Bryston Model T Floorstanding Speakers

[fuzz092888]

I wonder if you would even care about "balance and first hand knowledge" if this was some other speaker that had no association with Axiom?

This is a Bryston speaker not a Axiom speaker so i'm not sure why the Axiom guys give a damn about whats being discussed here. Theres plenty of bashing threads with many other brands but I don't see you guys chiming in on those asking for balance and experiences. Even if they have experience with something you guys still complain if someone gives a negative opinion.

I wonder if you all would attack the poster if he had negatives to say about the Bryston. You would just acuse him of being a troll and creating a thread just to bash a wonderful company, blah blah.

Yes

L'audace, toujours l'audace.

 

[Grador]

So why has everyone all of a sudden gone into flame mode?

Thanks ADTG for trying to calm things down.

 

[monkish54]

The Salon 2 measures impeccably but as I mentioned it is a very sterile and emotionless speaker. I respect it very much and admire it but it's "sound" was not for me. While the Bryston and Revel et al may have similar design goals they certainly do not all sound the same.

Then why seek out speakers with the same measurements/goals? The Salon 2's goals are desirable because Harman's research shows successful implementation of these goals makes for a neutral speaker. You clearly don't like a neutral speaker (not that the Salon 2 is COMPLETELY neutral...), so why search for a speaker the measures well in these areas? If your goal is personal enjoyment as apposed to neutrality, why not determine frequency anomalies that you find pleasurable and seek those out? I know you have stated you seek neutrality, but that doesn't seem consistent with what your ears tell you. These questions have nothing to do with the Model T. While I have publicly spoken out against this speaker, I don't think it's impossible for them to sound pleasing. My problem with them is the cost and the tweeters they use to cut costs. It see it as a form of robbery. I feel the same about Wilson, YG Acoustics (even though I think they are great), and any other speaker company that uses off-the-shelf drivers but adds some unnecessary component to their product so that they can justify a ridiculous price. In the case of YG this is a huge metal cabinet that costs a fortune to make. You don't need metal to make a cabinet dead, you need it to justify $100,000+ retail price.

Many thanks to 3db & Stedanko for bringing some balance & first hand knowledge & experiences of the M Ts to this thread.

Sted: Unfortunately it seems that your posts are not to be believed as photos providing proof of your ownership of these fine units are now required to establish credibility here...

TAM

It has more to do with him than the thread. Someone new is making claims in a VERY controversial thread. Had I claimed I loved the speakers, no one would have asked for proof because most here know me.

Had someone asked ADTG, PENG, Irv, etc for proof I would have taken issue. They all have good reputations, and accusing somone of lying just because one disagrees with them is unacceptable. Asking a new guy to prove himself, however, is totally fair IMO. He has to build credibility just like everyone else.

Welcome to audioholics. I don't recall many other threads in which the poster was required to prove ownership via pictures. There was some ugliness between Axiom and Audioholics and you are seeing the fallout here.

Hope you enjoy your Brystons.

Don't expect any love here...

Read the above.

I for one have no issue with Stedanko or his purchase. Do I think he got ripped off? Absolutely! If he is happy, do I care? Absolutely not! If he enjoys the Model T I am happy for him. I refuse to recommend the speaker and I doubt very much I will be using enduring terms to describe it in the future, but that doesn't mean I have animosity toward Stedanko. I congratulate him on his purchase and I hope he enjoys them for many years to come.

 

[PENG]

A few years ago when I first auditioned the B+W 800D and 802D, I posted on AH that I thought my Definitive BP7000SC sounded much better than the 800D + 802D.

It was just my personal opinion, nothing more.

Obviously, it does not mean that the BP7000SC is better than the 800D + 802D.

Yet most people seemed offended by my personal opinion. It was just one personal opinion, nothing more.

It's the same thing here with one person saying he thinks the Bryston sounds better to him than the Revel and KEF, etc.

Obviously, it does not mean that the Bryston is better than the Salon2 + 207/2. It was just one personal opinion, nothing more. It's really no big deal.

I can tell you I remember not being offended at the time but did feel you had quite an opinion.

 

[exlabdriver]

It might be safe to assume that all of the unwarranted initial speculation and needless controversy that occurred way back near the start of this thread probably would not have happened if the Model Ts had come out of a different factory...

