Pure Direct vs Stereo

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Recently RichB, who owns Revel Ultima Salons, Voice, Studio, Marantz pre-pro and now ATI3005 amp, says that he could hear improvement going from Stereo mode to Direct & Pure Direct mode. I had said I didn't believe him.

Direct mode bypasses the Audio Tone Circuit (Room Correction, EQ, DSP). Pure Direct also bypasses some video circuitry.

Well, I have to say I stand corrected. I say RichB is right and I was wrong.

My AT6012 amp is powering my Linkwitz Orion speakers (Quad-amp) and dual RBH SX-1010N subs (bi-amp) and paired with my Denon AVR-5308. I've always listened in Stereo 2.2 mode with my Orion+RBH system. But I changed to Pure Direct 2.2 (Subwoofer output) mode last night. Speakers are set to Small, Sub set to THX Ultra2, SP2MIX, LFE+Main, XO 80Hz. I don't know what's going on and I don't care, but I totally absolutely love this "new" sound.

There seems to be improved clarity, articulation, and authority in the lower, mid, upper bass region and midrange. In acoustic songs like "Say Goodnight" by Beth Chapman, "As I Lay Me Down" by Sophie B Hawkins, "A Thousand Years" by Christina Perri, "Troubled Mind" by Catie Curtis, etc, I could hear more articulation and clarity from acoustic guitars, kick drums, and vocals than before. I love it.

So thank you, RichB, for getting me to this new point.

 

[gmichael]

If you have your room acoustically set up well, and don't need the LFE output, then pure direct can be an improvement over the added processing involved with stereo 2ch mode.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you have your room acoustically set up well, and don't need the LFE output, then pure direct can be an improvement over the added processing involved with stereo 2ch mode.

Denon & Marantz actually allow simple bass output for subwoofers even in Pure Direct mode.

Pure Direct bypasses the audio tone circuit (Room Correction, EQ, DSP) and video circuit, but I assume it still uses DAC, crossover, and speakers and subwoofer outputs.

The PD/D 2.2 mode clearly sounds different than Stereo 2.2 mode.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Denon & Marantz actually allow simple bass output for subwoofers even in Pure Direct mode.

Do all Denon and Marantz receivers do this? I have Marantz SR6006 and in Direct/Pure Direct there is no subwoofer output. Is it possible to fix this??

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do all Denon and Marantz receivers do this? I have Marantz SR6006 and in Direct/Pure Direct there is no subwoofer output. Is it possible to fix this??

Set speakers to Small, XO to 80Hz or higher, Subwoofer to LFE+MAIN.

On Audio 2Ch/Direct setup, set to CUSTOM, speakers Small, Sub to LFE+MAIN, XO 80Hz or higher.

My Denon 3312 can also do this, so I assume all Denon & Marantz can do it, but not 100% sure.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Set speakers to Small, XO to 80Hz or higher, Subwoofer to LFE+MAIN.

On Audio 2Ch/Direct setup, set to CUSTOM, speakers Small, Sub to LFE+MAIN, XO 80Hz or higher.

The first one is basically my setup already.

I don't have a menu for Audio 2ch/Direct setup though. So I wouldn't be surprised if some models can't do this.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The first one is basically my setup already.

I don't have a menu for Audio 2ch/Direct setup though. So I wouldn't be surprised if some models can't do this.

Which model do you have? We could look up the manual to see if there is a setup for AUDIO 2CH/DIRECT.

So your Sub is set to LFE+MAIN?

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Thanks for your help in this. Model is Marantz SR6006, I don't see any menu to setup direct/pure direct. Everything I've read says that in either of these modes user/Audyssey settings are overridden, L/R are set to large and the crossover is disabled.

Yes, sub is LFE+main.

 

[3db]

Recently RichB, who owns Revel Ultima Salons, Voice, Studio, Marantz pre-pro and now ATI3005 amp, says that he could hear improvement going from Stereo mode to Direct & Pure Direct mode. I had said I didn't believe him.

Direct mode bypasses the Audio Tone Circuit (Room Correction, EQ, DSP). Pure Direct also bypasses some video circuitry.

Well, I have to say I stand corrected. I say RichB is right and I was wrong.

My AT6012 amp is powering my Linkwitz Orion speakers (Quad-amp) and dual RBH SX-1010N subs (bi-amp) and paired with my Denon AVR-5308. I've always listened in Stereo 2.2 mode with my Orion+RBH system. But I changed to Pure Direct 2.2 (Subwoofer output) mode last night. Speakers are set to Small, Sub set to THX Ultra2, SP2MIX, LFE+Main, XO 80Hz. I don't know what's going on and I don't care, but I totally absolutely love this "new" sound.

There seems to be improved clarity, articulation, and authority in the lower, mid, upper bass region and midrange. In acoustic songs like "Say Goodnight" by Beth Chapman, "As I Lay Me Down" by Sophie B Hawkins, "A Thousand Years" by Christina Perri, "Troubled Mind" by Catie Curtis, etc, I could hear more articulation and clarity from acoustic guitars, kick drums, and vocals than before. I love it.

