seperates combo of Outlaw/Emotiva preamp-amp, the combo is at another level. Kind of like ignorance is bliss, or, now I see kind of deal.


I'm not sure if you know this but speakers that are completely FLAT tend to be dull and boring. It just sounds lifeless and there certainly isnt a sparkle to them. Just my opinion ofcourse.

 

[shadyJ]

The Tekton tweeter is more likely to blow out because of how low it has to be crossed over to the woofer. A consequence of that is its is playing down to a range where it is undoubtedly running into greater distortion than it would have otherwise. As for Steve Guttenberg, his judgement is hardly beyond reproach. After all, he did choose to star in the Police Academy films.

 

[SearchofSub]

If a speaker is well-designed, you do not have to treat its reflected sound power response to get good sound. Sometimes treatments can be beneficial for specific goals, and some rooms are indeed VERY poor. But generally, a well-designed speaker will load a room in such a way that good sound does not require band-aid solutions. You'll notice, for example, that people set up their Linkwitz Orions in such rooms on purpose:

Now, if a room is poor to the point where everyday conversation is unintelligble - then of course you need to evaluate that. But the idea that treatments are one of the most important things is something perpetuated by owners of poorly designed loudspeakers. Hmmmmmmmm.



Many of us hear these claims, yet when we compare these so-called differences in sound quality, we either can't hear them, or we have to strain beyond belief to actually identify a difference, and it ends up being negligible at best.



What was their testing methodology? Was it level-matched? Were the electronics within their limitations? Was it blind?

"X person said so, so it's got to be true"

FWIW I'm not stating the opposite, but just stating that such differences have to be identified under actually CONTROLLED conditions to be valid. I will even question such statements from seasoned vets like Gene because NO ONE is free from expectation bias or being preconditioned against certain designs, especially with such minutia as being discussed.



Name one post in this thread where any of us suggested a mundorf upgrade. We've been telling you since the first page.. avoid it like the plague.



That's because anyone smart, or critical, or not-gullible enough to properly evaluate them would not ever bother to do so.



Because they simply can NOT be accurate loudspeakers. The design decisions preclude them from that. And since the fundamental objective of a loudspeaker is to accurately reproduce a recording, that means they fail at their primary objective. Owners may still love them because, for starters, they have crappy recordings they want to put a curtain over. soft paper cones in their breakup range, with very reduced midrange off-axis response (before the inevitable tweeter bloom that is) can be very pleasing. Heck, Bose speakers can be very pleasing. Most of us would steer people away from Bose, but Bose owners certainly wouldn't.

Pleasing =/= musical though, no matter what hyperbole a so-called """professional""" reviewer for CNET might say. Real professionals - the guys doing mastering at various studios who are the ones interpreting the music to present it - would tell you as much.

If a speaker is well-designed, you do not have to treat its reflected sound power response to get good sound. Sometimes treatments can be beneficial for specific goals, and some rooms are indeed VERY poor. But generally, a well-designed speaker will load a room in such a way that good sound does not require band-aid solutions. You'll notice, for example, that people set up their Linkwitz Orions in such rooms on purpose:



Hey that saves me more money to spend on higher line speakers thanks.

 

[SearchofSub]

The Tekton tweeter is more likely to blow out because of how low it has to be crossed over to the woofer. A consequence of that is its is playing down to a range where it is undoubtedly running into greater distortion than it would have otherwise. As for Steve Guttenberg, his judgement is hardly beyond reproach. After all, he did choose to star in the Police Academy films.

As for Steve Guttenberg, his judgement is hardly beyond reproach. After all, he did choose to star in the Police Academy films.

 

[GranteedEV]

And when someone gets PAID to assess a AV gear, I think thats more credible than others who have NEVER heard the equipment but passes judgement on them.

You may choose to believe so. I will leave my confidence in guys who not only got PAID to assess AV gear, but have masters and PH.Ds, decades of variable-controlled research, dollars of research, and PEER REVIEW etc backing them up.