TAM

 

[Stedanko]

I for one have no issue with Stedanko or his purchase. Do I think he got ripped off? Absolutely! If he is happy, do I care? Absolutely not! If he enjoys the Model T I am happy for him. I refuse to recommend the speaker and I doubt very much I will be using enduring terms to describe it in the future, but that doesn't mean I have animosity toward Stedanko. I congratulate him on his purchase and I hope he enjoys them for many years to come.

But of course you haven't heard them rendering any opinion moot.

 

[Stedanko]

Then why seek out speakers with the same measurements/goals? The Salon 2's goals are desirable because Harman's research shows successful implementation of these goals makes for a neutral speaker. You clearly don't like a neutral speaker (not that the Salon 2 is COMPLETELY neutral...), so why search for a speaker the measures well in these areas? If your goal is personal enjoyment as apposed to neutrality, why not determine frequency anomalies that you find pleasurable and seek those out? I know you have stated you seek neutrality, but that doesn't seem consistent with what your ears tell you. These questions have nothing to do with the Model T. While I have publicly spoken out against this speaker, I don't think it's impossible for them to sound pleasing. My problem with them is the cost and the tweeters they use to cut costs. It see it as a form of robbery. I feel the same about Wilson, YG Acoustics (even though I think they are great), and any other speaker company that uses off-the-shelf drivers but adds some unnecessary component to their product so that they can justify a ridiculous price. In the case of YG this is a huge metal cabinet that costs a fortune to make. You don't need metal to make a cabinet dead, you need it to justify $100,000+ retail price.

No I favour neutrality above all else the Salon 2 is a clinical sounding speaker. I prefer the original Salon and F52 to the Salon2. You should feel the same about Wilson as they are Vastly OVERPRICED, use cheap and in many cases improper drivers and neither sound good or measure well. I've had the original Sophia and WP/7.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

No I favour neutrality above all else the Salon 2 is a clinical sounding speaker. I prefer the original Salon and F52 to the Salon2. You should feel the same about Wilson as they are Vastly OVERPRICED, use cheap and in many cases improper drivers and neither sound good or measure well. I've had the original Sophia and WP/7.

I'm not sure Monk's post endorsed the Wilsons in any way. He confined his positive comments about sound quality to the YG Acoustics. I think we can all agree that Wilson charges way more than can be justified by sound quality alone. I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean my "clinical" as apposed to neutral. It seems to me that you just prefer a speaker with less output in the 2k - 8k range.

 

[gene]

I'm not sure Monk's post endorsed the Wilsons in any way. He confined his positive comments about sound quality to the YG Acoustics. I think we can all agree that Wilson charges way more than can be justified by sound quality alone. I'm having a little trouble understanding what you mean my "clinical" as apposed to neutral. It seems to me that you just prefer a speaker with less output in the 2k - 8k range.

Considering his room has wood floors and little to no wall treatments, that makes a lot of sense.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I can tell you I remember not being offended at the time but did feel you had quite an opinion.

Some guys just like to be controversial.

Not necessarily intentional, of course, but controversial nonetheless.

 

[3db]

This whole thread has been controversial and before the Soundstage measurements came out, more people jumped on the band wagon of of the Model Ts being a price gouging version of a cheap rebranded Axioms and assumed they sounded bad based on price, looks, had an affiliation with Axiom. I reserved judgement about Bryston's offerings until measurements came out. We can conclude from these measurements and Soundstage's review that a lot of engineering went behind both driver and cabinet manufacturer and that they are a far cry above what was called a "rebadged or rebraned Axiom". Maybe, Soundtsage measurements may be lacking in one particular area but the rest remain remain solid, far better measurements than Home Theater and Sound N Vision provide, and en par with Stereophile provide. All of these magazines are routinely called upon in speaker discussion threads. Yet somehow, Soundstage gets labelled incorrectly and inappropriately as providing "smoke and mirror" testing which is definately not the case. In defense of Soundstage, I may have come out swinging a little too hard and I apologize for that. I'm happy I waited for the Soundstage measurements to come in.

The Brystons are a far cry from being a rebadged Axiom speaker. They are a solid speaker. Whether or not they are worth the asking price is up to the buyer. Some people feel that Onkyo provides great value and bang for the buck but they have been plagued with poor QC and an abysmal customer relationship. To each their own.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Considering his room has wood floors and little to no wall treatments, that makes a lot of sense.

That photograph is very revealing.