So thank you, RichB, for getting me to this new point.

Its possible that you don't like what Audessy is doing with the room correction. What I'm confused about is you are restating what you've already mentioned many times before...that you prefer no room correction.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Its possible that you don't like what Audessy is doing with the room correction. What I'm confused about is you are restating what you've already mentioned many times before...that you prefer no room correction.

Direct/pure direct is different than no room correction. Turning Audyssey off or using "bypass L/R" still utilizes a lot of the processing in the receiver (besides just room correction). Direct and Pure Direct bypass these additional processing steps giving a sound that is closer to what is on the source.

 

[j_garcia]

For music I pretty much always use Direct. Occasionally, presumably because of how they are encoded or how the Oppo sends them, I get things like DD that show up as "multiPCM" on the UMC so I have to use Direct mode for them in order for it to give me proper m/c audio.

 

[cpp]

Its possible that you don't like what Audessy is doing with the room correction. What I'm confused about is you are restating what you've already mentioned many times before...that you prefer no room correction.

He most likely can't afford room correction after buying those 801's

 

[RichB]

Recently RichB, who owns Revel Ultima Salons, Voice, Studio, Marantz pre-pro and now ATI3005 amp, says that he could hear improvement going from Stereo mode to Direct & Pure Direct mode. I had said I didn't believe him.

Direct mode bypasses the Audio Tone Circuit (Room Correction, EQ, DSP). Pure Direct also bypasses some video circuitry.

Well, I have to say I stand corrected. I say RichB is right and I was wrong.

My AT6012 amp is powering my Linkwitz Orion speakers (Quad-amp) and dual RBH SX-1010N subs (bi-amp) and paired with my Denon AVR-5308. I've always listened in Stereo 2.2 mode with my Orion+RBH system. But I changed to Pure Direct 2.2 (Subwoofer output) mode last night. Speakers are set to Small, Sub set to THX Ultra2, SP2MIX, LFE+Main, XO 80Hz. I don't know what's going on and I don't care, but I totally absolutely love this "new" sound.

There seems to be improved clarity, articulation, and authority in the lower, mid, upper bass region and midrange. In acoustic songs like "Say Goodnight" by Beth Chapman, "As I Lay Me Down" by Sophie B Hawkins, "A Thousand Years" by Christina Perri, "Troubled Mind" by Catie Curtis, etc, I could hear more articulation and clarity from acoustic guitars, kick drums, and vocals than before. I love it.

So thank you, RichB, for getting me to this new point.

I just came across this post.
Your welcome !

LFE + Main and Pure Direct also work for those who want to use their speakers full range.

What a pleasure it is have folks actually try these things and hear the difference.
I am considered a fringe character on the AVS.
There folks over there with speaker like the B&W Diamond 800's who say they cannot hear the difference.
I do not know what to think of that.
It is reasonable to have a preference, but not hearing the difference I don't get.

- Rich

 

[TLS Guy]

Recently RichB, who owns Revel Ultima Salons, Voice, Studio, Marantz pre-pro and now ATI3005 amp, says that he could hear improvement going from Stereo mode to Direct & Pure Direct mode. I had said I didn't believe him.

Direct mode bypasses the Audio Tone Circuit (Room Correction, EQ, DSP). Pure Direct also bypasses some video circuitry.

Well, I have to say I stand corrected. I say RichB is right and I was wrong.

My AT6012 amp is powering my Linkwitz Orion speakers (Quad-amp) and dual RBH SX-1010N subs (bi-amp) and paired with my Denon AVR-5308. I've always listened in Stereo 2.2 mode with my Orion+RBH system. But I changed to Pure Direct 2.2 (Subwoofer output) mode last night. Speakers are set to Small, Sub set to THX Ultra2, SP2MIX, LFE+Main, XO 80Hz. I don't know what's going on and I don't care, but I totally absolutely love this "new" sound.

There seems to be improved clarity, articulation, and authority in the lower, mid, upper bass region and midrange. In acoustic songs like "Say Goodnight" by Beth Chapman, "As I Lay Me Down" by Sophie B Hawkins, "A Thousand Years" by Christina Perri, "Troubled Mind" by Catie Curtis, etc, I could hear more articulation and clarity from acoustic guitars, kick drums, and vocals than before. I love it.

So thank you, RichB, for getting me to this new point.

I certainly can't duplicate that report.

I did a careful trial using Source direct , Pure direct and stereo. I also did trials using the Marantz 8003 crossover to feed the the low pass below 60 Hz to the four 10" drivers versus my analog crossovers. I can change this latter instantly at the flick of a switch.

I could tell absolutely no difference between any of the above.

I suppose if there is an effect, which I highly doubt, then it might be due to the crossover. In my system only the low pass section of the crossover is used, not the high pass. If I use the low pass filter of the Marantz AV 8003 then if there is an LFE signal present it is captured. If I use my analog crossovers entirely, then the LFE signal is not captured.

However I have never been able to detect a difference. So I only use my analog crossovers for playing multichannel SACDs via the &.1 multichannel inputs.