There is no conspiracy going on with Steve Guttenberg saying the seperates of Outlaw combo and the new Emotiva combo hands down kills the highest reciever's dac capabilities in sound. There is no need to, the very AVR he put down, he also reviewed first hand so there ceretainly isnt a conpisracy going on... he said the highest Denon reviever sounds excellent on its own, but when compared to the seperates combo of Outlaw/Emotiva preamp-amp, the combo is at another level

Steve Guttenberg is a known snake-oil subscriber. He has documented that he uses Zu Audio cables because he thinks they sound better. He, like you and many others, has never actually done or looked at a VALID, correctly controlled experiment nor does he understand how these components operate. He simply gets paid to lie to spread lies, and CNET probably just doesn't care, because they're not experts on the subject matter - they're just a business. I doubt Gene, who is an expert on the topic, would hire this guy. In fact there's a reason most of us are here at Audioholics - because Gene's writers tend to be actual professionals and the articles are actually peer reviewed here.

I'm not sure if you know this but speakers that are completely FLAT tend to be dull and boring. It just sounds lifeless and there certainly isnt a sparkle to them. Just my opinion ofcourse.

Right. Sure. Your opinion. Lemme guess. Based on what you read.

Because you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and you're just regurgitating something you probably read somewhere, written by other people who had not a clue what they were talking about. Of course, you'd probably be the first to pick accurate speakers in a blind test as your favorite, as has been shown at over 85% likely to be the region-and-age invariant preference when biases are removed - see Olive / Toole etc.

Because according to you, my Phils lack sparkle if all things.

Excuse me while I go roll on the floor and laugh.

 

[GranteedEV]

Hey that saves me more money to spend on higher line speakers thanks.

Not if you get tektons, sorry.

 

[SearchofSub]

You may choose to believe so. I will leave my confidence in guys who not only got PAID to assess AV gear, but have masters and PH.Ds, decades of variable-controlled research, dollars of research, and PEER REVIEW etc backing them up.



Steve Guttenberg is a known snake-oil subscriber. He has documented that he uses Zu Audio cables because he thinks they sound better. He, like you and many others, has never actually done or looked at a VALID, correctly controlled experiment nor does he understand how these components operate. He simply gets paid to lie to spread lies, and CNET probably just doesn't care, because they're not experts on the subject matter - they're just a business. I doubt Gene, who is an expert on the topic, would hire this guy. In fact there's a reason most of us are here at Audioholics - because Gene's writers tend to be actual professionals and the articles are actually peer reviewed here.



Right. Sure. Your opinion. Lemme guess. Based on what you read.

Because you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and you're just regurgitating something you probably read somewhere, written by other people who had not a clue what they were talking about.

Of course, you'd probably be the first to pick accurate speakers in a blind test as your favorite, as has been shown at over 85% likely to be the region-and-age invariant preference when biases are removed - see Olive / Toole etc.

I HAD a 5.1 system before I sold everything off to go 2.0/2.1. I have heard speakers in the past. I like reading reviews that are posted here, for example, shadyJ suggested that I get a VTF 2.4 on another thread awhile back, so I read the review that Audioholics did on HSU VTF-15.

Now based on that review, it isnt very good, that it lacks SOMETHING for its price (thats the impression you get once you read through the original review and the follow-up) does that mean I have to count that out and go for a SVS or a Rythmic? Its pretty safe to say if the very top line model of a partgicular product (hsu sub in this case) is not praised or applauded completely (like how Andrew R at hometheatre or a couple other pro reviwers did for of pendragons, mlores etc) that I would have to not even look twice at buying that brand?

BUT, it seems ironic that Hsu subs gets praised by the owners ALL the time on AVS and here as well...


What I am trying to say is, I think YOU should buy a pair of the Tekton and listen to them yourself. There is no snake-oil conpsiracy going on, ask t he very owners of HSU subs HERE how they sound.. From the review, the VTF-15 isnt so good, but the actual owners like them.

 

[shadyJ]

The difference is Hsu lets their products get exposed to reviews that do measurements. The strengths and weaknesses of their products are exposed and known. Hsu also subscribes to well-founded and widely accepted designs principles. Tekton seemingly only permits their products to be reviewed by subjective reviews. If there is a professional review of Tekton anywhere I will take that statement back.

 

[GranteedEV]

I HAD a 5.1 system before I sold everything off to go 2.0/2.1. I have heard speakers in the past.