 

[gtpsuper24]

This whole thread has been controversial

I would say mostly because of Axiom affiliation. Its been known for years how Axiom skimps on crossovers, cabinets, driver quality, while at the same time charging a premium for its products against the competition. On top of that the oddball driver layouts and bizzare half thought out crossover designs (mids running full range, woofers beaming), cheap stamped drivers and bargain bin tweeters (same as in the Bryston). Dayton Audio DC25T-8 1" Titanium Dome Tweeter 275-045



So its no wonder the Model T received the response it did. Just look at Axioms history of making speakers. As a former Axiom owner I actually have experience with Axiom speakers and will never consider anything made, designed or engineered by them ever again.

 

[cpp]

This whole thread has been controversial and before the Soundstage measurements came out, more people jumped on the band wagon of of the Model Ts being a price gouging version of a cheap rebranded Axioms and assumed they sounded bad based on price, looks, had an affiliation with Axiom. I reserved judgement about Bryston's offerings until measurements came out. We can conclude from these measurements and Soundstage's review that a lot of engineering went behind both driver and cabinet manufacturer and that they are a far cry above what was called a "rebadged or rebraned Axiom". Maybe, Soundtsage measurements may be lacking in one particular area but the rest remain remain solid, far better measurements than Home Theater and Sound N Vision provide, and en par with Stereophile provide. All of these magazines are routinely called upon in speaker discussion threads. Yet somehow, Soundstage gets labelled incorrectly and inappropriately as providing "smoke and mirror" testing which is definately not the case. In defense of Soundstage, I may have come out swinging a little too hard and I apologize for that. I'm happy I waited for the Soundstage measurements to come in.

The Brystons are a far cry from being a rebadged Axiom speaker. They are a solid speaker. Whether or not they are worth the asking price is up to the buyer. Some people feel that Onkyo provides great value and bang for the buck but they have been plagued with poor QC and an abysmal customer relationship. To each their own.

Well said. I think once these speakers get out into the public and other people perform test and people actually can hear them, who knows these speakers could very well sound great regardless of the price.

 

[Stedanko]

Considering his room has wood floors and little to no wall treatments, that makes a lot of sense.

Of course that picture does not show the area rugs or wall treatments. The Salon2 were in our previous home which had wall to wall carpet and was extremely dead sooooo there goes THAT theory.
No I will not be posting more pictures so you'll just have to use your imagination. The room is 22x16x10 rather larger than most have here judging by the cheap gear I see talked about.
The room trends towards being slightly dead rather than lively.

 

[brianedm]

judging by the cheap gear I see talked about.

How not to win friends and influence people 101. Insulting their gear!

 

[Irvrobinson]

Of course that picture does not show the area rugs or wall treatments. The Salon2 were in our previous home which had wall to wall carpet and was extremely dead sooooo there goes THAT theory.
No I will not be posting more pictures so you'll just have to use your imagination. The room is 22x16x10 rather larger than most have here judging by the cheap gear I see talked about.
The room trends towards being slightly dead rather than lively.

I agree, there goes that theory. BTW, your room size, especially in volume, is not all that special.

From the onset one would think you'd be an interesting source of comparative speaker information, having owned so many different high-end speakers, but the way you come off here doesn't build confidence that your opinions would have any transferable relevance. You have got me curious about the Bryston, only to hear what the hubbub is all about, and on that point we agree - it is difficult to have a conversation without first-hand experience. On the other hand, your proclamations about the nature of your own experience and expertise, your unqualified assertions about what is good and what isn't, and your use of meaningless audiophile jargon, don't build credibility as a source of *useful* information. Even assuming some of your tonal balance arguments are accurate in your room, some of your other assertions, like the Bryston's sound-staging being such a revelation, just don't hold water. In fact, it makes me wonder how you made speakers like the 207/2 or the Salon 2 image so poorly that the Bryston could be a revelation.

Some of your comments do fall in line with comments I've heard others make, like, for example preferring the Salon 1 over the Salon 2, or not being all that impressed with the Wilsons (any Wilson), but all of your other black and white assertions, laced with implicit insults about the inability of the rest of us to make good decisions, make me wonder if any correlation to what I've heard previously is random.

You've certainly livened things up a bit, Stedanko, but you don't persuade. I was actually looking forward to your input at first, now I'm just wondering who you're going to insult next, and how you're going to tell us that we don't know how to listen, or that we don't know what live music really sounds like.

 

[Stedanko]

I agree, there goes that theory. BTW, your room size, especially in volume, is not all that special.