I highly doubt this effect is real, if it is then your units have very poor DACS and or processor.

I can also detect no difference if I have my Marantz decode a CD, or use my professional RME Fireface 800 decode it.

So if you really are hearing a genuine difference then you need gear with better processors.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Its possible that you don't like what Audessy is doing with the room correction. What I'm confused about is you are restating what you've already mentioned many times before...that you prefer no room correction.

As JonnyFive says, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Audyssey.

As the title says, it is about Pure Direct vs Stereo Mode. Pure and simple. Straightforward. Nothing between the lines.

I've always used Stereo Mode 2.2 mode in the past bypassing Audyssey. Now I'm using Pure Direct 2.2 mode.

 

[fokakis1]

Denon & Marantz actually allow simple bass output for subwoofers even in Pure Direct mode.

Pure Direct bypasses the audio tone circuit (Room Correction, EQ, DSP) and video circuit, but I assume it still uses DAC, crossover, and speakers and subwoofer outputs.

The PD/D 2.2 mode clearly sounds different than Stereo 2.2 mode.

My Onkyo bypasses everything but the DAC as far as I can tell. It even turns off the display. I too can tell a slight difference between Pure and Stereo modes, even with RC and EQ/tone controls turned off in Stereo mode. Too bad Bass Mgt. is disabled and I don't have the Pure/Direct 2.2 option, only 2.0.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So if you really are hearing a genuine difference then you need gear with better processors.

I serious doubt your Marantz has better processors than my Denn AVP-A1HDCI & AVR-5308CI.

And while we're speculating, I could also speculate that perhaps your speakers aren't truly great enough to benefit.

.....Which you will unequivocally disagree.

I could also adopt a new policy: people who disagree with me or can't experience the same thing my brain experience must have poor components or they just simply don't know.

But I believe I will just keep my old policy: every case may be different and I should not discredit or belittle anyone (or his components) even when we disagree.

What's the saying - YMMV?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just came across this post.
Your welcome !

LFE + Main and Pure Direct also work for those who want to use their speakers full range.

What a pleasure it is have folks actually try these things and hear the difference.
I am considered a fringe character on the AVS.
There folks over there with speaker like the B&W Diamond 800's who say they cannot hear the difference.
I do not know what to think of that.
It is reasonable to have a preference, but not hearing the difference I don't get.

- Rich

I really thought I could not tell a difference in the past and played it down like most people. I swore it many times. But perhaps it depends on the speakers, processors, or just a slight different setup somehow that we just don't think about. I certain don't think my AVP-A1HDCI or AVR-5308CI both have defective processors.

 

[RichB]

I certainly can't duplicate that report.

I did a careful trial using Source direct , Pure direct and stereo. I also did trials using the Marantz 8003 crossover to feed the the low pass below 60 Hz to the four 10" drivers versus my analog crossovers. I can change this latter instantly at the flick of a switch.

I could tell absolutely no difference between any of the above.

I suppose if there is an effect, which I highly doubt, then it might be due to the crossover. In my system only the low pass section of the crossover is used, not the high pass. If I use the low pass filter of the Marantz AV 8003 then if there is an LFE signal present it is captured. If I use my analog crossovers entirely, then the LFE signal is not captured.

However I have never been able to detect a difference. So I only use my analog crossovers for playing multichannel SACDs via the &.1 multichannel inputs.

I highly doubt this effect is real, if it is then your units have very poor DACS and or processor.

I can also detect no difference if I have my Marantz decode a CD, or use my professional RME Fireface 800 decode it.

So if you really are hearing a genuine difference then you need gear with better processors.

Most folks discuss the sound of a player or preamp in terms of the DAC's.
Most DAC's are fantastic and well implemented should not sound significantly different.
However, the analog stage, opamps, power supply probably matter more these days.

I have the BDP-105 hookup up to the Marantz AV8801 via COAX (digital), HMDI, XLR, and 7.1 analog for testing.
My Pronto has been programmed to quickly switch between them and they all sound different.
The largest diffidence is between HDMI and all the others. For LCPM music, I prefer the 7.1 analog outs.
They have the best soundstage and sound fuller.

I am not trying to pass a double-blind test and most are so good, I am not sure I could, but I think I could.
I have done a single blind test with my wife and she also picked the 7.1. Of course, she might have been reading my gestures were I only shook my head up and down for them

- Rich

 

[3db]

As JonnyFive says, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Audyssey.

As the title says, it is about Pure Direct vs Stereo Mode. Pure and simple. Straightforward. Nothing between the lines.

I've always used Stereo Mode 2.2 mode in the past bypassing Audyssey. Now I'm using Pure Direct 2.2 mode.

Doesn't pure Direct by pass Audessy? On my Yamaha, Pure Direct eliminates all post processing like bass management and room correction, hence the confusion.Also Stereo mode on my Yammmy still uses RC and bass management. See my next post on this thread. You will understand why I was confused. This thread made me re read my owners manual.

No worries mate. All is clear now.