And what speakers in the past were those?

I like reading reviews

we noticed that. You seem to do nothing but read reviews.

Now based on that review, it isnt very good, that it lacks SOMETHING for its price (thats the impression you get once you read through the original review and the follow-up) does that mean I have to count that out and go for a SVS or a Rythmic?

Actually there were issues with that review's assessment of the product that I had pointed out almost immediately with regards to its variable tuning options. So, and while I greatly respect Paul Apollonio, there was definitely an issue. Though it's really irrelevant to this discussion.

Its pretty safe to say if the very top line model of a partgicular product is not praised or applauded completely (like how Andrew R at hometheatre or a couple other pro reviwers did for of pendragons, mlores etc) that I would have to not even look twice at buying that brand?

Right.
Because every reviewer who gets paid to review is equally qualified and should be equally weighted.
Righhhtttt.

I've learned that isn't quite the case. Even some moderately credible reviewers have moments where their credibility gets thrown out the window - guys like John Atkinson and Kal Rubinson of stereophile are guys whose reviews I don't mind but I sure don't take everything they say without a grain of salt.

BUT, it seems ironic that Hsu subs gets praised by the owners ALL the time on AVS and here as well...

Ironic, in what way? I see no irony, when it's been established that we don't depend on so-called listening reviews to form our own opinions. We depend on the facts. And on that note, the VTF-15 proved rather spectacular when used in its lower tuned vented mode, which was not how it was originally tested and listened to.

What I am trying to say is, I think YOU should buy a pair of the Tekton and listen to them yourself.

Why should I spend money on a poor design? I'm not about to buy a Tekton, nor am I about to buy anything else that fails to sell itself. Sorry, but no quality product needs random people to wax poetic about it to sell. Quality products will sell on their own feet.

Never mind that, but this business has the track record of a person on craigslist selling a car at half its value from outside of the country because they're on vacation.

But I should spend my money on this?

Let me clarify even further my thoughts.

I expect I am competent enough to reproduce any tekton design at home. Perhaps even better them.

....I would choose not to design and construct such a loudspeaker myself.

There is no snake-oil conpsiracy going on,

The guy you continue to reference, Steve Guttenberg, contends that different wires have different sounds. He has no well-documented, controlled tests to verify that, or any other claim.

The other guy you continue to reference, Andrew Robinson, is just a reviewer. A regular guy no different from myself. Heck, I went through the "review process" before myself, so I've got a bit of an idea of what biases are and aren't involved. There ARE visual biases. There IS a sense of "I don't want to completely tear this product apart for its obvious shortcomings". In my phone correspondances I even experienced a form of pre-conditioning. I even felt my review itself was received poorly for not being overly positive!! All of this was froma company I consider ten, nay, a hundred times better as a prospective customer than Tekton.

ask t he very owners of HSU subs HERE how they sound.. From the review, the VTF-15 isnt so good, but the actual owners like them.

Again, this is a tangent that has nothing to do with anything. I would NEVER recommend a subwoofer based on anyone's subjective impressions for a variety of reasons related to bass perception and also the impact of the modal region of real life rooms upon it. Nor do I often spend my time reading user reviews of subs for those reasons.

But if we're going to reference that review, here's a key takeaway:

it is so very difficult to go online and find honest and complete reviews that are not pure pablum. Entrants will threaten to withhold ad dollars, making business difficult or impossible for the honest reviewers who give criticism as well as praise in an effort to be fair to both the reader and the reviewed. I contend as a contributing writer that Audioholics is doing a fantastic job of trying to be fair and even handed. Our data and reviews are peer reviewed by folks of exceptional ability and we present this data with both great pride and confidence.

 

[SearchofSub]

The difference is Hsu lets their products get exposed to reviews that do measurements. The strengths and weaknesses of their products are exposed and known. Hsu also subscribes to well-founded and widely accepted designs principles. Tekton seemingly only permits their products to be reviewed by subjective reviews. If there is a professional review of Tekton anywhere I will take that statement back.

What AVS reviewer would you NOT question? Will Audioholics do? currently ALL the pro-reviewers that have recived the Tekton for a review have nothing but positive comments about them.