From the onset one would think you'd be an interesting source of comparative speaker information, having owned so many different high-end speakers, but the way you come off here doesn't build confidence that your opinions would have any transferable relevance. You have got me curious about the Bryston, only to hear what the hubbub is all about, and on that point we agree - it is difficult to have a conversation without first-hand experience. On the other hand, your proclamations about the nature of your own experience and expertise, your unqualified assertions about what is good and what isn't, and your use of meaningless audiophile jargon, don't build credibility as a source of *useful* information. Even assuming some of your tonal balance arguments are accurate in your room, some of your other assertions, like the Bryston's sound-staging being such a revelation, just don't hold water. In fact, it makes me wonder how you made speakers like the 207/2 or the Salon 2 image so poorly that the Bryston could be a revelation.

Some of your comments do fall in line with comments I've heard others make, like, for example preferring the Salon 1 over the Salon 2, or not being all that impressed with the Wilsons (any Wilson), but all of your other black and white assertions, laced with implicit insults about the inability of the rest of us to make good decisions, make me wonder if any correlation to what I've heard previously is random.

You've certainly livened things up a bit, Stedanko, but you don't persuade. I was actually looking forward to your input at first, now I'm just wondering who you're going to insult next, and how you're going to tell us that we don't know how to listen, or that we don't know what live music really sounds like.

Really don't care how I come across that's how I am like it or not. Not trying to persuade anyone to do anything I simply have said these perform to a very high standard but apparently $6500 is considered expensive on this forum I am sorry if my idea of expensive versus performance doesn't jive with what others think on this forum.
I would assume many regularly attend live acoustic performances such as your local orchestra because many certainly have very strong opinions about how things should sound.
I would also hope people have at least auditioned high end speakers even if they do not own them in order to have a starting point to indulge in an intelligent and cogent conversation about proper sound reproduction.
For those on a budget I'd suggest listening to the KEF LS50 which I use in my computer system with a Calyx 24/192 DAC and a Cary SLI-80 great sound for about $5000 in total.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Really don't care how I come across that's how I am like it or not. Not trying to persuade anyone to do anything I simply have said these perform to a very high standard but apparently $6500 is considered expensive on this forum I am sorry if my idea of expensive versus performance doesn't jive with what others think on this forum.
I would assume many regularly attend live acoustic performances such as your local orchestra because many certainly have very strong opinions about how things should sound.
I would also hope people have at least auditioned high end speakers even if they do not own them in order to have a starting point to indulge in an intelligent and cogent conversation about proper sound reproduction.
For those on a budget I'd suggest listening to the KEF LS50 which I use in my computer system with a Calyx 24/192 DAC and a Cary SLI-80 great sound for about $5000 in total.

$6500 for a pair of speakers is up there in price, at least upper-midrange, on any forum, and your $5K budget system is not a budget system even for one-percenters. I'll resist a tangent about the Cary.

As for feigning a lack of interest about trying to persuade us of your position, you've got be kidding. It has nothing to do with liking you or not, you've put a lot of energy into arguing with some people here, so I think you do care what we think. You do, or you wouldn't be here. I'm only telling you that rather than coming off like an experienced expert, which I believe you think that you are, you're coming off to me like someone who has more wallet than knowledge, and I doubt that's the impression you really want to make.

 

[Stedanko]

$6500 for a pair of speakers is up there in price, at least upper-midrange, on any forum, and your $5K budget system is not a budget system even for one-percenters. I'll resist a tangent about the Cary.

As for feigning a lack of interest about trying to persuade us of your position, you've got be kidding. It has nothing to do with liking you or not, you've put a lot of energy into arguing with some people here, so I think you do care what we think. You do, or you wouldn't be here. I'm only telling you that rather than coming off like an experienced expert, which I believe you think that you are, you're coming off to me like someone who has more wallet than knowledge, and I doubt that's the impression you really want to make.

I don't care if you listen to any of the speakers I have owned but when anyone who hasn't at least heard them then claims to have an opinion it is quite ludicrous. To try to engage when one has no point of reference is silliness taken to a Pythonesque LEVEL.
I do not care about making a good OR bad impression I've laid out my opinion of these speakers, speakers nobody here has heard, and compared them to other good products I have owned. If it's benefits somebody great if not well I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.
I've been doing this a long time and I don't need "buddies" or reviews to validate what I hear.