 

[shadyJ]

Reviews with measurements are the ones I pay attention to. Stereophile, Audioholics, and a few others. The more measurements the better. I doubt Audioholics would be interested in reviewing your Tekton speakers, they would likely be reluctant to review speakers complete with measurements without the manufacturer's consent.

 

[fuzz092888]

Any AVS reviewer that backs up his statements with objective, rational data.

That's not how audioholics works. AFAIK they don't charge anything to review, but you have to cover shipping both ways.

What AVS reviewer would you NOT question? Will Audioholics do? currently ALL the pro-reviewers that have recived the Tekton for a review have nothing but positive comments about them.

 

[fuzz092888]

Reviews with measurements are the ones I pay attention to. Stereophile, Audioholics, and a few others. The more measurements the better. I doubt Audioholics would be interested in reviewing your Tekton speakers, they would likely be reluctant to review speakers complete with measurements without the manufacturer's consent.

I think they would take the measurements, but only for the person who sent them in. Posting them on a public forum or allowing the person to wouldn't be allowed, by my estimation.

 

[SearchofSub]

Ofcourse I have to ask for Eric (Tektons) permission before I do that, thats the order, but if they do both consent, I am willling but I highly doubt it will happen because I am simply too lazy to do all that now that I think about it.

There is a measurement done on the Tekton Pendragons from StereoMojo. I think some mebers dismissed those measurements because of octave (?) not being done properly, or upto standards.

So far there ALL the pro-reviwers have done NOTHING but praise the Tektons. Andrew Robinson as well as Stereomojo/C-Net/StereoTimes/ParttimeAudiophille) have announced to the public through their published reviews as using their Tektons as their references speakers (HomeTheatreReview/StereoMojo). And if you read Andrew robinsons most recent reviews of recievers or amps he does infact always use Tekton speakers as the reference point.

Edit, forgot Positive-Reviews also praised the Tekton Lores as like the second coming of Christ...

Stereotimes reviewer said his Magnepans are now sitting in the back of the room after listening to the Lore-S..


Now are all these 6-7 pro-reviewers out of their mind and ears??

Infact, one reviewer from StereoMojo thought he was.. so he called his associate for a second review, and he was floored as well.



You have to kind of see that these pro-reviewers have tested and heard more equipments than you and I can ever dream of. From the priciest to the cheapest etc..


The least you can do is not call them snake-oil.

 

[shadyJ]

I retract my previous statement, Tekton did permit a review of their speaker at Stereomojo. But $2500 for this?

 

[fuzz092888]

R.I.P. clear, rational thought.

 

[GranteedEV]

Now are all these 6-7 pro-reviewers out of their mind and ears??

Pretty much. I'm sure Tekton speakers sound better than Logitech computer speakers. But beyond that, let's just say that in this world, quantity is not better than quality. I'd take one quality review over dozens of reviews by "randoms". And I very much am willing to accept that I'm in the random category if you want to insist on that.

I sure as hell wouldn't value the review of anyone whose reference speakers were B&W (IE Andrew Robinson pre-Tekton or even Kal Rubinson) or who is dumb enough to think cables change sound (steve guttenberg). Actually, you'll rarely find me reading any reviews because I think most audio reviewers are in fact pretty poor listeners, who also may be using extremely poor-measuring electronics chains. In fact I think the industry as a whole is such a mess that I generally wouldn't participate in much of it.

And mind you, I'm not even one of the people on this board who would shoot down the possibility of subtle differences in sound between components such as capacitors or amplifiers or preamplifiers or DACs - I just think those potential differences are a waste of time/money to chase after without strict controls in place to make a comparision - something which never seems to be the case.

Forget all the above though.

How do you qualify someone as a "Professional Listener"?

You seem to believe that having heard a great quantity of gear (with the presumption that some of that gear can even be "heard" in the first place) is the qualifier. I disagree. I don't know what the qualifier is myself, but that's why I don't get very caught up in subjective reviews.

All I know is, the Tekton M-Lores that you're dreaming about, use an Eminence Beta-8 and off-the-shelf Vifa BC25. Decent budget drivers but nothing I would personally order.